has anyone else done this?

[tmiforaday]

name changed for this. since having 7mo ds i have become increasingly pissed off with h's slack approach to domestic tasks. basically he refuses to accept responsibility for any of them and would live like a pig given half the chance. i know this is true because i saw his flat before we moved in together.....before ds i was happy to do the lion's share, and could nag him to pitch in a bit at weekends. however, the workload has increased so much and h is just not doing his fair share.

i feel like i've tried everything. i have nagged, shouted, cried, remained calm, got angry, done everything (am not prepared to do nothing, i can't live in filth) gone home to mum, written to him and talked to him. all with minimal improvement.

he will watch ds whilst i have a lie in occasionally. this weekend i got two lie ins whilst he minded ds, but that's all he does, ie nappies aren't put in the bin, dishes don't go in the dishwasher , the place looks like a bomb's hit it.

so i'm going on sex strike. i'm hoping it's the one thing that will get his attention. nothing else gets taken seriously. has anyone else tried this and has it been / not been successful?

[angel1976]

TMI - I've been thinking about your thread too and I agree with you that for you both, getting a cleaner might not help as I think there are more serious underlying issues than just physically doing the chores but that is the way it has manifested itself if you know what I mean!

You got me thinking about DH with your thread as well and I wanted to really think if we have more underlying issues than just someone doing chores. For us, I think we do quibble about stuff but I think the chores issue is also very separate to other issues we may have with the relationship so getting a cleaner for us has taken a lot of stress off the both of us. We are both happier not having to worry about cleaning the house on the weekend and DH seems to be a lot happier to play with DS and in a better mood generally (so am I come to think of it!) but I agree it may not work for everyone. Good luck whatever you do.

[vezzie]

tmi:

i don't want to raise another boy that thinks that women are domestic slaves whilst men work hard and then turn into children when they get home.

I think this is absolutely crucial - this is a much bigger issue than just the here and now.

I am thrilled and honoured and daunted myself by the power of what I do every day has on the next generation.

[tmiforaday]

hello everyone, thanks for the responses. i thought about this thread a lot!

the sex strike didn't last very long - i am a soft touch really. i have to say though, the stepford thing did strike me in a lot of responses to my post.

why should i have worried that my husband would 'go elsewhere' if i didn't put out? i had made myself abundantly clear as to why i wasn't interested. there was no game playing going on, he has been informed in person and in writing on numerous occasions that his lack of domestic support will eventually erode our relationship.

this is what worries me, that eventually i will give up and leave him and it will be too late. i don't want this to happen. he is a lovely man, funny, generous, kind, infuriatingly amusing at the wrong times, but also immature, lazy and he refuses to take this issue seriously. i thought that hitting him where it hurts (so to speak) would be just another way to get my message across. i didn't provide mumsnet with a list of the jobs that i do around the house, and am not really interested in having a competition over who works hardest, i believe that we should be a partnership, but one of us is not pulling their weight. why should one partner have more relaxation time? why should one job have a lower status because it brings in less money? doesn't care for our child have a greater intrinsic value anyway?

i would consider game playing to be hiding my motivation for not sleeping with him. he has never been in any doubt. he chooses to believe that i have gone off him despite evidence to the contrary because it suits him. i do feel disrespected because my partner (who trusts me to make all financial,social and family decisions for us) refuses to take me seriously when i say that he needs to grow up in this respect.

thanks for your responses, there have been some interesting points raised - but i'm not convinced that getting a cleaner will answer the underlying issues - (financially we can just about afford it, but why should we - we are both fit and can do it) and i don't want to raise another boy that thinks that women are domestic slaves whilst men work hard and then turn into children when they get home. it's not very sexy!! maybe a sex ban isn't the answer, but neither is 'you knew what he was like when you married him'!!

anyway, i don't like all this name change hassle, so will prob go back to being myself from now on, but thanks for the feedback and the supportive answers that i enjoyed!!!!

[poshsinglemum]

You could always see if it works!

[vezzie]

OptomistS said:

"Looking back on it, the lack of help with housework was merely yet another symptom, to go with the many instances of non-physical abuse that together embodied a deepseated lack of respect that pervaded our whole relationship."

the people who think that the OP withdrawing sex will lead to emotional withdrawal from the relationship haven't recognised that his failure to recognise her needs amounts to withdrawal of respect which is far more damaging; and she is not talking about artificially quelling her desire for this overwhelmingly fabulous man just to make a point, she is just talking about not putting out any more to please him as one of her many tedious demeaning and yucky duties.

Supressed anger about domestic things is recognised by psychologists as one of the most common causes of loss of libido in women. No one ever talks about this outside the profession.

OP - don't have sex if you don't feel like it - he might leave, or he might try to fix things, but you don't want to be a slave anyway, do you?

[OptimistS]

wildandfree, I think you hit the nail on the head with "and I meant it". It is a fundamental lesson in life to learn that if you issue an ultimatum, you have to be prepared for both results. Otherwise, it is just a threat and can backfire badly. I worry that once you get into this 'tit for tat' territory you run the risk of emotionally withdrawing from the relationship, and ultimately that's a death sentence for a happy relationship. Also, you can end up losing your self-respect as you end up gameplaying and becoming as bad as each other. It can cloud the issue considerably.

I know everyone's take on this is different, and I realise that standards of tidiness/cleanliness can vary enormously between individuals. However, I am personally of the opinion that not pulling your weight regarding housework displays a complete lack of respect for your partner. Solidgold posted an interesting link about 'the politics of housework' on another thread. I'd advise everyone who thinks the OP is over-reacting to read it.

I accept that some people may not think about it - thoughtlessness is not the same thing as deliberate selfishness. However, I don't think the OP's DP can use this as an excuse as OP seems to have made it more than clear... I also don't subscribe to the view that specific tasks need spelling out. If he can't work out that a used nappy needs to go in the bin, he's a moron.

I will admit to having personal bias on this. Lack of help with housework after the birth of my DTs was a contributing factor to the breakup of my relationship, although it was the violence and threat to kill me that finally did it. Looking back on it, the lack of help with housework was merely yet another symptom, to go with the many instances of non-physical abuse that together embodied a deepseated lack of respect that pervaded our whole relationship. I have no patience with this anymore. The next man I live with will have the intelligence, motivation and consideration for others to pick up his own socks and put them in the washing basket. It's not rocket science and I want a partner, not another child to look after. I've never expected anyone to pick up my socks! Why should a man expect any different?

[wildandfree]

I think a sex strike is a very good idea. It's called the law of natural consequences. He is not even trying to consider your concerns, therefore you will (temporarily) not consider his needs. It's called pulling away - it works very well when dating and it works in relationships too. People become complacent, they think they can do anything and get away with it no matter what. People can and do change - my other half had a bit of a work addiction which was affecting family life. In the end I pretty much said I was putting on my walking boots - and I meant it. Guess what - big huge changes in everything. Be prepared to walk away if you feel that your partner is taking the p* - believe me, they will have a thousand times more respect for you and it keeps them on their toes. Perhaps an admirer in the wings too - seriously, compacency is such a TURN OFF!

[angel1976]

My DH's best friend's wife contacted cancer a few years ago and she said it was the making of him in the sense that he was a real Jack the lad before. As she was going in and out of hospital and have treatment etc that limited her contact with her children, her DH was forced into a more active housekeeping role.

Of course I am not saying get cancer or something like that but I do think that sometimes it takes a life-changing event to change a person, no amount of nagging, shouting, screaming etc will do it otherwise. I would love my DH not to be lazy and I've tried everything like the OP said. So now I take the stance that it's fine if he doesn't want to do anything as long as he earns enough to get someone else to do it! You can't win them all!

[HolyGuacamole]

I know not everyone can afford a cleaner but the OPs DH has offered that as an option.

[lighthouse]

Not everyone can offord to pay a cleaner

[HolyGuacamole]

Yep, get a cleaner. If he was untidy before, he won't be changing and if you stop tidying up, he likely won't be bothered as it's not something that's ever been on his list of priorities. Is it pure laziness or is it that he is just not a person who feels the need to have the house like a new pin?

Trying to get him to 'up' his standards is maybe as fruitless as if he were trying to get you to decrease your standards of tidiness in the house.

I'd drop the idea of using sex as a tool to control him too, that will have a detrimental effect on your marriage and what do you do when that doesn't work? Although I can totally understand that if you are pissed off with him, then sex is not high on your list of priorities either.

You won't change this man and you might spend the next 'x' amount of years trying in vain. If I were you, I'd just get the cleaner and be done with it. I would however as a way of compromise, give him basic duties that are his and his only - maybe putting the bins out, putting his washing in the basket (ie, if it's left on the floor, it doesn't get done) etc.

[NotPlayingAnyMore]

It doesn't matter how it started - the point is it's there now and still needs doing now. Anything else is letting H off the hook.

I don't think you've "made your bed" any more than your H has - no pun intended. You knew what he was like, but he also knew what you were like: someone who likes things to be done. Why is it always the woman's fault?!

"admittedly, am mning whilst ds naps instead of having a shower at the moment." - but you're having to sacrifice time you'd spend on maintaining yourself for any leisure time, just like I used to have to

I'd agree with withholding sex, purely because otherwise I'd just feel as used as I was regarding the housework.

Tell him what needs to be done and if he doesn't do it, put the ball in his court by asking him why he is disrespecting you by making you do both shares of it and also why he thinks you'd want to have sex with someone who didn't have that respect for you.

[funnypeculiar]

I absolutely agree that if a cleaner is on offer, then you should go with that. And as others have said, bringing sex into it sounds counterproductive to me.

But, I don't go with the 'you knew he was a slob, you just have to deal with it" line. Once you have a child, dynamics in a relationship need to change - there is more stuff to do, and it's not fair to expect the whole responsibility to fall on one partner.

Have you tried asking him why he doesn't do it? I wonder if he feels that you are asking for the unreasonable (if your standards are much higher, then half of what you are asking may seem completely OTT)

Could you suggest that he decides what he is prepared to take responsibility for? And what would help him feel like he still gets his own time (eg one lie-in each a weekend, one night out on his own every two weeks/month/whatever is reasonable to you)Then hold him to it.

I also think that a lot of new dads don't realise how exhausting/non-stop childcare + housework can be. Could you go away for a weekend/day and let him see how much there is to do? (Seem to remember a mner challenged her ds to do everything she did one day with some interesting results...)

[lighthouse]

Dont cook for him, do his washing or anything. If he cant do it then why should you. I wouldn't put up with that. Any realtionship is a two way venture.

[angel1976]

tmiforaday - I know others have said this but honestly, GET A CLEANER! I know you think it won't make much of a difference but it will... My DH is lazy (no two ways about it) and I knew it before I married him BUT that doesn't make it better or think you can change him... But my DH does work hard (too hard sometimes!) so we can have a nice life - he pays our mortgage and our bills, just bought a very nice bag for me etc while I work 4 days a week and have a much needed off day in the middle of the week with DS.

After endless arguments about housework, we've got a cleaner. I don't mind doing the things like cooking, putting dishes in dishwasher and washing and ironing (like I said, DH does long hours and my job is less stressful and less hours) BUT I cannot face having to do the rest of the house as well. It's expensive getting a cleaner in once a week but I am paying for it (as my income is all disposable and it's both our money) so we can enjoy our lives when we are both not working and NOT worrying about who's going to do the vacuuming next... Good luck!

[cestlavielife]

get a cleaner

[tmiforaday]

ok, last post for the day on this. thanks for the advice - much appreciated.

i feel like i have tried variations on all of these themes - detailed instructions on what will help , drip feeding requests for help, agreements on dinner once a week - they have suceeded in varying degrees. but if i don't keep it up, he doesn't. (i mean the help here) and i find it exhausting to spell it out when it's easier to do it myself.

i know what i have to do - we are married, i am in it for the long haul, i need to be more patient. rome wasn't built in a day and my dh won't change overnight. am just pretty frustrated at the moment as it feels very one sided!! i can guarantee he's not on dadsnet right now trying to work out how to stop me cleaning or give him more blow jobs.

[whatanothernamechange]

Wasn't "flaming" you tmiforaday. Hope you manage to work it out. I wasn't suggesting you use sex as a reward either, just that I noticed that my H was more amenable to helping after sex and that it made me feel better too. I agree you should keep the sex thing separate. You've had some good advice on here especially about trying specific requests. And I don't think anyone was saying you've made your bed now lie in it, or suck it up. I note you say he should "make the dinner unprompted" does that mean that he does it if asked? because mine will say "yes later " and not do it, or would just look at me incredulously if I actually asked him to make the dinner. There may be a little compromise needed in the form of you asking him, if he will actually do it when asked.
Hope you are ok.

[iwouldgoouttonight]

I sympathise with you, my DP can be a bit of a slob not the tidiest person in the world. His flat was bombsite when he used to live alone. I've kind of accepted that my level of tidiness and how often chores are done is always going to be different from his, but we have eventually come to a kind of agreement where he does some chores (admittedly less than me) but I'm happy with it now - DP tends to do more childcare related things and cooking dinner, and I do more of the cleaning type things (in an ideal world I'd rather cook than clean but at least I'm not doing both!). The only way we got to this point though was to keep talking about it (boring I know!). I don't think DP was being untidy to be lazy or nasty, he just genuinely didn't seem to see or mind the mess or understand how much it stressed me.

I've not tried the sex strike thing, although DP does now know that him sitting about while I clean up around him doesn't give me an uncontrollable urge to ravish him! The problem with withholding sex might mean you create another issue and maybe more problems. If it was me I'd keep the two things separate, if you want to go on strike stop doing his washing, cooking his meals, etc so when he has no clean shirts and nothing to eat he might realise how much you do.

[KTNoo]

I don't think it would work tbh.

We had these issues too. It's particularly bad when dcs are small and you are knackered, they don't go to school yet etc so you have no time. It gets better for you, but that doesn't mean my dh helps more. In fact I think he does less now, as his job is more demanding than when the dcs were very small. However I don't work - if I did I think we would get a cleaner.

I find that vague requests such as "You need to help more" don't work. I had more success by being specific, e.g. "Could you please do the dishes tonight?" or "Please could you make sure every nappy goes in the bin?" I have to ask several times, but if you ask nicely and directly he won't perceive it as nagging, and in time he should get used to doing certain things. Bit like training a dog really.

We always had the deal that dh would do the bath/bed routine (if he's home, which he isn't so much these days). It means I can get the cleaning up from dinner done in peace, and I actually don't mind as it gives me a break from all the yacking and fighting.

[Overmydeadbody]

Withholding sex won't work.

It won't change him.

The only thing that will change him is him wanting to change.

[tmiforaday]

ok, going to leave thread for a while, there is a touch too much of the 'made your bed now lie in it' mentality, and it's not helping! overwhelming advice seems to be that i should just be a good housewife and suck it up - literally or metaphorically.

thanks though!

[amisuchabadmummy]

Have a cleaner twice a week. And get her to take the ironing away with her and bring it back too.

[sandcastles]

So he already feels like you have gone off him & now you are actively going to withhold sex?

Dangerous, imo. He is already insecure & you are going to be fanning the flames.