Need to speak with someone or I'll explode!

[rushour]

I wasn't quite sure where to post this, but considering this issue may affect my relationship with my boss, I thought this was the most appropriate thread.

Last week in a 1:1 with my line manager, (who is really lovely, very approachable and we get on well) told me that the director of the company has been very critical of my grammar. I could tell she was feeling rather uncomfortable talking abt it, so she ended the conversation very quickly by saying they will offer 1:1 support with an external PR / Comms colleague.

I had to disguise my real feelings of utter
shock and just nodded my head in acknowledgement and said it was fine. I actually wanted to burst into tears and I've been withholding my feelings abt it ever since. I can't even bear to bring myself to talk abt it with my husband. I don't think i've ever got quite so worked up abt anything before in my life.

Its really knocked my confidence and I?ve never felt so inadequate before about something that is essentially a key life skill and I?m annoyed, because I?m thinking how on earth have I got through the last 10 years of my professional career? Why wasn't it ever picked up sooner by anyone else?

I graduated with a 2:1 (1st for my disseratation) 3 years ago and maybe I'm somehow justifying that my grammar can't be that bad surely, to have got through uni as a mature student and to have worked in a middle management position within local gov for several years.

I've been with my present company since jan 07 and because of this issue, i'm now questioning:
a) are my grammer skills really that poor? b) is she nit-picking
c) whether I can actually fit in with this company, because i'm not upto the standard required
d) i'm in denial and actually, there is a big issue with my grammar?

Would really appreciate your thoughts on how best to approach this. I welcome any support I need, but should I discuss my feelings with my manager? What will discussing this even achieve?

[StealthPolarBear]

Do you work in a line of work where grammar, spelling and writing style is particularly important?
I'm trying to put this politely...but can't...lots of the 'professional' (hope I've spelt that right) people I know make basic spelling and grammar errors that wind me up, sure I do too, obviously I don't notice them. All of them have customer facing roles, some of them even have specific communication roles. It used to shock me, but it must be normal. From your MN posts (which I realise isn't a lot of text) I would expect you to be as good or better than most, so unless you work in editing / comms, I'm amazed that it's a problem.

[queenrollo]

I'm working with under 11's in a private tutoring practice, and we do worksheets with our students on nouns, pronouns, verbs adjectives, punctuation and spelling etc. I'm 33, had a grammar school education and English has always been my strongest subject. It's only been this last year that I've realised I was not taught any of this at school. My dp works for the Civil Service and has a very high standard/understanding of the written word and we often have discussions about how something I say or write isn't correct. He recently wrote an important document, and when it was proof read they took out all the split infinitives.(made me chuckle when he told me) Personally he isn't bothered by their usage, but because this document was going to be in the public domain his department were very particular that it had to be written correctly.

It sounds like you are dealing with this in just the right way, and it seems that a command of perfect grammar is not as common as it should be.

(i am informed I'm supposed to use 'you are' if it is written down, apparently the use of the apostrophe should only be used if you are quoting directly as it applies to speech.........life is too short unless i'm being paid a lot of money to get it right )

[BecauseImWorthIt]

I would also establish if by grammar they actually mean spelling and punctuation.

I confess that poor spelling is something that annoys me (I admit that I am a pedant! ) and if stuff was going out from my business with basic spelling errors in it I would want to do something about it.

Equally, apostrophes in the wrong place ("it's" when it should be "its", or "your" instead of "you're") are a common problem.

So when you next talk to your boss you need to get her to be very specific with you about exactly what the director means.

[Ozziegirly]

FFS "Grammar"

[Ozziegirly]

I used to work with a solicitor who was very intelligent, well spoken etc, but her written grammer was terrible. She never knew how to apostrophise, would get "they're" and "there" mixed up, everything.

We are also 30 and I had to carefully teach myself how to use correct grammer and I'm sure I still get lots of things wrong (but I live in Oz now, so no one cares )

It's terrible that I did English A Level, a degree and a post grad degree and just then I changed the word "appalling" to "terrible" as I realised that I wasn't sure I knew how to spell "appalling".

[huggymummy]

I'm with the posters - might be style rather than grammar (and your post looks fine to me), in which case I'd question their communication skills as they are two very different things.

I think writing is a difficult issue. I've worked with very high profile people who have said my writing (which has appeared in the public arena) and grammar are brilliant and in my current - post birth, having not worked for a few years and now in a little role in a back street company - post, my boss is questioning my writing skills where his written communication ends up in confusion and often wrath from clients, and my communication ends up with clients engaging with me.

Just hold your own. If you've got the confidence ask what the issues are and ask to see how they correct your work - you'll see if it's grammar or style - if it's grammar you'll catch them out - if it's style ask for clarification and policy on house style (bet they can't produce it).

JUST HOLD YOUR OWN. Sounds a bit stupid to me.

Modern communication is less about grammar and more about clarity and engagement - I'm sure you're absolutely great.

[Bink]

If you do want a grammar pointer ... feel free to hate me but anyway it might be helpful ...

see that "the client's picking up the errors"?

Now, with "picking up", EITHER you're deliberately using a gerund or verbal noun in which case, well done, it takes the possessive - BUT your firm doesn't only have one client, so it should read "the clients' picking up the errors" - and what you mean, put differently, is the "the picking up of the errors by the clients", hence the possessive; OR you're not using a gerund, in which case you're using a simple plural, and if you put an apostrophe in a plural, well, to sticklers like the company director, that would be a problem.

[rushour]

More, i asked the very same question. I don't think it was an issue before, until now. I must've been making consistent mistakes and due to my client profile (highly literate ppl) they were more concerned abt the client's picking up the errors.

Most of the people I work with are much older than me. Say 20 years and educated differently too. I think they find these things more noticeable and feel the need to change it, more so than perhaps my generation? I don't know, but I feel so much more at ease talking about it. I know my grammar isn't that bad, but prob needs polishing up.

[more]

What I find strange is that you have worked there since January 2007 (hope I got that right!?) , I would want to know why it has not been brought to your attention earlier?

[jamescagney]

I knew it! (hugs herself with delight, I knew your boss was a woman).
my line manager makes mistakes in his emails to me but petty ol me finds them amusing but never so much as when as a new IT colleague (First day)emailed to say that our server would be down for a bit and apologised for the incontinence (sometimes spell check should never be used).
tbh you come across in your messages as thoughtful, educated and considered.

[rushour]

The conspiracy theories are making me smile.

Believe me, there is nothing fishy going on here. It?s a small company. We're not commercially driven and I passionately believe in what we do. My contribution, no matter how big or small, is always valued. I?ve had an unbelievably positive experience (compared to my previous job in local gov) and this is the only criticism I?ve received.

This was an informal meeting and I agree WW, abt (btw - I NEVER use txt speak at work, only on mumsnet, mobile phone and when blogging) how it could?ve been handled better or differently, but I don?t know how really. It?s so personal and a highly sensitive subject. Examples could?ve helped and I?m sure now that we?re all aware of the issue, they?ll be more constructive in their feedback. This will really help me to pinpoint the issues, rather than how I was feeling insecure abt everything I wrote!

I actually think the mistakes I make are down to sometimes proof reading too quickly and missing something obvious, as Poobah said, probably more of a visual / concentration issue.

It?s interesting to read abt the generational issue and how grammar was taught differently or in some cases not at all.

I tried telling DH, but kids kept interrupting, so I?ve put it off. Sharing my experience and feelings with you, has helped me enormously. Thank you so much.

The Dover Sole on the F word looks delicious. I'm feeling hungry?

[WinkyWinkola]

I'd be far more critical of the way this issue has been handled by the OP's seniors than grammatical problems.

[Bink]

Oh, and re-reading, I see that your line manager was passing on a comment from the director, so she may not have had any idea of whatever it was that bothered him. It might've been something like writing

Yours Faithfully

(that capital F is wrong NB)

which is so easy to put right - by someone with the right attitude - once it's been pointed out. Or similar.

She also may not have the standing in the company to insist that he give specific examples. But if she can't do that, she shouldn't be passing on the criticism.

[EffiePerine]

good point - may well be style rather than grammar

I know from reviewing other people's work that I tend to pick up on overly wordy or complicated language rather than obvious errors - both are 'wrong' in context

[Bink]

This is an interesting one!

Are you sure that this person actually meant problems with your grammar - as in knowing when to use "who" & when to use "whom", & not putting in inappropriate commas, & so forth - or is the issue, do you think, more generally about your writing style, as you say you were employed for?

As I find it hard to imagine this sudden huge meeting called on the basis of grammatical errors ... grammatical errors are detail, basically; they involve colleagues sending things back to you with red pen marks in them - or they certainly should, before they reach some kind of formal disciplinary sounding meeting. And it would only merit a big meeting if those hints were (a) being given; and (b) getting ignored, in a way that looked like deliberate.

But style, in the larger sense, is a vaguer thing and I can easily see problems with that being brought up in this sort of clumsy way. So, yes, ask for some specifics on the errors, and say, all politely, that you'd welcome feedback as and when they spot anything, so that you can put the details right & learn from each mistake - rather than them letting it fester into a meeting-worthy problem.

[EffiePerine]

Whether there is a problem or not, I'd take advantage of her comments and go on a copywriting type course or a brush-up on grammar? I think a lot of companies are offering this type of course now because so many of us weren't taught 'proper' grammar and so on at school (me included). It isn't necessarily a big problem, there may just be a few things that you can do to make your writing more clear and concise, which will only help in your career

[kerryk]

interesting that you are 30 and feel you were never taught proper grammer. i am 26 and feel exactly the same way.

my parents actually went into my school and asked why i was in the top set in english yet my grammer and spelling were terrible, they were told that we were not marked down on these points. i even managed to get a 1 in standard grade english

i dont bother much on here but i come out in a cold sweat when i have to write something official. i usually e.mail things to my mum and get her to proof read it for me

[frumpygrumpyhasPMT]

Well, I'm pleased you spoke to her and came out with a fairly good result. Good for you and I bet you feel proud of yourself! And yes, a slight delay of a few days was good. If there did happen to be anything going on then they know you will stand up for yourself.

I guess we have to wait and see......

You have posted a number of times here today and there ain't nowt wrong that I can see!!!!

I hope you can tell your DH. I think thats important too.

Keep us posted xxx.

[beanieb]

Do you work in an environment where a lot of communication is done through the written word?
Perhaps you just need to brush up on some business grammar?

Try to see it as a positive thing. I once sent an email out to all staff and someone responded to point out all the bad grammar. I was mortified but grateful because at least I was able to send out future emails without the same mistakes.

[youknownothingofthecrunch]

Sounds really petty of her. If you're worried (and you clearly are) go and buy this book it is hilarious and tells you everything you need to know!

[Poohbah]

That should read "or a problem" see I do it all the time...I have some visual loss or it could be the wine before 7pm.

[Poohbah]

You communication skills seem really good in that you've communicated the issue really well but did you mean to spell about as "abt" like you have repeatedly in your first post? Also I noticed that you have used a ? instead of a ' in a few words aswell.

Is abt text speak? Is that what she means by generational?

Is this really a grammar problem of a problem with you skim reading what you have written and not realising that you have made errors?

It could be visual problem or a concentration issue rather than a grammar problem but she's right to draw your attention to it.

Just a thought....

[Creole]

WW - I am soo with you, I was reading this and hoping someone would say so. Is your company having difficulties? Are they laying off people? Sorry, I smell something fishy here and I think you need to investigate - covertly of course.

I probably have really bad grammar (and so are loads of my colleagues, we work with data though), but no one has ever "pulled" us up on it.

Thinking of you....

[WinkyWinkola]

Well, I guess. All still seems very lame to me. Especially judging by your writing on MN.

Nobody should make somebody feel that they are not good at something without examples of their failings. It's not constructive.

I'm glad you feel better but I think there's something else going on here TBH.

[rushour]

Hi there, i have just spoken with my line manager and she sensed from my reaction, that I wasn't happy. She has no specific examples to show me, but the next time i write a report or draft an important email, she will point out the errors.

She feels she handled it badly, because she didn't know how to and should've come prepared with examples. TBH, i'm glad she didn't come prepared, because at the time i was in such complete shock, that spending more time on the specifics would've really knocked me off the edge!

So, i'm glad I left it a couple of days and had time to reflect, before I spoke to her about it more openly today.

I'm feeling much better now, altho there is still a sense of embarrasment and my confidence is a little dented. Its not something I want to go round telling everyone about I suppose.

My manager thinks it could be a generational thing. Like you said, frumpygrumpy, i'm not even sure I was even taught grammar properly. What really stood out from our chat was her belief in my ability and sees the potential in me to progress further up the ladder, but doesn't want the grammer issues getting in the way, which is why she wants it addressed. Then it made me think, that they're not nitpicking, they genuinely want to help. I must be making consistent errors and working for clients who are very literate, i'm sure it will become noticeable over time.

So i suppose, they're really trying to help me to improve my skills and that can only be a good thing, huh?