Uninvolved Dad-can you help me

[teenmum]

Apologies in advance for a very long post but I hope that by giving some background someone might be able to help me.
I have never discussed my situation with anyone-friends or family-partly out of loyalty to my husband and partly out of embarrassment.

We have been together for nearly 30 years and have two sons aged 16 and 9. Much to my sadness we have never had what I would consider a proper family life. My husband has refused for the past decade to go on any form of family holiday and we haven't had a family day trip in all that time. This is not because of lack of money but because he feels the boys are too badly behaved and he doesn't want anything to do with them.He says he wishes we had never had children although at the time it was a joint decision. When I was pregnant the first time he was fine for the first four months and the announced he had changed his mind. He offered me no support at all and spent the pregnancy planning his escape route. In the event he stayed and we were happy enough after 5 years to try for another baby
The boys behaviour is fine. They aren't angels but they are good company and generally cooperatve. Other people seem happy to be in their company I now go on holidays and outings (UK short breaks not the Maldives)with other mums and our teenager is a great help.

My husband has suffered from depression over the years but has refused to seek treatment. Eventually last year he was prescribed anti anxiety drugs and he took early retirement from work (another major source of stress)He has outside interests (not lap dancing clubs thankfully but badminton and a pub quiz.These are sacrosanct and cannot be missed.)At the mpment he is spending half the week at our seaside caravan and coming home to go out in the evenings.

Of late the situation has deteriorated further and my husband barely talks to our teenager. Days go by without him saying a word to him. He has stopped having any involvement with the younger boy-no parents'nights,sports days etc.Our older boy is now acting as a dad substitute supervising homework and packed lunches.

Having thought I had come to terms with our situation I now find myself becoming saddened and resentful.The financial burden for the boys also falls on me. My husband has never bought a pair of shoes or a birthday present.
Generally I am quite an optimistic person and try to concentrate on the good things in my life. Lately (and I am pre menopausal)I am weepy and despairing.
The boys do not know explicitly how their father feels although the older one is aware that his dad is unusual. The younger one cleaves to me because he has experienced more recent rejection.

Anyway I am writing to ask if anyone has any experience of this type of situation and any ideas on how to cope.
Thanks for reading this far. Sorry to cast a dampener on Father's Day.

[PuppyMonkey]

Crikey, this sounds awful. It really does seem like a mental health issue to me, this isn't a normal way of life for someone. So sorry, can't be more helpful, but just wanted to say good luck and hope someone else comes along who can tell you what to do.

[MrsJonnyDepp]

Not meaning to sound uncaring and appreciating that depression changes people. But whats in this relationship for you and your boys? - and wouldn't you be better of without him?

[peggotty]

Oh that is such a sad situation for you all - I'm so sorry for you.

Obviously your dh's depression plays a major part in this, it sounds like he has completely emotionally detached from his children - what is he like with you? What is his relationship like with his own parents/father?

[laidbackinengland]

Are you happy in your relationship with your husband ?

I'm guessing that your DH wouldn't agree to it - but maybe some family therapy might be useful. If he wouldn't go, maybe you could go with the kids for a few sessions and talk about what it is like in your family. This might seem a bit heavy handed - but growing up with a unspoken of, latent feeling of rejection from a parent , can be quite damaging.

[laidbackinengland]

an unspoken

[peggotty]

tbh I wouldn't worry about 'being loyal' to your dh and seek some rl help for yourself at least. He is not loyal to you and your children by being so emotionally detached.

[BlueBumedFly]

My goodness how terrible for you. I agree with PuppyMonkey, it does sound like a mental health issue but as far as I can see it his behaviour, be out of intent or not is affecting the way the boys are developing. You say that you have never spoken about it out of loyalty for your husband but what loyalty is he showing you?

You are one brave lady to have come this far but does he deserve to have all your love and understanding? It seems that you do all the work and your teen has become a young carer which is hard for him. I am sure it will make him a lovely young man, however you don't want him to become resentful over what should be a great period of growing up.

How dreadful, have you spoken to your GP about getting professional help for yourself as you could really benefit from some form of counciling, allow yourself to speak openly and frankly about the situation with someone who does not know you and can allow you to make some decisions for you and your boys? Your teen sounds just lovely, good for him that he has your wonderful caring attributes and not his father's.

How can you move forward? What is your greatest wish? That he moves out for good? That he gets more/better treatment? What would YOU like to happen? Honestly?

Sending you an e-hug xx

[teenmum]

Thankk you so much to everyone who has taken the time to read my post and respond. I feel very emotional never having discussed my situation before but I also feel better for having broken my silence.
In answer to the various questions
I don't have high expectations from my marriage but we have shared interests as a couple and he has been faithful and supportive (for example when I was made redundant he was amazing)
I don't want to separate and until recently I thought I was minimising the damage to the boys.He would never move out and I don't feel the situation is bad enough (yet)to merit moving the boys with all the disruption that would cause. I know from his attitude to money that he would not willingly offer financial support.
Both his parents are dead. I don't think he ever had a conversation with either of them.He was ill for a lot of his childhood with a chronic skin condition and was frequently hospitalised from a young age He has two brothers whom we see once a year.
My husband spent most of last summer in bed prior to finally seeking medical help.In the event I went down to his GP surgery in tears and his GP made a home visit to prescribe the anti anxiety drugs. He stopped taking them after a couple of months but they definitely helped. He doesn't actually "believe"in mental illness and would never in a million years go for family therapy or counsellingalthough this has been offered. I think part of my unhappiness is that I thought his gradual recovery would benefit all of us.In fact things are worse although he is happy to spend time with me.
He is now very selfish although in the past he was willing to put his family's needs first. Now his hobbies and "peace and quiet"come first.
I will definitely take up the suggestion of speaking to my GP

Thank you so much again. It is very true what they say about the kindness of strangers

[clam]

Oh dear. I'm so sorry to read of this and how unhappy you must be. You've suffered this semi-marriage for 30 years.... do you want the next 30 to be the same? I guess not, so maybe you've finally come to the realisation that you want to do something about it. Well done. Can't be much more help other than to say good luck. There is help out there for you, and a happier future. And well done for raising what sound like 2 lovely boys, technically single-handed.

[BlueBumedFly]

Please come back and post again if you want to once you have spoken to your GP. I really hope that you can get some help, you are one special lady for putting up with all of this.

[slug]

Have you considered what the imapct on the boys is? I just wonder if the role model of the detached father is going to influence their behaviour with their own children. Do you want your sons to repeat this pattern?

[squishy]

Oh teenmum, I am sitting here with tears in my eyes. You have been so brave, I cannot imagine what it must have been like not to have someone share those "aren't we clever", "how lucky are we", "aren't the boys wonderful" 'smug' parent moments. He has missed out - I think it's terribly sad - for him but more so for you and your sons.

I understand completely what you mean out of loyalty to him - you don't want your nearest and dearest slating him (you still live with him) and, in my experience, I don't want them questioning why I put up with stuff etc... but do you have a support network that can help you? Imagine you must need some help for your peace of mind and sanity xxx

[becaroo]

This is so sad.....

As a child/teenager I nursed my mother through 2 nervous breakdowns and general depression and - as perhaps with your older child - became more of a parent figure to my siblings (which they resented and it has coloured our relationship since then).

How very sad for him to have missed out on his children and how awful for you - you are, basically, a single parent.

I get very angry with people who refuse to seek help when something is so obviously wrong - and I have suffered with bad PND myself and so can see both sides of this - It is selfish and ultimately very harmful.

I am sorry to sound judgemental - I know I do! - but as I say I have experinced both sides of this issue both as a victim of a parents depression and as a sufferer myself -and I have to ask you.....what benefit do you (or your children) derive from having this man in your life? Perhaps if you did leave he would see how bad the situation really is?

You sound like someone who just tries to cope and get on with things for your childrens sake, which I can completely understand, but maybe thats why he doesnt realise how unhappy and dysfunctional this situation is???

I really wish you all the best....I hope your dh realises that mental illness afffects 1 in 3 of us at some point in our lives and it is not a stigma or anything to be ashamed of - there is a lot of help out there for people willing to try x

[teenmum]

Thanks to all of you for your support. The past few days have been a revelation to me. I had never even considered going for counselling but have made an appointment to see someone. Knowing I will be able to talk in confidence has given me a great deal of strength.
I am now realising how far from normal our life is. I genuinely had no idea that other parents took mutual pride and delight in the achievements and progress of their children.This has not been part of our life for a very long time. This realisation has made me realise that I can't continue for the sake of the boys when the situation is actually detrimental to them.
Sorry if this seems so blindingly obvious but I have been so isolated I have lost touch with what family life could be/should be like.
Thank you so much to everyone.

[Doodle2U]

Best wishes teenmum. You and your boys deserve so much more, so much better than this.

[becaroo]

Best wishes to you and your boys...you are taking the first step - always the hardest. Do let us know how you are doing from time to time x

[Kally]

teenmum... been there done that. Your situation really made me think of my ex. But he had an affair and altho we carried on and even had another child, he was never really into his children. My sister once said to me, as she knew the situation, its as if he feels the kids are a by-product of the marriage. I was very central to him, and altho I adored him as much and we didn't have kids for 8 years into our marriage, it all changed after I had my DD1. He was ok at first, but after a while he started to sleep on the sofa, eat different times... just small things that made him get distance from mine and my daughters relationship (once she was toddler stage). Then I had another baby, and basically I was left to it. He worked, I admit, but would disappear after work to friends and I'd be searching for him etc. He did not like the 'family home' and all the mess noise and lack of privacy it offered anymore, and I knew it. I didn't have anymore children after I realised that, although I always wanted more. But I felt he couldn't cope and I did most of the childraising, everything really, he did nothing. We went abroad to live, when the kids were youngsters, 4/6yrs, he had his affair. We kept it together but he was so smart at distancing himself from responsibilities of being a parent, I ended up doing it all. The kids DO suffer from this. I had another baby 11 years later when I was 41. It came as an enormous surprise and I nearly didn't go through with it til he said.. 'don't have another one'...in that whiney voice like they were some sort of fattening cake...I did, I had her for me and that may sound selfish but me and the kids (now older) adored her and enjoyed her like a present. He excluded himself as usual. They are unable to realise the fulfilment and enjoyment kids give. They are still kids themselves, unfulfilled kids.
I am divorced now, happy,adored by and with my three children who have grown into good responsible adults. DD1 doesn't talk to her father, DS1 has a chilled relationship with him, and DD2 can't be bothered with him at all. The man is quite alone in his own making. I feel sad for him, and try to get them to be more tolerant and care for him, but they say, your reap what you sow. I am not saying that in a sarcastic way. But he never GAVE them any parenting, he was just another figure in the house. Sorry it was so long, but I know where you are coming from and have experienced similar

[teenmum]

Thanks so much for this Kally. I really appreciate what you have said.
I don't think my husband would have an affair. In a way it would be better if he did because I could then understand his rejection of us.
I understand what you are saying about the noise/lack of privacy etc. I have had this said to me so many times over the years.
Last night my husband described our teenager as "unpleasant,uncommunicative and not a pleasure to be with". Talk about pot and kettle!

[MuthaHubbard]

Am going through something slightly similar. H and I separated 6 months ago but for the past two years or so I've noticed that he was distancing himself from our eldest (13 ds). Just little things like talking dd (5) out for the day without him, not really speaking to him or paying him much attention.

Since our separation this has gotten worse, and ds has now noticed that his dad never talks to him or does anything with him to the point where, for the past couple of months, he say's his dad doesn't like him .

H will ring and ask to speak to dd but not ds. When they go to his to stay, he'll play games/involve dd in jobs etc, but will not involve ds. When I was doing some extra hours and he was staying with dc, he even sent dd to school with a packed lunch and ds without!!!

This saddens me as when ds says 'dad never speaks to me' I feel like saying well he never spoke to me either! I also remember how much more involved H was with ds when ds was younger. Seems as soon as ds got into double figures age wise, H has just left him to it.

Sorry, just wanted you to know you are not alone. I know my situation is different, but I can understand how upsetting and hurtful it can be when your dc are treated in this way.

[GryffinGirl]

this is very familiar to me teenmum, but as someone in your DC's position. My father sounds exactly like your husband.

My dad had a totally uncommunicative relationship with his own parents and a sister he never saw, which I am sure had an impact, but he needn't have followed his parents. He was completely uninvolved as parent to my 2 sisters and me, although we were wanted. We got in the way of the things he loved - playing golf, going to pub quizes. My dad sufferes from depression too, although it took him YEARS (until i was 16) to seek help or get medication. He hated the intimacy of family life and the effort he had to put in. His social life was sacred to him - it was his "escape" and, in his view, his "right" to have some time for himself after working hard all week, but he was NEVER home unless to sleep. His social life meant he was out every night of the week and all weekend. No mention of my mum having any me time, when she was working full time and bringing up three kids and doing everything for us on limited money - his social life was expensive anf if it was a toss up between clothes for us or having another round of drinks at the golf club on him, we had to make do and mend.

We never, ever did anything as a family. I'm racking my brain right now to remember any day trip we did or outing we did as a family or with his taking me anywhere. My dad generally went on holiday on his own and if he came with us, he did his own thing. He didn't come to any netball matches, school plays (my sister was very talented, always the lead) - he even ate his meals at different times, in a different room and always behind the newspaper. He even failed to turn up to my 18th birthday party ("I forgot"), even though he was supposed to bring all the drinks for the guests. We had cups of tea.

What I am saying is that, as a kid, we noticed all this and understood that he wanted nothing to do with us. We felt surplus and unloved. I often wondered what it would be like if it was "just us four" without him. have you ever spoken to your Dcs about this? How do they feel about their dad being so distant?

Like Kally says "you reap what you sow" and your DH has to put somehting in or he will get nothing out. My dad couldn't see that he had an unhappy family life, a poor relationship with his kids whom he avoided at all costs because he did NOTHING to bond with his children, be part of family life and treat his wife with a bit of love and respect. My dad was having affairs all the time, unsuspected by my mum, and they split up.

It sounds like your DH's depression and his own upbringing has contributed to his behaviour, but it is also because he has chosen not to contribute or get to know how wonderful his DC's are. Your teen sounds like a great older sibling to your younger one

[teenmum]

Thanks again for these helpful posts. I have been careful what to say to the boys over the years as I have been trying to limit the damage and hoping that things would improve.
DS 1 thinks is Dad is "a bit weird"but would not like us to separate. He is worried about his brother who will soon realise that Dad is not like other Dads.
I have tried to reassure DS1 that his Dad's behaviour is as a result of his mental health and not in anyway a reflection on DS1.
DS1 has a lovely girfriend,a good circle of pals and a thriving social life. He does voluntary work and is looking for a Saturday job. His future lies away from the house and I am fairly confident that he will be ok. I mentioned to him about going for family therapy and he is keen on the idea.
Financially a separation would be very difficult and would mean a change of house,schools and a reduced standard of living. I think all contact between my usband and the boys would cease.
I am seeing a counsellor on Monday. I have asked my husband to come but he refuses. He thinks that his behaviour is normal and justified and he is full of contempt for "hands on" Dads (and Mums too for that matter)
Oh dear it doesn't sound too good does it?

I would love to know Gryffingirl if your dad had any regrets later in life? You seem to have turned out mature and insightful despite him.

Muthahubbard I am very sorry for you in your situation. At least both my children are equally ignored.I think my husband is jealous of our teenager and I think there is a mid life crisis aspect too. He is 52 now and turned 49 when things got noticeably worse for us.Maybe this might apply to your ex?

Best wishes and thanks to you both. I will post on Monday after my counsellor appointment.

[ggglimpopo]

Teenmum - what about you? Do you really want to be in the same place in 5 years time? 10 years?

Is he going to be like this with grandchildren?

We all deserve to love and be loved - to be able to laugh, cry and share with our partners. You don't have a partner, you have a (part time!) flatmate.

Good luck with the counselling.

[GryffinGirl]

ggglimpopo has a good point teenmum - what about you? what do you want? It sounds like you have to act as a single parent with no support - what happens when your DCs are older and leaving home?

teenmum - no, I don't think my dad has ever regretted not being involved in family life. He wasn't interested and he found it irritating and stiffling - he always does his own thing even now. He thinks he was a decent enough father and that he did his job by providing for us. He has said recently that he was unhappy for years living at home with "us" (not "in his marriage"). It was only partly his depression. Like you, I think my mum knew that if she left, he wouldn't bother with regular contact and she would be, financially, up sh*t creek, so she stuck with him until he left her and she regrets that.

One thing i thought I would mention is that, occasionally, my dad would try to do something "parental" which usually involved him deciding he ought to be a father, meaning he wanted to exert some authority and for his view to prevail (he was not usually an authoritarian, to be fair). But when he did, we deeply resented him interfering in our lives when he knew nothing about us, even though he lived in the same house. It would cause a lot of tension and huge arguments. I don't know whether your husband is ever like that?

[citylover]

This sounds like my exH. He ate meals alone, poured scorn on other families, parents in general and also that he didn't really want children. Hated family life and diminished my attempts to create one. It never felt like we were bringing up DCs together and now of course we are not.

Work came first, followed by socialising after to relieve the pressure of work.

My oldest is beginning to notice it now including his fakery/superficiality. He does see them, I have had to really nag him to stick to our agreement and he reminds me of a distant uncle rather than a father.

The irony is that he is now with someone who has a very strong family (perhaps he would rather latch onto one than create his own) and is about to become a father again (not at all planned).

Yes thinking about it maybe it was because he came from a very dysfunctional family and he couldn't for whatever reason create his own (my family is small and not very close) but really wants it so joins someone else's.

[citylover]

PS teenmum

my exh is always banging on about how badly behaved our two DSs are and is constantly threatening withdrawal of visits because of this and also did not want to go out together when we were together because of thsi.

IMO they are fairly average but he just couldn't see that. Seems to be embarassed by them.