Angry, tired and tearful

[ItCameUponAMidnightClara]

First, thanks to anyone who reads as I don't really know where to start so think this will be a bit of a garbled mess.

I am just feeling so lonely, and alone right now. The two people I always thought were good for me - my DP and my mum - are both pissing me off no end in their various ways.

I've posted about DP before but things have moved on, not sure where I stand with him anymore. Our DS is nearly 7 weeks old and DP is finally bonding - in fact he's great with him. When I watch him chattering away to DS and playing, there's a moment where my heart melts, I love DP again, and can imagine having a whole bunch of babies with him.

Then reality kicks back in and in my mind I pack and leave and imagine being happy on my own - I don't think DP likes me as a mother. He (still) hates me breastfeeding and I'm getting angry about it. I feel like he has ruined it for me and I can only be greatful that I've not had any problems bf'ing as if I had I don't know how I would have coped - and so I just hope I don't come into trouble as 7 weeks is still so early... I will never breastfeed in front of DP's family because I am starting to not want to do it in front of him. And I don't think I'll ever have the confidence to do it in public so feel like my time out of the house is really restricted.

DP should have supported me and it pisses me off that after 7 weeks he hasn't found it within himself to be a bit bloody self-analytical and ask himself what his fucking problem is, and sort it out. Instead he claims to not know why exactly it bothers him, just that it does.

He has asked me for two things: end dates for breastfeeding, and co-sleeping. DS is in with me and DP hates this too and so is on the sofa. I bought a 'spare' bed so he could be comfortable but he refuses to use it - I think this way, the sofa is 'temporary'. I might be able to put DS in a bedside cot, but cannot imagine moving him to his own room for as long as I am doing night feeds - feeding in the night is quite nice at the moment, why would I choose to end it?
As for breastfeeding, I didn't know how I'd find it, if I'd want to do it, and now I am I love it, I don't want to commit to stopping at say, six months, as when DS is six months he and I might both be enjoying it still so why should I say that's when I'll stop?

These two things are becoming real sticking points and lead to conversations that run into arguments where DP goes on about hating that we have no time together, I reply that he is welcome to sleep in our bed but chooses not to, and I'll shout at him that this is what having a tiny baby is like, but try to remind him that DS is only going to be so tiny for a short time, there will be a structured bedtime at some point, but we're all still finding our feet... We keep deciding to split up, then getting sad and saying we still love each other so will try to stick it out. This is happening about once a week.

Today when we went through this bloody routine again, DP said first that he dreads coming home from work a bit in case DS is crying, and wonders if I'll pass DS to him as soon as he's through the door - don't think I've ever done this actually, but DS is settled so quickly by DP when he is agitated and I sometimes have trouble calming him down. I thought DP enjoyed being so 'good' at this, IYSWIM. He also said he can't wait each evening for me to take DS to bed so he has some 'me time'. So now I'm going to spend evenings paranoid that I should be going to bed earlier to get out of his way.

The reason I'm upset with my mother is that she so readily sympathises with DP - I can see some merit in some of what he says but he is supposed to be on my side - isn't that what mothers do? She always plays devil's advocate, about anything - she was the same when I was having problems with my boss, always seeing her POV and not mine - I know she means well but sometimes you just want someone to agree with you and acknowledge that you're hurting and that it's valid.

She also ignores me when I talk - today I was trying to explain what DP said about coming home and she was cooing over DS at the time - I know she's a besotted Nanna and I love that she loves DS so much but she was here to chat to me so the least she could do is listen when I talk. It's not as though she was in a hurry, or that I was interrupting her.

And she keeps criticising my parenting - she is super supportive of breastfeeding which is great but she thinks I should put a deadline on it, and co-sleeping, thinks that at 6 months on the dot the baby should be in his own room. And holding off weaning until 6 months and not having a rigid routine... she's great in so many ways but when it is clear all I need is some support, why does she have to be critical.

I just don't know what to do. Is my relationship over? I know that it's so early with DS but perhaps having a baby really is the end for some relationships, as sad as it would be. I have it pretty good here. DP earns well in a not-too-stressful job, we have a beautiful house in a nice area, I do not 'have' to return to work next year, and on paper things couldn't be better - but what goes on between two people really goes beyond their circumstances.

I'm not sure if I want advice, sympathy, or a kick up the arse, but I had to get this out as I've really no one else to talk to.

[NineUnlovelyTinselDecorations]

to do with your DS

[NineUnlovelyTinselDecorations]

The noise of BF bothers him so much that he wants you to set a deadline for stopping Do you know, there are going to to be so many times in your DS life where doing the right thing by him is inconvenient, means putting him before anyone else and yes, noisy. Having read all your posts about your DP I am actually rather concerned about his immaturity, jealousy of his own son and most of all - the controlling note. He really wants to be in charge of you, your body and your son, at least that's how it sounds to me.

You haven't been with him all that long have you? Have you been through any testing times before? If so, what was his reaction? How well did you know each other before you got pregnant? And most of all - can you see him changing and growing up, because although you might get over the BF/co sleeping issues, ultimately if this is his personality/general behaviour from now on, you and he are going to be in comfolict over a lot more things to you with your DS, to his detriment and yours.

[clam]

Oh Clara.... I'm so sorry that what ought to be a magical, loving, family time has become so stressful for you. At least DH has admitted his feelings on the subject of BF-ing. I gather they're quite normal (although my DH has always been grateful just to catch a glimpse of my tits, whatever the circs! ), but what matters is how he deals with it. Stick to your guns and don't be pressured into stating -when- the feeding or co-sleeping will finish (when my DH finally carted DS1 off to his own room at 4 months, I honestly felt as bad as if we'd been dumping him on the hard shoulder of the M1! Guess what, he survived! And went into town on his own today, aged 11, to do his Christmas shopping. It felt the same!). If your relationship is rocky (as it seems you regularly discuss splitting up), then it's doubly important you go with your instincts re: your son. He's with you for life - DH may not be!

[ItCameUponAMidnightClara]

Thanks Millie. What hurts in part is that I do expect things to get better eventually and I think I'm a bit bitter that we have to go through this first - that some of this is normal, that other people live through this - it's shit to be honest and I wish we could speed up the healing process.

It's been a turbulent week, very up and down, like every week that came before it. But we had a long chat yesterday and DP finally admitted to feeling pushed out and unwanted - he thinks, for example, that because I like co-sleeping, it means I don't want him back in the bed. Not the case at all. Other things were said, a lot of it's a blur, but that felt like the first time we were really honest with each other in a while.

We're going to try to have a good Christmas - after arguing for two weeks whether to bother at all - I felt like I'd regret not 'doing' Christmas because even though DS won't remember, I will and I don't want his first Christmas to be remembered as a bad one. On the other hand I thought what's the bloody point, will faking it hurt more? But we're going to give it a go, get a tree and some nice food and just try to enjoy being together as a family - which is all I ever wanted.

We need to make time for each other though and that's where we come unstuck - playing pass the parcel with DS for the sake of a few minutes peace while neglecting our relationship completely, until it boils up into a row - lather rinse repeat.

Fingers crossed.

[millie865]

My mother isn't one to think before she speaks either. It's like she's missing a filter between random thoughts that go through her head and saying things. Sometimes she doesn't even realise she's said something outloud (normally when it is something she shouldn't have said!) We've had some horrible rows since I had DD. When I'm feeling good about things I can remind myself that she loves me and means well -when I'm feeling low I just want to scream and run away.

I may be wrong about this but I think the whole noise thing with your DP and breastfeeding isn't the real issue. It sounds to me like he is finding it hard to cope with not being number one on your list any more but because he is either unwilling to admit this, or actually unaware of it, he is trying to find other reasons to justify his potision. Rather than get caught in circular arguements about breast feeding or co-sleeping can you find ways of making him feel like he is still important to you?

The feelings you are describing towards him will be recognised by so many people on here. I was with a group of friends recently and the last one of us to have children, who is now pregnant, was asking for new baby advice. I said 'what no one tells you is that there will come a point when you look at your partner and think 'I hate you, this has all been a horrible mistake'.' She looked horrified, but everyone else laughed and agreed with me.

Honestly it does get better. I feel closer to my DH now than I ever did, but the first couple of months were HARD. Have you got any RL friends who have had children recently you can talk to? Often everyone thinks everyone else's relationship is fine so doesn't want to talk about the problems they are having. It's only afterwards you realise you were all going through the same thing.

[ItCameUponAMidnightClara]

It's hard to find a long enough stretch of time to myself to post. I can't read this thread when DP is around - the suggestion of showing him the thread was a good one but not know I've talked about my mother.

Speaking of whom, we talked more on Sunday and I told her that playing devil's advocate may seem helpful but I need her to be on my side... she cried and said she was sorry but felt so sad that things might be over and that she'd do anything to try to help me. She just wants me to be happy and I know that but she is not one to think before she speaks - hmm I wondered where I got that from .

My mother is a funny one, though. Sometimes she is so compliant with her husband it makes me slightly angry and I wish she'd be a bit more assertive. But that's easy to say - she was a single mum for 15 years so I am used to seeing her as independent, she married my stepdad (who is fab btw) 6 years ago, and of course there does need to be give and take in a relationship - perhaps I am bothered by her 'giving in' at times because I only see her side and don't know what equal sacrifices my stepdad is making? Maybe it's partly age too - not that she is old, or that I think she's old, but I can see as she is getting older she is more cautious and slower paced. Perhaps she's becoming a bit 'traditional'.

DP and I talked again about the breastfeeding thing. He said - and I believe him - that he ha s dealt with the breast issue and doesn't feel weird about that - but is just bothered by the noise. I don't know if this is progress or if I should be even more pissed off. It sounds so ludicrous really but is it that far-fetched? I don't know, one minute I want the throttle him and the next, hug him tight.

I have to cut this short for now, my thoughts aren't really in order here either. It's been a hectic few days, we are all poorly, we've had £430 go missing from our account from the debit card, having trouble with some builders who are working next door and the general chaos of life - we are all tired I think.

[millie865]

Hi Clara
I hope my last message didn't make you feel got at, particularly with your mother taking your DP's side!

There are a couple of books that cover this issue of the transition to parenthood. I think I've recommended 'Babyproofing your marriage' before. There is also 'When parents become partners' which is a reasonably accessible book of a ten year academic study of couples' transition to parenthood. Cowan and Cowan are the authors.

[millie865]

Hi Clara, sorry to hear you are still having problems. Your DP is being a prat - but I don't think that means your relationship is over. Seven weeks seems like a really long time when you are living through it, but is no time at all in the context of a long term relationship. I'd agree with the advice not to make any major decisions for at least a year.

It sounds like what your DP is telling you is that he feels a bit neglected and squeezed out. You would be perfectly within your rights to say 'tough - that's what having a new baby is like', but I don't know if that will help much to be honest. Can you find other ways of making him feel like you still have some space for him that don't involve giving up breast feeding or co-sleeping? Make time to spend together in the evenings, put the baby down in a cot earlier in the evening and just spend some time with your DP cuddling on the bed and chatting.

I don't know what specific answer will work for you, but I do think its worth trying to find something. I know you probably feel like it shouldn't have to be you that makes the effort - but somebody has to and while he is being a prat that probably means you, unfair though that certainly is! in the long term one of the best things you can do for your baby is try to make your relationship with your partner work.

[ItCameUponAMidnightClara]

I love mumsnet - I really do wonder what the hell I'd be doing right now without it.

Thank you all for such great replies - I was reading them on my mobile during night feeds

Colditz I think rationally that makes sense, to not make big decisions for a year, but how many times are we supposed to go around this particular roundabout before one of us goes insane or kills the other? I was all set to leave in the first week, yet there have been times - flashes, moments - where I picture us together years down the line.

I read a wonderful article someone linked to in the pregnancy forum recently about relationships surviving children - it's here - and I think it helped to read that this does sometimes just happen - don't we all, when pregnant with our first, imagine a movie type scenario of our DP smiling while changing nappies and bringing us breakfast in bed and the house being spotless and the baby never crying... lol. Perhaps not that, but you get my drift.

Baby crying so going to try to post later and respond properly.

[HansieMom]

I don't know if I can add anything and yet, I will! First off, your baby is absolutely gorgeous. He's getting the best of care right nowgetting the perfect food that God intended. Your husband sounds SO immature and selfish, main concern is himself. What a juvenile way to think: breasts are for male sexual turn on and that's it! Grow up! I would expect more maturity from a 12 year old. I'm sure many of their moms breastfed younger kids! I breast fed both my sons, one til 10.5 months (he started tugging and playing! Time's up!) and my second son til 14 months. My one DIL breastfed her first but the second had esophageal reflux and had to go on a formula with no milk proteins. My other DIL had trouble getting baby to suck correctly but she pumped breastmilk for six months and they fed him bottles of breastmilk. I like the answer of when you will quit: when he goes to school. And (believe this has been said too)life won't be normal again. He better get used to it. How about letting him read this thread? Instead of bitching at you, he should be taking art pics, Madonna and child type pics, of naked baby lying against your bare breasts. Please oh please make him read this!

I made my DIL's nursing blankets--nice large flannel single layer, about 36" square, with a pocket in one corner that you put a weight in and velcro shut. Weight can be ziploc bag w rice. I was with one DIL at Walmart and she could feed baby while walking down aisle.

I could shake your husband! I'll be English about it: he should take his head out of his arse!

[jenk1]

clara my dh was like this when i had dd, he was jealous of my breastfeeding her and we used to row over it, i didnt give in although it would have meant an easier life if i had, i actually fed her until she was 2.

we are not together anymore, in counselling this week i brought up his reaction when i had dd and was feeding her and the counsellor said he viewed it as a rejection,that he was jealous of the closeness i had with dd, she said a lot of men have trouble with their partners breastfeeding babies and usually its a rejection problem.

i think you are doing amazing, its a difficult time adjusting to a new baby and you have no support at the moment, you sound like a fantastic mum!!!!

[catsmother]

Can only echo what everyone else has said - he is behaving like a petualnt jealous brat. Has he not got it into his head that breastfeeding aside (and no way should you put it aside until you want to) your (as in plural your) son isn't going to go away and play quietly in his room forever more. He will need your attention for a long long while to come and should be getting his dad's attention too.

I really wonder if someone as spiteful as him will settle down and suddenly be loving and supportive just because the baby has his own room or because you stop breastfeeding ? .... because what he's doing is spite. Gawd knows the 1st few months are exhausting and he's done nothing except undermine you, put a guilt trip on you and stress you out at a time when you need any spare energy you can muster just to get through day to day things, never mind worrying about him. I think he's being a bloody self centred tosser TBH.

I have no idea why he's insisting on the sofa .... probably to make himself more of a martyr to anyone stupid enough to listen to his self pitying drivel probably. I've fed 2 children at night and my partner more or less slept through it all apart from when the baby initially awoke. It's not them lying there for half an hour or more trying to keep awake is it - all they have to do is roll over and go back to sleep.

I'm so sorry your mum is being useless and hurtful too. I've noticed that with women of a certain generation, they place great importance upon deferring to the "man of the house", no matter how bloody selfish his demands are. Quite possibly your mum might be doing this ..... I can't believe that any woman would otherwise be so unsupportive to her daughter. Her views on childrearing may be different to yours but she should remember that first and foremost how anyone else does it is none of her business.

Of course, how his son is raised is your DP's business too ..... but only when he can be adult about it, discussing concerns, issues and ideas with you (not shouting at you), and when he's prepared to explain why he thinks such and such might be a good idea. NOT when his demands are in his best interests (only), as opposed to yours and, most importantly, his son's .... and when he can't even properly explain why he's being so draconian.

[NorthernLurkerwithastarontop]

hmmmmmmm been thinking - you had a really rough time at the birth didn't you Clara? Does PTSD describe or explain any of your dh's behaviour - or has he always tended to be jealous?

[mmelody]

Oh Clara, I really feel for you. I have read all your other threads and your story really gets to me.

Your partner is behaving like a arse. he really is. Childbirth/parenthood is so cathartic for people, kind of strips them bare I think and pushes people to limits they didn't know existed. I think what you have found is that you have a strength you never knew existed, but also that man that is supposed to love and care for you is not what you thought he would be in times of stress.

What you NEED right now is some female support. Do you have a friend that you could lean on? Perhaps you need to spell things out for your Mum??

As for breastfeeding and co-sleeping...well it seems to me that the two things that you are in charge of at the moment, he wants to take away!! You are doing a fantastic job and give yourself a pat on the back.

I don't think I could ever forgive my DP if he behaved in this way.

[cazboldy]

clara - hi!
do not feel bad for your dh, he is acting like a spoilt brat of the highest order. You are being level headed and reasonable and he is behaving like a tantruming toddler who hasn't got his own way.
I do feel sad for him though as he just does not see that he is missing out on so much!
you see lots of threads on here about new mums not getting enough sleep or worrying about how their baby feeds etc but you seem like your only problem is your dh!
do you think he is talking about leaving as some kind of threat?

[NorthernLurkerwithastarontop]

Clara - just looked at your pics - your ds is a beautiful, beautiful boy - and you are doing a great job.

[Dropdeadfred]

sorry that should read she not he

[KITTYmaspudding]

I have nothing new to say here. I just wanted to show you my support, for what it's worth.
You sound like you are doing a fab job with your lovely baby despite having another child in the house.
I really hope you are able to stick to your guns {{{hugs}}}

[Dropdeadfred]

Oh dear, I'd hoped things had improved by now...I remeber your other thread...
I'm shocked that your mum is not supporting you. I think you need to speak to her again, maybe without your ds being a distraction (perhaps whilst he's asleep?)

I guess he feels for you both and doesn't want to acknowlege the problem and hope it goesaway and also doesn't want to have taken sides...but she is YOUR mum and should be there when you nee dthe support that you are not getting from your DP.

Whereabouts do you live? Are they any Mnetters near you?

[TheRealMrsOsborneXmasFactor]

It sounds like you are doing a great job.
I started breastfeeding with the attitude that if i could do it great and would probably stop at about 6mths. I eventually stopped when my DS was 11mths old, so i don't think you can set an end date.

We also co-slept and still do which i never thought we would but it suits us all.

Being a new mum is hard enough and i think you do feel a bit like everyone coos over the baby and ignores you a bit. Go with your instincts and do what you think is best for your baby and you'll be a happier mum and have a happier baby.
Maybe given time your DH will relax a bit, having a baby is a big change for every couple.

[gerbo]

Hi Clara - read your message and it made me sad. Sounds like you're not getting enough support at all from either your partner or mum. Could you sit your mum down and subtly explain that you need her on side, and that you sometimes feel undermined by her? She mayn't be aware she's doing it, perhaps trying to smooth things over/help you see both sides. I guess you could also be being sensitive to it as you're no doubt knackered!! Try talking to her. Hopefully she'll start supporting you - she should, you know - you are allowed to expect that!

As for your partner - nightmare!!!!! Read some of your message to my husband, who agreed you should NOT be taking this rubbish. Firstly congrats with the breastfeeding though!!! I had trouble starting but continued trying and understand what you mean when you say it feels good - it's great for baby, bonding and good for you too. You shouldn't have to put a deadline on anything!!!! That's completely outrageous. Keep going - it's your right and noone should tell you not to. Keep trying with feeding in public too - I was really nervous at first. I found buying a couple of proper breastfeeding tops helped - they show absolutely no flesh (try a 'Boob' brand top - fab) and give you a confidence boost. I slowly started feeidng in cafes that were baby friendly, and now have fed on trains/tubes/buses, and in libraries/art galleries (!)/waiting rooms.....I just tell myself my baby's hungry, and if people don't like it, frankly, get over it. BUT - noone's ever ever said anything/done anything - so be brave - you'll be freer. (It's a legal entitlement now too! Noone can chuck you out of anywhere now!)

I'm no relationship expert, but you're taking too much rubbish I think. Noone's perfect, and a new baby is stressful for everyone - remind him of that when he says he dreads coming home - but you deserve far more support. Trust your instincts about the situation. That's the best thing - for you and baby - babies pick on vibes. Better to be single and happy. BUT of course, if it's salvagable, sit down and tell him these attitudes/issues have to stop - about the feeding - get over it - it's natural and healthy. About the sleeping - I'm not a co-sleeper, but have friends who do, and successfully for all concerned. Perhaps let him continue to sleep on the sofa for your own peace of mind.

I send you lots of luck and best best wishes for the future. Be strong. It will get easier I promise (I'm no expert but after a rocky first month with feeding my dd is 8 months old and happy!). All the best.

[Amethyst86]

I have read your other threads but not posted even though I have felt really angry on your behalf and felt so sorry for you.

I think your DP is unbelievably selfish and immature.

I was the same as you about breast feeding before I started and once I had and it all felt so right there was no way that I wanted anyone telling me when to finish it. I hate to say this but I don t think your relationship with your DP will ever be the same again. One way or another things are going to have to move on and change and it seems to me that your DP is having real problems accepting that. He won t go in to the spare bed because at the moment he is hanging on in limbo for everything to get back to "normal" and that is never going to happen because things are never going to be the same again now that you have DS.

When I had my first child DH performed greatly - disappearing for 5 days at a time telling me that he needed "time off from being a father". In short he was totally unsupportive and selfish and I have never ever forgiven him for that. The love of your life is now your DS and these first few weeks and months are so special and wonderful and you will never ever get that time back again and your DP is spoiling it with his selfish attitudes and demands. I don t really have much advice for you tbh. I wanted to leave my DH at the time but I didnt and we stayed together and now have another child - he was MUCH better second time round, although still a couple of disappearing acts - but still at the back of my mind I resent him for how he ruined that special time at the beginning.

I don t mean to be harsh but it seems to me that your DP should be beginning to get a grip by now and beginning to understand that things have changed and thats it. I have read on other posts suggestions that he might be depressed or in shock but I don t think so. I just think he sounds selfish and immature.

Out of all the posts I have read on Mumsnet yours is the one that sticks in my mind. You sound like you are trying so hard to be a good Mum and having to deal with your DP and his selfish attitudes is just spoiling it for you. I would be tempted to tell him to shape up or ship out but only if you really mean it. Tell straight out that there is no time limit on breast feeding. Stop trying to please him because you are not actually being unreasonable in any way. He is. Would you like to tell your child when he is older that you had to stop feeding him because Daddy didnt like it? Because that actually is the truth isnt it?

Can t say anything about your Mum really, although I do agree that sometimes you just want someone to agree with you and not come up with constructive advice. Could you not just say that to her? Thinking of you and hope it all gets better. You sound like you deserve so much better.

[coldtits]

I'd be so tempted to tell him to stop his putrid whining, but hey, I never was very measured.

He is not treating you fairly. Unfortunately you can't make him treat you fairly - but you can ask him to go to Relate.

[jorange5]

You must be very frustrated as what you are doing is for the sake of your baby and he seems to be working against that - although I'm sure he doesn't see that he's doing that on purpose.

I think your DP's views are somewhat common unfortunately and I don't know what (if anything) could alter those. Maybe calmly keep telling him that you are doing what your instincts say are the best for your baby while he is so tiny.

The thing is, if you go along with your DP you will probably start resenting him and that's no good either. I think you need to talk more and tell him just how gutted you are by his behaviour.

[coldtits]

NorthernLurker is right on all counts.