Can a relationship survive emotional abuse?

[MartinLikesBiscuits]

I have been married to DH for 10 years, with 3 children under 7. On the outside our relationship looks very strong, but in reality it has been anything but.

Our arguments usually follow this pattern:

1. I try to explain, calmly and at a convenient time, why X has upset me, X often being something that DH has done/ not done.
   
2. DH tells me that X wouldn't have happened had I not done Y.
   
3. Again calmly, I explain that I feel blamed.
   
4. DH says "I'm not blaming you" and then often tells me that I am overreacting because of anxiety/ post natal depression/ PMS/ PCOS/ basically anything hormonal.
   
5. It then begins to go round in circles and ends up with him keeping calm and me shouting at him, sometimes very badly, and I end up deeply regretting my reaction (especially if it was in front of the children, which unfortunately it has been sometimes), feeling ashamed, and agreeing that it was, after all, my fault. I know that I am in control of my responses, but sometimes I have honestly felt as though I was going mad. There just felt like no other way to communicate with him. It is like talking to fog, he dodges everything I say.
   
   X can be anything, from small things such as housework, but has also been much bigger things, for example DH drove the car drunk after a work event - he said I was to blame because I would have become angry if he hadn't brought the car home (I ended up agreeing with him, and felt that if only I were easier to live with, he wouldn't have done something so dangerous). I put off getting a lump investigated because he said he couldn't take time off work to take care of the kids (he also wasn't happy at me getting family or friends to help) and I was disrupting things for him. Nine months later, when my GP brother told me to get the lump seen urgently, DH told me that he didn't want to be blamed if anything happened to me (the lump turned out to be benign). Again, I felt it was my fault, I should have handled things better and been a stronger person. A close friend died during lockdown, DH was not supportive and when I complained, he said I was too focused on the needs of other people rather than him. The list goes on.
   
   Stupidly, I only noticed this pattern a few weeks into lockdown, as the arguments had become much more frequent, especially after my friend died. It began to sink in that this really isn't normal. I told DH that we seemed to have a real problem, and he went off and did some "research" - I thought to tell me that I was wrong. To my surprise, he came back and told me that he had been emotionally abusing me, that he was appalled with himself, and that he would get counselling to sort things out. Since beginning the counselling he really does seem to have changed, and we have argued much less frequently, although there have been a few bumps. I have begun to feel much happier on the whole and more like my old self. I want the marriage to work, and honestly when DH is not behaving like this, then things can be really good.
   
   However, I am still really struggling with some of the things that have happened in the past. As soon as any source of conflict appears, I begin to feel very anxious and although it has become a lot better, I am still resorting to a defensive anger. This evening, I reacted with anger because DH said something I was worried about wasn't that important, and I began to shout. Our neighbour, who has been away for several months, stopped DH whilst he was outside, and asked him if he was okay. She told him that she had heard me shouting at him several times in the past, and that I should really get some counselling, especially with such young kids at home. I don't disagree, but it hurts to hear someone else say it. DH later apologised to me for invalidating my feelings.
   
   Absolutely no one we know would believe me that DH had been emotionally abusing me. I often get told how lucky I am to have him, what a wonderful man he is (including by the neighbour). I'm a coward, but I worry that if I get counselling that it will only confirm that I am indeed an abusive and difficult person. It's still hard to accept that he is the abuser.
   
   Just feeling quite broken tonight. Has anyone's marriage survived emotional abuse? What helped?

[AlreadyGone44]

I keep coming back to this thread. Id like to think its possible, though it would require a big ongoing commitment and work on both sides to break the patterns. Even taking his epiphany at face value it's very hard to break behavioural patterns like these and he may not have the strength or will to do it. Or you may find that he's done irreparable damage to your relationship and with the best will in the world you may not be able to move past that. If you are going to do this give yourself permission to call time on it at any stage. No matter how genuine his desire to change, you don't owe him anything, if you decide at any point you're done then end it. And in case thus is another gaslighting attempt, write down anything that he does or says or doesn't do/say that makes you feel upset or apprehensive or walking on eggshells or angry or hurts you.

None of this applies to me, because DH won't even admit that he's gone anything wrong. I actually sent that article to DH many years ago. He got angry and told me I was stressing him out at a time when he was already stressed and I shouldn't be bothering him with petty little things. He's done to much damage now for anything to save us. But my mind still falls into that pattern of thinking he's not that bad, then I think but he did this and this..... I'd want to see genuine ownership and remote for his actions. Unreserved apologies when you bring up things that hurt you or if you tell him he's done something new that was hurtful or abusive. Unreserved, no blaming you, no sorry but you did this or you once did that. And counselling for you, yes you need to try to break those patterns if and it's a big if, if you truly want to do this. But I'd focus counselling on working out what you really want and even if you want this whether he's done too much harm. He abused you, you don't owe him anything and you don't owe it to him to try even if he's suddenly had a genuine epiphany about his behaviour.

[Jana756]

'I never realised it was abusive' must be the motto of women who are emotionally abused by their partners - so you're in good company!

It's suspicious that HE came to you with this information though; it makes me think that it's just another way twist things & get what he wants. And before you think 'oh, (name) would NEVER do that'...... part of the emotional abuse is that you've been trained to think that, because it suits him that you think that.

Abusers don't view their abuse as a problem. To abusers, their abuse is a SOLUTION (to problems that they're either unaware of, or won't confront). Why would he want to change - or get rid of - something which is working for him?!

(and abuse doesn't just stop overnight - ever. It takes years of willingness, hard work & commitment BY HIM to change behaviour like that).

Even if you feel that the titles don't apply to you, there are 2 books by a man called Lundy Bancroft which may be illuminating for you:

• Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men
• Should I Stay or Should I Go?: A Guide to Knowing if Your Relationship Canand Shouldbe Saved

The latter also discusses reasons for abusive behaviour & helps you to understand which factors apply in your case (the 4 factors being substance abuse, immaturity, personality disorders & abusiveness as a character trait).

Start paying more attention to his actions and less attention to his words. Frequently the 2 don't match, but the victim is gaslit into believing otherwise.

And counselling doesn't help abusive men become less abusive. It helps THEM, because it helps them become 'better' abusers (i.e. helps them get away with it more / for longer); but it's likely to be detrimental for YOU. The only thing that works (sometimes) is a dedicated Abuser programme.....but it doesn't sound like that's the case.

Lastly, feeling like you live with Jekyll & Hyde is common too. 'Oh, but he can be lovely....SOMETIMES' is another common experience of abused women. It's actually that which keeps you in the relationship, because if he was always argumentative & blaming you, you'd leave, right?! Also look up 'Trauma Bonding' & see if you think it applies to your relationship.

To get a clearer picture of your situation, start by regularly writing down his behaviours - 2 columns, positive & negative, so you can remember what happened (seriously.....this sort of abuse can affect your memory / how you frame events, even when you think it doesn't).
Abused women tend to 'split' their partners into 2 separate people, so good memories & bad memories are literally stored as if they belong to 2 separate men. Integrating these memories is one way of starting to see the situation more clearly.

[MartinLikesBiscuits]

Thank you all again - I really appreciate everyone’s responses, especially those who have been through EA themselves. I feel a little less lonely tonight.

To those who wondered if it’s more an issue of communication - for most of our marriage I have wondered this too. Before our first DC was born I booked us onto a marriage course that focused on communication, but I realise now that all that really came from that was DH learning how to weaponise “I feel” statements - “I feel you blame me for everything”, “I feel you always overreact”, even had a “I feel you need sectioning” a few days after our second child was born. I wasn’t allowed to question that reality because those were his “feelings”. In desperation I once even tried the book The Surrendered Wife - that made everything much worse, and was just a horrible experience. I’ve tried hormonal treatments, self help and anger management books (up until now counselling itself felt like a luxury) - nothing seemed to change the dynamic. DH’s counsellor has told him she believes his behaviour has been emotionally abusive, and it is why communication has never improved. I have to say though that it is incredibly subtle, it was not at all what I thought emotional abuse would look like, and for most of our relationship I have felt lucky that he would stay with me when I’m such a monster.

I don’t know where he started his “research”, but he ended up on a blog called Must Be This Tall To Ride, and I think it scared him, especially when he thought about the future (although I know it was probably for more selfish reasons). I did have to remind him to begin with that he wasn’t allowed to throw pity parties for himself.

What a PP said about learned behaviour seems to ring true for both of us - my parents usually react angrily to each other, something which scared me as a child and which I desperately don’t want for my children. His parents don’t really talk at all about any issues, they live quite separate lives, and FIL never takes responsibility for any hurt he may cause - MIL has just always told me that FIL and DH don’t like criticism.

I don’t know what to do about the neighbour. DH apparently politely told her it was none of her business and that she was making assumptions. He did offer to go and explain properly to her, but I thought that would probably make me look worse and also I don’t really want to share things like that with her, things that I couldn’t even tell my own family (they worship DH).

Thanks again everyone. I’ve told DH that counselling for me must now be part of the healing process, and hopefully it will give me a space to think a little more clearly. I really do appreciate it x

[Ren1975]

OP, it's a stalling pattern. Designed to make you take him back.

Its abhorrent but that is the way is a-neurotypical mind works

[LannieDuck]

Ren1975 I agree - I don't think he's really had a magical revelation. I just can't work out what his game would be when he could have simply denied anything was wrong.

[OverTheRubicon]

There's a big difference from most situations on here that HE is the one who identified the issue. if he owns it and is genuinely willing and able to address it, then it's very different from someone who won't see or acknowledge it.

Agree you should get counselling on your own to work out what you want too.

[Ren1975]

@LannieDuck

First rule of abuse is that abusers never stop abusing. You might get a respite but eventually, it will carry on Round and round in circles, you will go.

Get Out. Stay Out.

Abusers can never be fixed.

[LannieDuck]

It's odd that he went away to research, and came back saying he was being EA. Did he say what made him come to that realisation?

I think I would feel as if he not only needs to stop the EA, but also needs to help you deal with the past abuse. For example, explaining to your neighbour that he's been abusive to you in the past and that as a result some things are now a trigger for you. If he really has changed, he should expect to shoulder the blame in others' eyes and not only in yours.

[Ren1975]

And listen to @AttilaTheMeerkat. She knows her onions.

[Ren1975]

No a relationship cannot survive EA.

This is a classic abusers trick that they will suggest they are broken, damaged. Therapy etc

Sounds to me like in those arguments you had, it was provocation. A manipulation. Just as you are being manipulated now.

Nothing will change in the long term. You have to get out.

Your Emotional Thinking is off the charts. This then reinforces your Emotional Reactions.

You just have to get away.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I would urge you to contact Women’s Aid as they can and will help you here. If you can go into Boots many of these have consultation rooms and it’s also from there that help can be accessed

Many abusers are quite plausible to those in the outside world so a person like this neighbour can be easily fooled

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

What do you get out of this relationship now

How can you be helped into leaving your abuser?

Abuse is not about communication or a perceived lack of, it’s about power and control. This man wants absolute over you and your children and he will damage them too. They are being harmed because you as their mother is being abused by their dad.

Joint counselling is NEVER recommended when there is abuse of any type within the relationship

[FeellikeEeyore]

I could have written your post a few years ago. My ex was exactly the same - whenever there was a problem that I wanted to talk about, it was my fault and I was being aggressive. Always, it came back to me. Men like this are charming, charismatic and respected because they're good at putting on a front to the world - the adoring dad and husband who always spends time with their kids but the reality is so different.

Your H is being completely selfish and I doubt if you went for joint counselling, he would go with both feet in the door ready to sort things out.

You need to sort yourself out and do the right thing for you. Go to counselling if you think it will help you get clarity of the situation but don't expect anything from him.

[differentnameforthis]

@Palavah

I don't think this is just communication style. This sounds really unhealthy.

Please do get counselling for yourself. I believe joint counselling isn't recommended in cases of abuse.

Exactly!!

[differentnameforthis]

Look up gaslighting, op.

And this is NOT by you, it's by him.

He hasn't changed. Turning everything around so it's "your" fault, letting you believe it is, and making you so upset/angry that YOU are the one that seems unreasonable is not fair by him. Now with your neighbour believing it's all you, he is once again able to turn everything around on you!

The question isn't if a relationship can survive EA, it's if YOU want to stay after being abused for so long.

[Isthisnothing]

This all sounds horrible and familiar - I had a similar relationship. My life improved exponentially from the day I left him.

I'm surprised though because your partner seems to be really trying. That does change things. You could give counselling a go yourself to see can you move on with him.

However if you try and you can't or don't want to, you don't need to justify leaving. You only get one life afaik - make it a happy one.

[Palavah]

I don't think this is just communication style. This sounds really unhealthy.

Please do get counselling for yourself. I believe joint counselling isn't recommended in cases of abuse.

[MartinLikesBiscuits]

Thanks everyone for your messages - I think it’s really clear that my first priority is to sort out some counselling for myself. Thanks again.

[Mintlegs]

It’s goid that you recognise there is a problem. I would try the counselling.

[blackcat86]

Relationships can survive EA but usually because the victim has to compromise and move on a great deal. DH got worse and worse when I was pregnant soon after we got married a few years ago and upped it again once baby was here (traumatic birth, very poorly baby). When I confronted him he said he didn't realise it was EA and gave a list of excuses/faults of mine. I had to really push him on it but things have improved.DH now thinks he's some sort of modern day Saint, judging other men's behaviour but I've realised that he is inherently very selfish and entitled (which i guess you need to be to be abusive in the first place). He's moved on but I haven't and still feel traumatised and let down. What I've decided is that I can always end things later on so there is no rush but that doesnt mean I've forgotten what happened and I do find myself reminding DH when he starts to edge towards EA - even if he apologies I feel like the behaviour police

[cantarina]

My husband behaved badly for years at the start of our marriage. He used to get angry and unreasonable. He is now on anti depressants. He is a changed man and aside from a couple of incidents, it's been very very calm.

He feels guilty about it looking back, he is contrite. When I look back I am resentful at times. The trust is gone. If he went back to how he was I know now I would leave quickly as I am very intolerant of bad behaviour. I'm paranoid that the angry version of him will return. It's an uneasy peace, but it is a peace. We bump along very well.

I would recommend you get counselling if you can.

[Gotakeahike]

Also covert abuse is insidious and a special kind of hell. It’s easy to think you’re the problem. It’s easy to believe what everyone else sees. What you described is gaslighting. But the whole point of gaslighting is to get you to think that you’re the one who must be crazy, reinforcing all of the things that other people say. Just because other people don’t see or understand your experience doesn’t make your experience untrue. It’s a very, very hard thing to hold onto when you’ve been in the midst of this kind of dynamic, but I hope you can start to hear it.

And yes, I think it is possible for your relationship to survive if you both get the help you need and that he is genuine about making real changes, but only time will tell.

[Ffsffsffsffsffs]

Do you want your relationship to survive the emotional abuse?

My ex emotionally abused me. He still doesn't acknowledge that he had anything to do with our relationship breakdown but there is nothing on this earth including the financial cost of divorce and upset to the kids lives that makes me think I would be better of if I'd stayed with him.

I couldn't get past the ea, can you?

[thelegohooverer]

Counselling will help you deal with some of the things that have happened between you. Emotions get attached to memories but they don’t have to be and counselling is a way to examine them and find peace. Sometimes you can have a lot of insight by telling the same story a few times. Counsellors don’t get bored if you repeat yourself


And yes, there is inevitably shame to confront in counselling. Everybody has shame to work through. Counselling is a great place to deal with these things because a good counsellor is not there to judge you but to listen.

Good communication is a learned skill - there’s no shame in not knowing instinctively how to do things you’ve never been taught. As an adult you have the ability to seek out help with those things. Marriage and parenting have a way of exposing the gaps in our abilities. My dps has a very dysfunctional marriage and I’ve carried a lot of weird expectations into mine. Learning to discuss calmly instead of argue was a revelation to me. Because I don’t want to parent the way I was parented, I find myself continually seeking out new skills. I had to learn how not to resort to shouting for instance (that was a habit to break), and with my dc being tweens now, I need to learn how to stay calm but firm under pressure. Often you don’t know what you need to know until you handle something badly. It’s ok to give yourself grace while you figure out how to do better.

There’s two of you in this, and with counselling, you may be able to untangle how much blame lies with you, and how much with him. It sounds like he’s very good at gaslighting you (from the way you end up feeling responsible for things you aren’t) and figuring out how you are being triggered is a very important part of self protection.

Counselling will give you back some of the control you’re lacking and put solid ground under your feet.

However, I would strongly recommend, getting a separate counsellor from your dh