How to handle my mum re dd

[DoubleRamsey]

My mum is finding it hard to be 'granny' and not mummy and I don't want to upset her, and obviously glad she adores dd but finding her behaviour a bit much. Any advice?

I'll give examples:

She wants to see dd everyday, I say no and she has one day a week but she constantly hassles me for photos. I try to send her at least one a day but if I forgot or am busy I often get a moany message

She can't stand it if dd cries (I don't like it either) but she takes it to sometimes dangerous extremes, e.g. The other day I was driving and dd was crying. Not hysterically but fussing. I was verbally reassuring her and it wasn't appropriate to pull over. My mum who was sat in passenger seat and tried to unbutton her belt to get in back seat, I was genuinely concerned she was going to try and take her out of car seat in a moving car - obviously very dangerous! She did say later she wouldn't have taken her out, bit in not sure I believe her. I had to grab her arm and shout to stop her. She sulked the whole way to our destination (10 mins) and kept saying 'naughty mummy' which upset me.

She actually often says 'naughty mummy' to my dd if I do something she doesn't agree with or god forbid make a mistake (no one is perfect right?!) the kind of mistakes I mean are trivial like dd's nappy leaking if she does a big poo 'naughty mummy didn't put your nappy on properly'

She is constantly buying dd stuff and it's getting to the point where it's too much. We live in a flat and we don't have space - I feel really ungrateful complaining.

She is obsessed with dd getting cold, and tries to wrap her up even if dd is boiling! Im always saying no and unwrapping dd.

There is more but these are a few examples. She is lovely in other ways, does my housework if I need it, makes me food. But it all gets a bit much sometimes and I feel criticised a lot. I am always saying no and needing to be firm - but it's exhausting!!

She also once took sleeping dd out of her Moses basket while I was sleeping next to her 'to give me a break' and took her out in her pram but I woke up in a complete panic that dd wasn't there?! She did apologise for that one when my dad and dh took my side.

Argh that was cathartic- what do I do??

[ChestOfDrawers]

I've had similar. It's not ok!

Firstly you might want to come over to the Stately Homes thread, if there is more you want to talk about with the relationship with your mum. Especially if it turns out not to be as simple as just quietly adjusting boundaries.

Secondly definitely stop accepting any help whatsoever. I fell into this trap too and it made a big difference when we brick walled any "help".

Thirdly I wanted to say about housework in general. With an 11 week old baby it's absolutely fine to have a bit of a messy house. I know people say this and at the time it's hard to accept. It's taken me a while to lower my standards but I'm far happier for it! So in terms of your partner doing a deep clean - do they need to do a deep clean? Instead, could you think about your systems and ways of doing things - what can you simplify/ get rid of/ not bother with? For example I used to be really hot on ironing. Now I don't do any. Turns out it was completely unnecessary and wasted hours and hours. Just take a step back and have a think about what really absolutely needs doing, and then the rest of the stuff don't worry about. It's about accepting your stage of life and that you are not going to be able to do all the things you used to do and that's ok and appropriate. It's even harder to do when you've got someone making you feel crap about your new lowered standards by constantly forcing "help" on you, so that's another reason why not to accept the help - your home, your standards, your rules.

Sorry that got long but I felt it was important to say. Stick with the ready meals and don't look too closely at the floor!! :D

And keep posting. It sounds very complicated and difficult for you. You're doing fab.

[moonamay]

You could actually handle this in a very non-direct way if you wanted to. Naughty grandma doesn't get to spend time with DD if she puts mummy down or makes her feel uncomfortable. As soon as she says or does something which upsets you over over-steps your boundaries, take her home, you go home, or remember you suddenly have somewhere else to be. She's acting like a child. Treat her like one. Believe me, she will get the message.

My MIL was similar to this and at the point of considering NC, I began taking back control by leaving her company whenever she crossed a boundary. I then left it longer than I would usually before seeing her again. Eventually, we did have a face to face ding dong over it all but from time to time, she still over steps the mark. So I pull away when she does.

[CauliflowerSqueeze]

Games? I’m not sure. Maybe leave your mum to try out a couple with her and see which one she “takes to” then comment how Dd loves playing that with her. Then you can say things like “Dd is looking forward to playing xxx with you this Sunday!” so it’s something positive you’ve noticed that then can become their “thing”. Then you can big it up with a photo of her with whatever game it is on, say a Thursday, with “can’t wait to see you on Sunday, granny!” as a caption.

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

Good for you.

One day you will look back in amazement at how you felt sad and guilty. By setting boundaries you are building the foundations of a good daughter-mother-grandmother relationship. If you didn't, imagine how bad it would get, you would end up NC by the time DD is at school. Over time with good boundaries you and she will reap the benefits.

[Pennywhistle]

You sound like you have made an excellent start Double. You need to set boundaries now because when your DD can understand this kind of nonsense it will be much, much worse.

You said it was like Treating your Mum like a toddler. That’s exactly right.

*Set clear boundaries
*Never, ever, ever reward a tantrum
*Clear consequences for bad behaviour.

So if she is doing “naughty Mummy” stuff you need to say “You are undermining me as her mother. If you don’t stop that you will need to go home”

If she cries “that’s not good behaviour modelling for DD, it’s time for you to go home”.

Remember you have the power here. You just have to take it.

It took us until our twins were 18 months old to really understand that we had the power. (We took a decision they didn’t like and they stopped speaking to us, expecting us to grovel. We didn’t and after two weeks they suddenly realised the power balance had changed. We still need to constantly defend our boundaries though)

Motherhood comes with built in guilt but you don’t need to add the burden of guilt for your own mother too.

She’s an adult. She’s responsible for her own feelings and her own behaviour.

Given the choice over your DD’s well being and your mother’s you need to pick your DD every time.

It’s your job to protect your DD from the manipulation and control you experienced.

Your Mum can still be a good granny just within your guidelines not her own.

Regarding mistakes or disputes, remember you don’t need to be right you just need to be in charge

Don’t argue with your mother about things she doesn’t get a say in. “It’s my child, it’s my decision, I’m not going to discuss it further.

I agree with PP don’t allow her control in your household, no cleaning or cooking. You need Adult:Adult conversations only.

[Movablefeast]

I have read that co-dependence happens when one party needs someone else to keep themselves emotionally regulated - they "share" their emotional state and expect you to feel what they feel and think what they think. Independence is threatening to them so they try and cling on by creating FOG. They never learnt to regulate themselves emotionally.

[Movablefeast]

To change the relationship you also need to wean yourself off some of the dependence you have when you can actually manage tasks yourself. Your relationship with your mum may have developed some unhealthy co-dependence, for example her constantly implying you need "help" so that you see a lot of each other - like the daily photos for example. It is part of the lack of boundaries and will actually undermine your self confidence. Nothing wrong with accepting help at times but not when you feel obliged to accept it.

My DH has a relationship with his mum like this and it took me years to decipher it. But now I realise that she expects everyone to put her emotional needs first - clearly not mature. Also she doesn't have a significant other so expected DH to fulfil the role of adult emotional support that should come from a partner, not a child. DH was the one who realised that he was more emotionally mature than his mum.

The dynamic was that she would literally call him crying asking him to rescue her from various situations she got herself into. It was role reversal - she wanted him to parent her. Except if he did intervene and help her she would quickly start to resent him and act like a pouty teenager.

He still loves his mum and has a relationship with her, he just gradually was able to change the dynamic (on his end).

[schoolgaterebel]

You've got to put a stop to that 'naughty mummy' shit, she must not be allowed to undermine your parenting. Do it now before your DD is old enough to understand and try to manipulate her granny, and play you against each other. Basically your DM needs to play on your team in parenting your DD, and be very clear about who is the boss.

Having said all that, I've lost my DM and I would give anything to share my DC with her once more, so as annoying as she is, treasure every annoying and overbearing moment while you have them.

[gybegirl]

Also just to say OP, I have a great relationship with my mum because I don't take any emotional blackmail nonsense. DM does it to my sister who is less assertive and their relationship suffers for it.
So you may find your relationship improves a great deal in the long run.

[Intercom]

Well done for starting to be more assertive with your mother. Sadly I think it is extremely unlikely she will change, so you’ll probably need to make your new boundaries permanent. This is for the best though, and you are right to prioritise respect for yourself and your own family. Your mum has had her turn in bringing you up. Now you are in charge and she is an adult who will need to learn to live with it, and that’s her responsibility not yours.

[DoubleRamsey]

That's a good idea CauliflowerSqueeze any ideas?

[DoubleRamsey]

I think the hardest part (apart from the guilt!) is letting go of my mum being a support and being someone I can ask advice from and enjoy her company. But more something I have to manage I love my mum, but it's a shame her behaviour means I will have to keep her at an emotional distance to protect myself and my dd.

I feel quite sad about that. Hopefully I will break the cycle so it will be different for me and my dd and she will feel able to be close to me.

Will definitely check out some of these books!

Thank you everyone, I'm glad I started this thread, it's making me feel empowered!

[CauliflowerSqueeze]

I think you’re better off chipping away as you are doing than having a Big Chat or writing a letter.

This sounds far more effective and less stressful. Don’t weaken and allow her to do washing or cooking. Then she will get a foot on your territory again.

Can you get a game that only she plays with Dd? So she has a specific role that she plays that you are happy with?

[Movablefeast]

Missed the cross post. You are responding fantastically - should reduce your stress level so much!

[Movablefeast]

I was also going to suggest you read about FOG : Fear, Obligation, Guilt.

OP you clearly love your mum but she is emotionally immature and so has developed behaviors such as having tantrums and piling on guilt trips in probably unconscious attempts to get her way.

You mustn't let yourself be manipulated. But you will have to accept that often you will be the only adult in the room and need to parent accordingly and definitely protect your child from developing FOG too.

I believe there is a good book called (surprise) Emotionally Immature parents. And the first symptom is tantrums! The most severe cases can be called Toxic but I think most did not have the benefit of mature parents themselves. Keep learning to develop boundaries with the help of your DH and teach yourself not to respond to emotional manipulation.

Just don't expect her to be emotionally mature. Expect her to behave like a 5 yr old and think about how you might handle the situation then. That will help you keep a level head and not respond with exasperation but firmness and boundary setting. You are the mother and parent and you are perfectly within your rights to make all the decisions regarding your child.

[gybegirl]

Top work today OP

[DoubleRamsey]

So today wasn't too bad, I felt more confident and less guilty and so was able to employ a few tactics which seemed to work. Mentally I felt way more in control which made me feel less incapable and guilty. It was an uneventful day so was a good start.

The first was when she started saying 'naughty mummy' I breezily said don't say that mum and asked her a question about something I know she likes talking about, which changed the subject. It seemed to disarm her a little and she started answering my question and stopped the naughty mummy business. (Using a distraction like a toddler rather than getting into a battle of wills )

I used the tactic of saying no to any help by breezily saying on repeat 'mum I need to manage this myself, why don't you enjoy your cuddles with dd as we won't see you until next week' repeating that a few time worked quite well. Although she was asking me questions in disbelief that I was managing like;

Mum: 'do you want me to wash dd's clothes, I know it's a lot of washing'

Me: 'Thank you for the offer but they are all washed thanks'

Mum: 'what are you having for dinner, do you want me to make some extra'

Me: 'that's so kind mum but dh is making a stir fry and he has already bought the ingredients'

When she started obsessing about daily photos I breezily said, 'oh mum I don't want her to have a phone in her face all day, how many photos did you take of me when I was young? I think it's better for her to interact with people rather than a phone and I would rather do this' then started making silly faces and playing peakaboo, which made dd smile and I obviously couldn't do with a phone in my hand.

It's a start, she seemed a little surprised by my behaviour, but fine. I think the real test will be when we actually disagree about something!

[SeaCabbage]

Dear God, please keep posting for more help with regard to this bloody awful woman.

Talk about manipulative. Is she a bit thick too??? Jesus.

Thank God your husband is on board.

Be strong. Feel the fear and do it anyway. STand up to her. So what if she's upset, you are upset now. So will your daughter be once she can understand what her nuts grandmother is saying. Think of it as protecting your daughter, if you can't protect yourself.

I love a PP's post about saying "silly grandma can fuck off home" . Imagine if you said that!

I wish you luck in dealing with her. Make this the start of your new project. Also, cut down contact to reduce her impact. Let us know if any of your tactics are working

[TimeIhadaNameChange]

I find my mother very difficult at times, and what helps my mental state (though not the situation, per se) is to play bingo when I'm with her. So, I have a mental list of phrases Iknow she's likely to say and tick them off when she says them.

It doesn't change her behaviour (which I can't do anyway) but it does react to how I react. Instead of getting wound up or upset I can have a wee smile to myself as that's one off the list, and ignore the hurt she's trying to cause. Plus my smiling confuses the hell out of her as it's not the reaction she wants.

In your case I would include actions as well as words, though I would pull her up on everything that could harm your daughter, including the 'naughty mummy' comments.

Could you make sure you only see her at hers, or in public? That way you can just take yourself out of the situation when she starts.

Keep toys she buys for DD at her house. You have no room.

[hellsbellsmelons]

Google FOG (fear obligation guilt)
I hope she takes notice.
And I hope she can be a granny rather than a 2nd mum.
Good luck.

[Ellboo]

This rang some bells with me, especially the bit about patterns repeating across generations. So if you need someone to be brave for, try to resolve this early for your daughter’s sake. My mum continues to be a challenge (which I find much more upsetting than a MiL issue) but as my baby got older and I saw her start to be confused by Mum’s extremes of behaviour (sulking and over-the-top adulation) it helped me realise that my job as a mother is to buffer the crazy away. Both my kids adore their granny, and I hope they don’t have to realise that she’s a bit damaged until they are much older. Confrontation doesn’t work with my Mum, but simply not talking to her for a while usually brings her round, and she sometimes now apologises like a functioning adult and we can have a chat then.

[Sarahh2014]

My mum was a bit like this my son is 3.5 now but in the baby stage I felt like she thought she knew better than me I had pnd and wasn't confident with him so it didn't help she's calmed down a lot but it's def changed our relationship

[DoubleRamsey]

I'm going to try and put some of this into practise today.

Thanks for your advice everyone!

On the cleaning front I spoke to dh last night and he is going to do a deep clean this weekend while I take dd out with a friend, and we have bought a week supply of microwave meals to keep us going.

[hungrywalrus]

If you want to reduce someone else's influence, reduce the amount of help you take from them. It'll take some organisation but you'll get there.

[MyDearAnnie]

Letting your mother do your housework and cooking is totally compounding your issues with her. By doing those things, this gives more fuel to her fire and sense of control and entitlement.

This absolutely.

You think she is being kind and helpful and it takes some of the stress off you, in her head it's just more

"naughty mummy not doing the washing up, so granny has to do it"

"naughty mummy, not cooking her husband dinner, so granny has to do it"

Each time you accept her 'help' it reinforces the idea in her head that you are just a silly little girl in over her head and she needs to come and sort you all out.