How long do I put up with this?

[mikado1]

I have posted here before about my dh and since the last post He has begun counselling and is in it for the longhaul. Background is regular low moods, quick to anger and is easily stressed. He seems to have a really low tolerance for mess in particular which to me is par for the course wuth two young dc. Our house btw is small so playroom can look like bombsite but equally a ten min blitz has it perfect so I don't stress. Anyway despite the counselling and a big effort wrt anger, I am finding the low moods v wearing and while I want to support him as it's obviously a mh issue I need to have my own limits also. I don't know if I am being tolerant or intolerant so would appreciate some outside perspective . It is now almost two years since I told him the anger was unacceptable and he needed to get it sorted and he agreed it was a problem.

In the last week he has returned from work to find dinner almost ready whilst I'm on floor with two dc, trying to keep baby happy on lap while reading to 4yo and he walks past us to sigh and bluster over kitchen cupboard before reorganizing it. Another day I have prepped veg, only for it to be rechopped wordlessly-not small enough, and he then started sighing and swearing under his breath about the cutlery drawer (I had emptied the dw at speed before play school drop and hadn't sat down since getting home). The following morning I was up at 5 (baby didn't go back after 5am feed) and had both dc downstairs till 10am and he comes down tidying books and toys from floor-four/five books, one train set out. He sighs and stomps at night if he's up to give so other, I get up a few times also, and it's just a general cloud over me and I assume the dc... he is off today so I was up from 6-7 with dc and now he's 'on' but within minutes it was all cranky voices-ds was going through Halloween haul-and his mood is of course passed on. Minutes later it's sweetness and light and he's great with dc 90% of time and had really mutually adoring relationships with both but it is so wearing to hear the sighs and irritability every day (certainly in the last week, every day). So is this normal with young dc? I am cheery by nature despite interrupted sleep for last 15m but I know it's not as easy to 'get on with it' with stress/anxiety issues. He is great around house as you might have guessed but for me it's ott and not our current priority - he would like the house in permanent state of spotkessness. Wwyd? how long do I hold out for real improvement? We have xerovsex life which he resents I know but I find his behaviour v unattractive tbh. We have no nearby family support.

[mikado1]

From a practical point of view we are living away from family and on one wage.. don't know how separation would even work.

[mikado1]

OCD has been mentioned but not by counsellor.

runrabbit , that's frightening. As mentioned last week I do usually say 'Is everything ok?' rather than totally ignore at time (answer usually 'fine') I do notice ds either apologetic when oh gets (disproportionately) angry or will meet his overreaction with one of his own..

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

When my parents started with the huffing and passive aggressive stuff, I used to feel like my chest was tightening, I found it hard to breathe, my skull felt tight.

I couldn't say anything. It was made clear that we must always pretend things are fine That's what my parents did. Pretend. Anyone who objected was treated like some kind of ludicrous drama llama. "Creating a scene" was the worst thing anyone could do.

What could I have said anyway? I knew the air was thick with tension but what exactly was wrong and what would I say and what would they say?

It is shit being a child trapped in a miserable home where you have to pretend everything is fine.

[Myusernameismyusername]

I'm not making any excuses but this could be on the OCD spectrum of some sort - mess and disorder causing feelings of stress, anger and panic.

[Myusernameismyusername]

Soothe! Sorry for bad spellings.
You can't make it better but you can draw a boundary up of what you are prepared to do and what he is prepared to do about his own stress

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

Ah, the triumph of hope over experience that locks you into your own personal groundhog day hell.

[mikado1]

runrabbit I am going down the ignoring route atm, simply because I am too exhausted to eiven begin to talk about the same thing again. Her no satisfaction anyway. It's difficult because obviously I would rather things were good so when it is good it's tempting to hope it could be good more of the time..

Thanks myusername that makes sense.
naiceham that makes me feel sick thst it could cause anxiety. Obviously I am terrified at the thought of what a separation would do to them.

[Myusernameismyusername]

The tidying thing is about asserting control over his environment because he feels out of control with his emotions. My DD can be very much like this, hard to express herself so it manifests in other areas and having things 'just right' is a disordered way of thinking because you are placing your self control and contentment upon having a perfect environment. The moment it becomes imperfect you feel stressed and don't know why. I used to feel this way when I was a smoker, for some reason I used to just feel irrationally irritated by mess and probably did at times to too far with it (as in excessive cleaning not being horrible to people)

So it's like a method to self sooth.
He needs to address this because he actually can find other ways to self sooth - usually physical activity or a hobby to concentrate on and not his surroundings being relied upon to make him feel better
But equally he has to recognise this is an issue.
Maybe you could address it from this angle - he clearly needs something new to focus on and work on the reasons why mess causes his stress levels to rise and that it is unfair to place this expectation on your shoulders

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

Why is that difficult?

Do you think you are only allowed to be upset if he takes his mood out on you every second of every waking hour? Does he have a magic reset button for you?

People get cross with each other for the incidents of bad behaviour irrespective of the good bits. Well, that's not completely true. People tolerate incidents of bad behaviour a bit more if it is out of character, happens rarely and the offender seek to make amends.

People tolerate incidents of bad behaviour less when it repeats, especially frequently, or the offender makes little effort to make amends (even once).

You should be in the very low tolerance for bad behaviour space. Which means you should be calling him out on his sulk or ignoring it while planning your exit.

Stalin, Hitler and Mao were lovely a fair bit of the time. It is well documented. Do you really require him to be worse than them for it to be simple to refuse to accept the behaviour?

What's your thinking here?

[Naicehamshop]

Oh God - that would drive me mad. It doesn't matter if he is great some of the time if the rest of the time he is casting a great gloomy cloud over your head (and the dcs ).

I think that this sort of thing can cause a lot of anxiety in children; I would consider a temporary separation and see if that helps him to see his behaviour more clearly.

[mikado1]

Not sure if anyone still reading but it helps me to post and keep track of things. Moods every day since last post. Shouty, but individually not awful, but it's the consistent over-reaction to ds' childish behaviour, him being a child and all. [Hmm]

But the thing I fibd hard is the good dad and decent person bit outside these moods.. it makes it so difficult. Headed out happy as Larry to get8 a few bits with ds, returned home sighing and banging things around, barely responded when I asked how they got on [SAD]. Likely it was the imperfect state of the house.

[mikado1]

I can't tell you how much I appreciate the time you've taken to give me your opinion on my situation

attila and runrabbit, your combined posts have made me think about me and my own habits and needs - I find it incredibly hard to put myself first and am a definite pleaser and my dad's gentleness and compassion towards others, especially those in difficulty, has possibly made me into a bit of a minimiser 're unacceptable behaviour, excusing things, looking for reasons behind it..

I see now none of that matters if my own life being so effected.
fatoldbag (what a moniker!!) You're right and joyless is a word that often comes to mind..
hermione thanks for sharing and for the hope.

cary you might be right 're resentment and indeed I pondered earlier if the stress around tidiness had come up and he said it had and then said it's part of his personality also and he doesn't want his personality changed through counselling. I said it was unlikely it would even if he wanted to but if it was problematic that yes it should be looked at it. He agreed and I said it has been v problematic this last week. He said he feels the sessions helping.

[hermione2016]

I think the pa behaviour comes from the 'nice' outside appearance.I would now run a mile from someone who has that Mr Nice Guy persona.Its never the real person underneath.

How much of the time is he like this? Perhaps start a diary.Can his mood be changed by a joke?
I feel if he's going to counselling, able to say sorry and can adjust his behaviour he is making good progress.

Is he angry or irritated? Anger is a secondary emotion so he needs to determine the primary.

My situation is stbxh was PA, 1 year of counselling which raised emotions however he wasnt taught how to deal with it.He however would never take responsibility or say sorry.

His mood changes are likely to have triggers and CBT might help him to stop and take a different reaction.

[Cary2012]

I think he resents the counselling, because he's doing it for you, not for him.
Then he 'punishes' you with all the sighing and tutting.

Not a healthy environment, you must be walking on eggshells.

Regardless of his issues, it's not a chilled happy environment for you and the kids to thrive in.

I have no advice, but wish you well. Personally, I couldn't bear living like that. Your house is a home, tidy or not, it's the place you should feel most relaxed in.

Joint counselling?

[FatOldBag]

Sounds like he's sucking the joy out of your life. It's not good when a marriage is about 'putting up with' someone rather than loving and enjoying and cherishing them. I used to think exactly the same about my first H, wondering how long I could put up with him. Then I decided life was too short. You deserve to be happy. I hope things get a lot better for you. You don't have to put up with him.

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

Your posts are all about him, his behaviour and his mental health. Very little about you.

Look at what suppor you need. You are living with a man with mental health problems that directly impact your life and your children yet your thinking is all centered around his needs and his problems like they are worth more than yours.

For example you don't want to have sex with him yet you describe that as if it is a hardship for him rather than for you! Come on, I bet you'd love to have a hot sex life yet his behaviour is denying you that.

If I were you, I would start by going to a counsellor myself to regain focus on my own needs and how to get them met.

I would tell him you need to be supported through this very difficult situation (which is not of your making) and you'll let him know what you need from him when you've worked it out yourself.

His reaction will tell you whether he is a selfish cunt or whether he cares about you.

Either way, the counselling will help you get your focus back on your own needs and those of your DC. He's got his counsellor for his problems.

[OldBootNewBoots]

The question for me was whether I really believed my dh was ill and prepared to get help, or whether it was a permanent feature of his personality. So on balance if you really think he's ill, focus on stepping up the treatment because of how awful it's making you feel.

[OldBootNewBoots]

you can only give it as long as you can personally give it - can he step up the treatment in any way? I'd be hoping for an improvement after 2 months - I say this, my dh has refused to have any treatment for years.

[OneTiredMummmyyy]

I'm following this with interest as I am in a similar situation.

[mikado1]

Thanks oldboots, it's more PA even than telling off which at least would air the annoyances! Hmm, you think after two months shouldn't be so bad? Appreciate advice because this is what I'm unsure of, how long do I realistically give it? My ds1 would be devastated to say the least but I can't even think of that.

[mikado1]

Yes attila understood the question completely, that's what was frightening. Tbf don't think the father's ever been expected to change, mil goes along with his ways..

Thanks memyself I don't think I pander to him at all, I ask him as I said if there's something wrong and I spoke to him following annoyance at a few toys saying he will find life with two dc v hard if he's going to ve that stressed and he agreed but said he can't turn off his stressed it makes him. Pils house immaculate, his relationship with them, not so much.

[OldBootNewBoots]

i wonder whether the therapy is really working or if anti-depressants would be better. It sounds like my DH, it's not a punishment not to want to sleep with someone you feel is always telling you off, i know exactly what you mean about the cloud, waiting for them to over-react to something, which in turn makes me on edge and snappier than normal. My 2p is that whatever treatment he's getting it's not really working.

[MemyselfandI123]

You've made allowances enough, take control of your home and tell him you won't tolerate his moods and if they continue you're family will end up split in the medium to long term, if he starts his muttering about mess or tries to redo something you've done , call him out on it there and then. Don't pander to him.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

What I meant by that question re a year was would you see yourself as still being with him in a year's time. Men like yours do not change; his father has not fundamentally altered either. This is deeply ingrained within his own psyche.

[mikado1]

Yes I did say something and he apologises to ds for shouting and tells him he shouldn't do that. Your question 'where do I see myself in a year?' Is quite frightening really because I am not prepared to hang on that long and yet I can't imagine these behaviours will have gone.. he thinks I don't want sex as a 'punishment ' -despite my contradicting this.