Romantic dream has turned into seething resentment about the cleaning

[writergirl74]

Hi. My first post... bear with me. To cut a long story short... Met a guy on holiday, he lived in Oz, I lived in London. I went to Oz for three months, fell madly in love, we decided I'd move there: the big love story I'd been waiting for (I am 42, he's 50). We get on great, have loads in common etc.

I've always liked Australia and was well up for it. I work remotely and can do it from Oz. BF is lovely, deffo the love of my life, all my friends liked him, said we're well matched etc etc.

I went home for a couple of months - I have a flat in London so I cleared it out, cleaned, tidied, and rented a room to a lodger . BF visited for a few weeks and saw my nice, clean, organised home.

But he lives completely differently... like a student. He shares a potentially great flat with another guy but they're slobs - food left out, cupboards left open, random objects dumped wherever they choose, rarely clean anything, washing never put away etc.

I have tried everything - tried to live with it, got really upset, sulked. I ask him to do X,Y, Z and he agrees, apologises, but it never happens. So I nag and hate myself.

We discussed moving without the flatmate but decided to stay put as the flat is nice, big, great location, pool etc.

I am resentful he didn't clean/declutter (as discussed) while I was back in London sorting my flat out (a lot of hard work, zero fun). A lot of the dirt/issues pre-date me so I am reluctant to do it... I didn't move here to be a f*cking cleaner.

I have considered moving out but we need to live together for visa purposes and I love him and want to be with him.

Obviously it's affecting our relationship as I am pissed off/resentful all the time . We go on nice nights/days out but returning to the mess just makes me grumpy.

I was prepared for missing my friends, family, London etc not here... but not for not feeling at home in the flat. It's making me miserable and affecting my motivation for finding new friends, doing stuff here etc. I really want it to work though - I love BF and Australia.

So.... help!

[saffronwblue]

Maybe this is just the usual learning to live together tension, intensified by the fact that you are both maturer and set in your ways, plus the extra intensity of you having flown so far to be with him.
I really hope you can work it out and be happy together. Agree that no one cleaner can fix someone else's clutter, so there are always two stages to it.

[RedMapleLeaf]

This old dog doesn't want to do new tricks

I disagree, OP has indicated that he is making changes.

[Shiningexample]

This old dog doesn't want to do new tricks
His best trick is getting you to do it for him

What's in it for you op?

[Hillfarmer]

I'm surprised some people seem to think I should live in a mess despite being unhappy with it.

Hi OP,

I don't think anybody thinks you should live in a mess despite being unhappy with it. Of course not, but you have chosen to move in to a mess. If you want to live how you want to, then you should have moved into a flat on your own and got it exactly how you like it in terms of cleanliness, or found a boyfriend who keeps his things up to a level of clean and tidy and shipshape that is similar to yours.

The point is that you have moved in on someone else's happy mess and have proceeded to insist that it changes for you. Why do you think this is reasonable? You are the last to arrive at this party, so it would have been safe to assume that you fit in with them, not the other way round. What I'm interested in is why you thought it would be any different.

[RedMapleLeaf]

OP what has the time frame been for this relationship? You've been through a huge change in your life and I'm wondering if this is effecting your thinking about this situation.

[RedMapleLeaf]

Obviously that doesn't apply to the FM. But when my BF discussed my moving in with the FM then he could have said if he was happy to live with a couple or not and we/he could have made a decision based on what he thought

But I thought these two men were already living together?

[HermioneJeanGranger]

If I met a fifty year old man living in a student hovel/flatshare, I would see a big red flag waving, and certainly wouldn't move across the world, move in with him and expect him to change for me!

He's fifty. The time to change/grow up was when he moved out at 21, not as a grown man barely 10 years off retirement!

Why did you think you could change him? You saw how he lived, you saw his house, and moved in anyway! What did you expect to be different?

[Gruach]

There is another issue - which might not be one if you were all 20 and everything was short term. You have said that your bf doesn't want you to pay any rent as your presence isn't costing him any significant extra amount. I'm astonished that neither of you seem to recognize that the flatmate was previously paying for the quality of life and amenity of living in a two person flat. He is now living in a three person flat. Less space, less privacy, less company from his flatmate, considerably less freedom to live as he chooses. The value of living there has decreased; he should now be paying only one third of the rent - not half. Even if your bf doesn't want to take money from you he should now be contributing two thirds of the rent.

(What happened when the flatmate has a girlfriend living there is irrelevant. You're all old enough to act morally.)

[Hotwaterbottle1]

Sorry but all I read is me, me, me. Pay for a deep clean (as you pay no rent) and then keep on top of it. Why the big drama? You, and only you, chose to move to the other side of the world, pay flights etc, not your BF.

[SavoyCabbage]

There have been lots of suggestions about getting a cleaner and that seems to be the best idea. You clearly have very different standards and living with anyone after you have lived alone is a big adjustment I think.

Do you really have to live together for the visa? I've been through this myself and we had to submit a lot of evidence that we were in a relationship, which we were so not a problem, but I don't remember having to live together.

[bibbitybobbityyhat]

I completely agree with Gruach's post above. You sound so incredibly selfish and self righteous op. Whether it is unusual or not, the setup your bf had with his fm before you moved in suited them both. Since you are not paying any rent why don't you pay for an agency cleaner to come and deep clean the communal rooms and your bedroom and the windows. You say the flat is large so don't interfere with the fm's room, and could your bf temporarily put all his clutter in one room temporarily until he gets the chance to sort it out?

[writergirl74]

Why should they change? Because living together is about compromising and understanding that some things are important to the other person?

Obviously that doesn't apply to the FM. But when my BF discussed my moving in with the FM then he could have said if he was happy to live with a couple or not and we/he could have made a decision based on what he thought.

As I said BF insists on paying because I am still paying for my flat in London and have paid travel costs twice. I'm happy to pay rent but I can't force him to take my money.

I'm surprised some people seem to think I should live in a mess despite being unhappy with it. For the record, I tried that for the first two weeks - I didn't mention it until I just got really stressed and upset about it and ended up in tears which is rare for me and a shock to my BF. I literally couldn't stand the thought of trying to prepare food in the kitchen. It has improved since then.

[RedMapleLeaf]

expect me to do all the cleaning in return? I hope not - man earning, woman cleaning is not the sort of relationship I want. If he does then we need to talk.

So what do you have at the moment? Man paying, women..?

Ongoing cleaning is much easier if surfaces are kept reasonably clear?

But they seem to find it easiest to live as they have been. Why should they change?

[writergirl74]

I have repeatedly offered my BF money for rent but he insisted on him paying as before, his reasoning being that I was still paying for a flat in London and I have also paid for two trips to Australia so far. Also that me moving in doesn't increase his costs.

Does he expect me to do all the cleaning in return? I hope not - man earning, woman cleaning is not the sort of relationship I want. If he does then we need to talk.

And I work FT too. I do more of the cooking (for FM too) and more laundry (for BF, not FM). It's the legacy dirt I have most issue with. And the clutter - but he needs to sort that as I can't dispose of someone else's items if I don't know what to keep/chuck. Ongoing cleaning is much easier if surfaces are kept reasonably clear?

[Daytona79]

So him and flat mates pay the rent and you pay nothing..?? Apart from energy bill

In that circumstances I think the least you could do is clean the house seems your not paying rent.

[saffronwblue]

I don't know anyone much over 30 sharing a flat in Sydney . Have you had a conversation about your shared and separate goals? What is his attitude re finances? Has he saved or earned much in his life?
My suggestion is that you and he find somewhere you can both afford to live in and set up together with agreement about basic levels of clutter/cleanliness. Then there will be no more legacy issues, you can agree together how to live.

[aurynne]

Flatting together when single is common in Aus/NZ regardless of age. These two adults (your DP and his flatmate) have been living happily together for years. They are satisfied with the level of tidiness of their house and I assume with their lives and their arrangement was working perfectly up to the point where you arrived.

You move in and expect to change both their lifestyles and set new rules.

Sorry, but I cannot see your point. You have different tolerance to clutter and dirt, but that does not make you "right" and him "wrong". Why should your DP have to change? It's his house! How would you feel if it was the other way around, he moved into your house rent-free and expected you to change your ways?

[Sparkletastic]

Maybe it isn't all about the mess - maybe you are focusing on that to ignore the other stuff.

[Theearthmoved]

I also agree that it's not appropriate to move into someone else's place and change everything and impose your standards on two people who are probably quite happy living as they are.

[Theearthmoved]

There's no way I could live like that in my 40s and 50s. I did house shares in my 20s and even with neat freaks it's hard work. It got to the stage where people just coughing irritated me.

He is not going to change the habit of a lifetime after 4 weeks is he? For this to work I think you would have to be prepared to do the cleaning yourself or boss him around and control everything. Are you prepared to do that?

[Gruach]

This is so strange ... I've read through this three times and I still can't find the post where you acknowledge that the flatmate is a grown adult whose home you have moved into. It's all about what you want.

I feel uncomfortable about coming to this conclusion - because I want to sympathise with you - but I cannot help putting myself in his place.

You have no right whatsoever to insist that the flatmate changes his lifestyle to accommodate you. You have cited his exgf, his working hours - as if he should be out as much as possible to suit you - his washing up ... He lives there!

People have commented on your bf's student lifestyle but, quite honestly, you too have acted like a self-centered teenager. The mature thing to do would be to move out, with or without your bf.

[GiraffesAndButterflies]

Surely this should be the honeymoon period where you're still trying to impress each other? If I was with someone who wasn't making an effort right at the start of living together that would worry me.

[BoboChic]

TBH the whole thing sounds pretty immature. At 42, moving in with your BF and his flatmate?

You need to set up a proper new adult home together.

[NameChange30]

This man is FIFTY years old and he's been living like a complete slob. Leaving rubbish in bags on the kitchen counter?! Disgusting!

It's pathetic, immature and unattractive, and I don't know how you could still fancy someone like that.

You moved to the other side of the world for him. The least he could do is behave like a grown up and keep his house tidy.

Do you think it would help if it was just the two of you without the flatmate?

[RedMapleLeaf]

I don't think using labels such as weird is helpful here. There's nothing illegal or concerning about the lifestyles involved in this situation - just people making different choices to the ones others would.

I think that you've hit the nail on the head with your comment about you being used to living alone and having things 100% your way. It sounds as though he's also used to having things his way, and is used to the compromises of living in a shared home.
Perhaps it's reasonable to expect there to be quite a long period of two lives coming together, of compromising, learning to change, learning what each of you won't compromise on etc?

Your boyfriend seems to be making big changes for you, I'm not sure I would change how I live for a new boyfriend(!). Are you going to help him with his "outstanding tasks"?