Is this what life from the mid forties onwards is like?

[crossroads3]

Am 47. Have 3 dc who are 10, 12 and 14 and a husband who is 12 years older than me. The only physical affection I get (and am able to share) is from my 10 year old.

H does not touch me EVER on a day to day basis yet is very cuddly with dd2 (10) and always trying to cuddle dd1 (12) as well as telling her she is gorgeous and cute (which she is but it is strange being a witness to all of this but being outside it, and thinking that once upon a time he used to feel like that about me ).

Sex happens only if I initiate it and with very large gaps in between as H is not interested.

I am about a stone overweight (aiming to lose that over the coming 7 weeks if possible) and feel boring, sensible and invisible.

The possibility of flirting with anyone or anyone finding me attractive again seem to have gone out of the window .

Is this what the middle years are like ? A slog with no romance or even being particularly liked to liven them up?

I'm 42 and DP is 57.

Trust me, the age gap has got nothing to do with it.

It's him.

Also - is the way he's behaving with the 12 year old entirely appropriate?

Re your answer to my question,

"No but how it is at the moment is much better than a divorce would be - for them and maybe for me too".

There is no real affection between you, he gets defensive if you try and talk and you mainly talk about the children. What is really so much better about that?.

Why do you think that, what are the reasons for that mind set?.

I asked you what you got from this relationship and you have not answered that question.

You want to continue to show them this example of a marriage for basically your own reasons (is it really easier to be together in your own misery and plod along). Living as you both are at present is really no life for either of you.
Better to be apart and happier than to be together and miserable.

I am also not surprised to read that he has always been defensive as well.

It sounds like he is overly affectionate with your daughter to make some kind of point. That is not healthy for her.

I like Jimjamjoos ideas about making your own life more positive and fulfilled while you think this one over. If he is so "defensive" (about what?) its going to be hard to resolve it through shared communication.

Its hard to know whats going on if he is naturally affectionate e.g. with children, but not with you. Also as girls get older I suspect they will probably start to get uncomfortable with high levels of physical affection from dad. I could be wrong but I believe this change is something that naturally happens and will probably start to change quite soon.

I hardly think that being a stone overweight would stop someone having sex with you! It sounds more like his poor libido, his outlook on life, and lack of appreciation for you all rolled into one.

And why do you think that is?. Its likely because he knows his actions are wrong but its easier instead to blame others

I am sorry Attila I just don't see it that way at all. By Op's own admission her DH has not changed Not sure if he has changed. He has become "older" in outlook I think whatever that means

Therefore it is Op that has changed (rightly so, she doesn't want the last X years, for the next X years).

DH is being defensive as most people would when they feel it is an unwarranted attack. Op you need to find away to commuynicate with your DH in a non blame way. Tell him you are assessing your future and both write down what you want for the future. Don't articulate it as ^change^ but rather what you want. Then work through your lists and articulate exactly what each item means. Then you both need to be honest and decide if it is something you can give.

It's not the age gap. There are 12 years between me and DH and we hug, kiss and hold hands every day (and I am 7 stone heavier than when we met 24 years ago)

I'm not sure what you do to ease things, but it sounds like him, not you.

""Is this really what you want to teach them about relationships?"

No but how it is at the moment is much better than a divorce would be - for them and maybe for me too.""

I'm not sure about this. The blurred boundaries I was taking about - telling your DDs they are cute and gorgeous whilst ignoring you - that's very bad and confusing for teen girls just coming into their own sexuality. I'm sure my DDs are very happy and relaxed to go to DH for a cuddle when the chips are down because I'm the one DH snogs in the kitchen, if that makes sense. And though they say, "uh that's gross! Yuk!" it helps put all the relationships in their proper place. That doesn't mean your DH can't say nice things and compliment them - he should do, that's good for their self esteem. But they need to see that his adult relationship is with you, to know that what he has with you is different to what he has with them. This frees them up to go and make their own healthy relationships in the future - and they're not getting that.

I think you could challenge him again on this point alone.

you can't fix a marriage on your own and it sounds like he is not bothered. I would find the sly digs so corrosive to your self confidence. It is sad that you think this is all you deserve. I think he sounds pretty dreadful and the way he is with the dc sounds strange and something I would find incredibly uncomfortable.

It's obviously gone stale and I think this gradual slide in to boredom is a danger in long term relationships. No boredom here because we have always had independent interests. My sister is the same as me and is currently in Croatia on hols minus her DH.

What do you actually like doing in life? Please don't focus on something that is solitary like bleeding baking or needlepoint. I actually enjoy sewing but it's hardly getting you out there is it.

Even IF you accepted age/declining physical health as an excuse for lack of sex life (and I don't think you should) there's absolutely no excuse for a lack of cuddles, hugs, handholding, respect, talk of affection etc that's the absolute minimum there should be.

I've been single (officially) a LONG time but I still date and have a sex life and I am by no means ideal physically (greying, pale skinned, more overweight than you). I haven't met anyone I care about enough to introduce to dd but she does know I date and Er...what that involves? Ie she knows over 40 does not equal no passion!

Her grandparents (my ex in laws) are very affectionate with each other and they're in their 70's/80's! Nothing inappropriate in front of others but lots of cuddles, chaste kisses, handholding and ex fil is always saying ex mil is the most beautiful woman as far as he's concerned.

I also have relatives who have met and married new partners later in life and it's definitely not celibate companionship type relationships.

I agree about the effects on your dc being a concern. If at minimum from the aspect of you don't want them thinking they'll be past it at 41! Or that their looks are the main reason a partner stays.

But also so they don't learn to put up with crap relationships and don't have to live in a tension filled unhappy home now.

On a practical note, what are the issues with his feet? Is this being treated? Being in pain will put anyone off sex. But I'm also thinking if it's circulatory/diabetes linked could ed/other sexual dysfunction be an issue for him? Absolutely don't expect an answer just something for op to think about.

Yes he is not bothered.

He has never had a high libido but definitely used to fancy me more.

Yes dd1 who is 12 is retreating and does often not want cuddles (though she still does occasionally). He will try to cuddle her as he goes past often and she invariably tells him to get off and stop being weird. She also often does not want cuddles from me as well so I agree that at her age she is trying to forge her own identity and become independent.

When I have spoken to H about his being affectionate with the dc but not with me, he has always said that they are kids and he can't understand why I want the same kind of attention. I think he thinks that at a certain stage as an adult you are past that and are mature etc... I think he saw his mother not get much adult affection so this is his normal. So once his own sexual feelings for me have dropped off the agenda there is nothing left for me . But yes I have told him that I need / would like some affection and he obviously does not feel he needs to take that on board. Or maybe he is in such a bad place himself that he does not know how to. And yes I try to be affectionate with him but it is difficult to do that with someone who rarely responds.

Missed the last two points will respond in a bit.

Noticing your NN there crossroads
From everything you've said I think, for me, the scales would be beginning to go towards separating from this relationship.
I know it's hard after many years together and with your DC to think about.
But there seems to be a level of disrespect here that I'd find hard to live with?
I'd be asking myself where the best chance of happiness lay for all concerned.
Wishing you well whatever you decide x

Does he back off when DD1 tells him to?

I really, really don't like the sound of this man and I have no idea why you are staying with him.

DH and I are not that great at being affectionate with each other (I think I would like him to be more affectionate with me in an everyday sort of way) but we've both always been very affectionate with DD and DS. But as DD has got older through the teen years she's naturally become slightly less physically affectionate with DH, both naturally respecting the changing boundaries of what feels appropriate and comfortable.
So important that everyone within a family feels loved and cared for by the others, and that this love and respect is appropriately expressed within a healthy family dynamic.
Not always easy to get to that place though I realise, but good to know what you're aiming for?

Crossroads, you sound in a similar istuation to me. No age gap with my DH but like you we have somehow disconnected along the way. Together 23 years, married 19, 2 kids, 12 & 10. We have no intimacy anymore...think we've slept together 3 times this year. Few hugs, no hand holding. We get on fine - like good flatmates. It's not bad, per se. It's just not great. I've changed a lot in the last year - new friends, new hobby, changed how I look. he seems to have stagnated. I can't envisage ever splitting up - he's a fab dad and i couldn't split up my family. But the thought of the next 30-40 years like this just depresses me. I think I've cried myself to sleep more often than not recently. So no advice, but you're not alone...

I said she is not old - she must be between 50 and 55 and he joked that he "wouldn't fancy that"

and

H does not touch me EVER on a day to day basis yet is very cuddly with dd2 (10) and always trying to cuddle dd1 (12) as well as telling her she is gorgeous and cute (which she is but it is strange being a witness to all of this but being outside it, and thinking that once upon a time he used to feel like that about me sad).

These two things jumped out at me. The first one was not a joke- "joking" is a hall pass to insult you. He knows exactly how old you are and exactly what he was saying and implying. You tried to get some clarification, perhaps an apology, and he weaseled his way around it.

Second one: he is using your daughters to get at you - again pointing to the beauty/age specification. They are probably proud to have dad's endorsement (glad your 12 yo is telling him to shove off!), but I think if they ever realize that they were a tool for him to dig at you- it will be a gigantic betrayal of his sincerity. They may not be able to trust a compliment from a guy again. (Cynical moi: perhaps this might not be a bad thing but it is a very hard lesson, especially if it came from father/daughter dynamic.)

A teaching moment. Perhaps you could debrief your daughters and give them some pointers on telling a guy to respect their personal space...starting with dear old dad. Yes, I agree with pps that this would concern me from the daughters' perspective regardless of the dig at me. At this point, I wouldn't trust the personal boundaries to develop naturally. Be proactive and instruct them and yes, it applies to family members, doctors, boyfriends. Say what is acceptable and what isn't...and to trust their gut.

Imho, he sees you as being past your "use by date". This apparently is not a two way street in his mind. I don't think he sees women as actual people.

If you were 25 and he 37 and showed you no affection, would you stay? Why is it different now? Age is a red herring here.

Good point from Bacon regarding the possibility of an undiagnosed medical condition. My bil dropped dead from untreated diabetes at 53.

I don't think age is a red herring. You have the combination of the effects of a long relationship and the fact that you are at different stages of life.

59 isn't old - for some. But he's coming to the end of his working life in a physical job. It's not like sitting at a desk and giving others the benefit of your superior knowledge and experience. He's surrounded by younger men who are fitter and stronger and can do the job more easily. The physical toll is beginning to catch up with him.

Most men of his age will be looking forward to retirement, but he will still have the financial responsibilities of a family for some time yet.

Whereas you are reaching the stage when life is beginning to open up, now the children are older. You could retrain, try something new and you'd still have 20 years of working life in a different career.

It's not the whole picture, but it's a significant part of it.

Regarding the mismatched libido, is he less affectionate in a casual way than before? Do you think, like many women who post on here, he's inhibited from random displays of affection in case you think it's an invitation to take it further?

So important that everyone within a family feels loved and cared for by the others, and that this love and respect is appropriately expressed within a healthy family dynamic.
Not always easy to get to that place though I realise, but good to know what you're aiming for?

Yes I agree with this.

But the thought of the next 30-40 years like this just depresses me. I think I've cried myself to sleep more often than not recently. So no advice, but you're not alone...

I am sorry you feel like this 30DayDead. I can relate to the feeling of hopelessness and I know that a lot of people are in similar situations - living almost or completely platonically alongside each other. H and I have also slept with each other 3 or 4 times this year . Putting it like that makes me realise what a state of nothingness our relationship is in.

Yes there is some disrespect. Mainly if H feels backed into a corner or criticised. So this essentially means that we don't talk about anything of any importance or about "us".

He has plantar fasciitis which makes it painful to walk and which he finds quite debilitating / knackering.

If you were 25 and he 37 and showed you no affection, would you stay? I really hope that I wouldn't.

thymeout all of your post rings/is true.

Regarding the mismatched libido, is he less affectionate in a casual way than before?

In the beginning he was affectionate in a casual way but he hasn't been for a long time now. I minded then but at least there was more sex (even though there hasn't been that much of that for many years either but now it has reached epic proportions of nothingness) but the lack of sex and affection together are what makes me feel basically asexual.

Do you think, like many women who post on here, he's inhibited from random displays of affection in case you think it's an invitation to take it further?

Yes maybe. He once said that he doesn't need any cuddles etc. .. Yet he is always asking the kids for cuddles so that can't be exactly true ?

I guess as an adult I am in a different category. We have also been through several marital crises and I guess there is mutual mistrust!

Gosh what a barrel of laughs !!

Thanks for all your messages .

So important that everyone within a family feels loved and cared for by the others, and that this love and respect is appropriately expressed within a healthy family dynamic.
Not always easy to get to that place though I realise, but good to know what you're aiming for?

It was meant to be in bold.

And still it didn't work!

I'm 45 and 2.5 stone overweight (working on that) and my DH treats me as if I was the 20 something babe he first met. I still fancy him too.

Sometimes we're tired due to work or running about after the kids, but that doesn't change our feelings for one another.

Good luck op, you need it.

I'm 50, husband 5 years older, we're both heavier than when we met 30 odd years ago, but we're still affectionate, have sex regularly, and he is just as enthusiastic as he ever was. Your husband sounds decidedly dysfunctional - I'm not sure why you think staying is less damaging for the children than leaving, unless there's a huge back story?

Or maybe he is just no longer interested in me but doesn't see a way out of being with me? It does hurt though seeing him draped over the sofa with his arms rounds the dds - hands affectionately on them, when if I sit next to him he does not touch me at all.