*triggering* If you have an known abuser in your family why the fuck

[CookieDoughKid]

Do you insist on having the abuser and abused in the same room? Why do you not talk about the abuse in your family, with your wider family? Why do you not openly acknowledge what happened with the victim and their family? Why do you stay in contact with the abused? Why do you sweep it under the carpet? Can you not see that the abused does not want to keep in touch with you because of your lax inconsiderate attitude?

I am not a researcher. I am a mum who's ds was abused by her uncle and I am sick of always hearing the same on mumsnet that families choose to sweep the crime under the carpet.

I'd like to hear from you. I want to hear why you choose to do what you do as I don't understand the rationalisation behind it.

[WonderingAspie]

I've just remembered, DH told me someone in his family had been abused, that person continued to see the abuser and to take her own children there. I was horrified and asked DH if he thought that was ok. His answer was "well the children were never left alone with him." And that he had fond memories of the abuser because to him it was just his X, not someone he should not have anything to do with. Thankfully the vile old paedophile is long dead because I told DH that if he hadn't been there would be no well in hell our children would have visited him nor would I have had him in our home.

In my own family a family member visited her own abuser with her children. She justified it by saying she wouldn't leave them alone with him. Her reason for visiting? She wanted money in his Will. She didn't get it.

[WonderingAspie]

I've only read part of the thread.

There was abuse in my family. When the wife of the abuser found out, she went mad and immediately kicked him out leaving her a single parent to 4 under 5's, heavily pregnant and only 24 herself. If she can bloody well do it then anyone can. There should be no excuses.

When I was abused, it wasn't believed by the people around the abuser. He kept his position in the family until years later when something he did made them realise I had been telling the truth.

Given how many abusers are out there and how many of them still have links to their families and friends, I'd say you are spot on OP and many people do not ostracise them when discovering what they have done. I cannot get my head around it at all. I wouldn't associate with anyone I knew to be an abuser, even more so if the abused was one of my children.

[CookieDoughKid]

Thank you all. Your words have been very comforting.

[Zaurak]

I've commented on the other thread as well. My point was that 'shame' as a concept is not always a bad thing. Yes it's good that we no longer stigmatise babies born out of wedlock/being gay etc but the concept of shaming someone, of the community shunning them, is a powerful message to humans (as social animals.)
In the Middle Ages, if you beat your wife or violated a social norm there was a thing called 'rough music ' where the whole community would get together to shame the perpetrator

By remaining in normal relations with an abuser the family or community says 'hey you did nothing wrong.' Social shunning and opprobrium is powerful

I'm so sorry this happened to your son, op. And I'm aghast at people who would invite a convicted paedophile to a family wedding, or expect the victim to attend family dos. The message that sends is the victim isn't important. Awful stuff

[buzzpop]

Cookiedoughkid I'm so sorry this happened to you all.
I know a very similar pain from what happened to my DD by my 'NOT D' F and was was subsequently found out via his computer re scale 1 - 5 images of children and animals.
I realized that every time I say or had any contact with that side if the family, who ignored/denied/brushed it under the carpet/ or attempted to make ME feel sympathy for him it made the pain worse, it was triggering, it brought it all back. I ended up diagnosed with PTSD. Each time I was so angry and ill and low afterwards.
I stopped contact ( and also with DD) with anyone who was in contact with him via family for 7 years, at first they didn't understand. Now after time has passed, I think they 'get' the gravity of it now,
They haven't seem DD grow up, I couldn't risk them saying things to her. Recently I had messages to me that they would like to reconcile and no longer have contact with him, I don't know yet.
Sorry for the long post. My point is please don't do anything YOU are not comfortable with, your body is telling you, you are understandably angry, raging in fact. You don't HAVE to do it, and don't let anyone tell you that you do.

[CookieDoughKid]

Triggering

Yes. I've read and contributed. And it's just awful. I'm not saying criminals don't have a right to live their lives, they are barely human after all. I actually think what's worse is the folks around the criminals who cannot and will not acknowledge and TALK about what they have done. At least the criminals and I say this criminals because I haven't a better word or peodophiles cover a very wide spectrum of ''kicks'' they are into . At least these criminals have had their interrogation. They've been judged and sentenced. They've been investigated. They should be facing up to what they have done. At least we have that. Whereas the supporters will not.

There was a previous poster on this thread who said their families, did acknowledge the crime and although they can't cut contact with the peodophile they were sensitive to the issue and seemed considerate to the victim.

You see - if my family showed any slight bit of the same consideration, I would be very grateful. But they are not. In my case, my peodophile who took my 3year old ds in a room on his own, and dropped his trousers and had my ds look at his fully erect penis had a very special kick. The police called it infantilism where they fantasise about babies and toddlers. As evidenced by the images found on his computer. As evidenced by the online chat rings he participated in, and arrested (twice) and sentenced. Oh but it's absolutely ok* that my family want to have bbqs and weddings and be fine around this peodophile yet it's not ok to talk about what when on and not ok to talk to me and say ''you know what, I'm so sorry for all that you and your ds have been through''. Because I get called the fucking mental one as ''I'm not over it' and ''labels don't help anyone'' and ''why you involving me and telling me about what happened to you and your baby son as it's none of my business''. None of their fucking business? I'm talking to you uncle, aunt, cousin, brother in law. YOUR NEPHEW who could have been RAPED BY HIS UNCLE.

I hope I get identified. I hope the people in my circle read this. Because the crime my family have committed is worse than the peodophile at the centre of it.

So excuse me if I don't want to go to that fucking bbq and play happy families.

I'm just not OK for all the victims my peodophile preyed on. I'm standing up for them.

[BuunyChops]

Have you all seen the thread in AIBU about a situation like this?!

[SeptemberFlowers]

I found out some nasty shit about one of my family members. My parents kept me away from them for a few years but slowly slowly they were at family gatherings again, I remember thinking "What ?!" when I saw the family person at a family gathering and blabbed to my cousins about why I wouldn't go near said family person for a hug or speak to them. I forced to stand near them for a family photograph as well but the picture isn't a great one as my 15yr old self has a proper cats bum face. I had a not so great relationship with my own parents (including DV) and didn't speak to them for a long time. Even now years later , they are both gone anyway, I don't miss them.
I became really angry at times after I had my own family as the way they behaved was just a polar opposite of how I would treat a situation like that for my own family.

[CookieDoughKid]

Bloodyhell. I'm so sorry SoThatHappened. I can't see how you feel loved at all. You must look forward and not back.

I'm sorry - to everyone - who have taken the time to write on here. I hope it has been cathartic for you, as it has been for me. I can't rationalise it because if I do, I feel like I would be minimising the crime the happened in the past. I'm a dangerous person (mentally) to be around - as even though I have cut off many members of the abuser's family, I haven't been able to cut off all of them and that is where my wound is.

I've had to make concessions for my husband who has begged me to ''keep the peace'' with his in-denial sibling and in-denial mother. It just means that when I see his family that should have supported us better, I look at them and just want to stab them or physically chuck them out.

Fortunately, I see them only two or three times a year and I force the fakest smile possible and force the fakest conversation just to keep civil. But I know I'm standing near the edge of the cliff - when I say to my husband - I'm quite ready, to throw my wine over their faces or tell them fuck off and get out of my house.

I really don't know how one is supposed to go on but we do. All we can do is break the cycle and console the child within us and be there for those who really matter to us, like our kids.

[Penfold007]

I was born into a family with a nasty secret and as a teenager was 'let into' the secret to ensure I kept my mouth shut. For years I did as I knew no better.

The aggressor and victim are both long dead. The resulting 'secret' is alive and we are in contact and at peace with each other. We both suffered terribly but we have found a mutually loving peace.

[buzzpop]

In our family, they continued contact with the abuser, they said because of the elderly Mother/Grandma/Grandparent because it was too much for her to fully process and I think because he was golden child.

Initially they couldn't understand why I (daughter of abuser ) would stop all contact with him (abuser), And also stop contact with all of them too for what I viewed as their complicit part in it all (abuse of my DD), by continuing contact with him during and after his prison sentence, even seen (via FB) at family do's with small children around, disgusting.

They said they wanted to re-build the family, and reconnect with us after elderly grandparent died, and that they would cut all contact with him then.

She died last year, and not heard from anyone yet. I believe there is more too it in that family, more in the histories. I believe in this case it is wrapped up in Catholicism, and sweeping under the carpet and an inability to conceive that the very worst happened and one of their own, that they had always known was capable of it

[Pebbldash]

So sorry for all of you who have suffered and are suffering abuse. I'm a foster carer and have looked after and know of many children who have been abused. Such a high number of children have been removed from their parents and the mothers go on to have further children with the abuser. I'm not going to suggest any excuses for why this is, as although I've heard the explanations I still can't rationalise this away.

I do know that anecdotally the children who have been abused and went onto have peaceful lives as adults have cut all contact with their families.

[TheSparrowhawk]

The family who denies the abuse deny it because they are participating in it.

[SoThatHappened]

I am slowly separating myself from the family and they are resistant.

Why is that? They'll lose the scapegoat in me? Hell will freeze before they are nice to me.

[Nabootique]

My mother was abused by a family member. She still talks to him and visits, etc.! I don't understand it at all. She also left me alone with him several times when I was little. He never touched me, but when the authorities found out I had been left alone with him I was questioned about it.

[SoThatHappened]

Inspired by this thread, I tried it out on a family member. Described to them how I get treated by both of them and gave specific examples and I got told no....it isn't that way, I treat THEM badly and it is my perception of it but I am most definitely to blame.

This is from a mother who neglected and ignored me as a child and even now, it is as if I don't matter, and a sibling who only speaks to me when they want something.

They would probably read this thread and be appalled at the treatment of the OP et al whilst failing to appreciate they do it themsleves.

[Zaurak]

If anyone one hurt my son like this they would never be in any form of contact with them again - not in the same circles, the same area, definitely never in the same room.

Frankly they'd never be in the same room as their testicles again.

Why do people do this op? I don't know... Perhaps the enormity of what was done is too much for people to process? Perhaps there's a deeply dysfunctional dynamic that pre exists and is tied up with it all? Victim blaming? It's incomprehensible to me.

[SoThatHappened]

If you dont mind my asking MewlingQuim how would your mum react if it was you, the scapegoat rather than the golden child, who was accused of something bad?

My mum wont listen and glosses over it if my sibling did something bad, she excuses it and says well so. With me, hell fire, she would believe anything anyone said about me true or not. She loves to blame me for things that were not my fault whereas my golden sibling can do no wrong.

[MewlingQuim]

My brother abused me. He is my mum's pfb, her little boy that she loves, the golden child that can do no wrong and is just misunderstood. She cannot accept he would do something bad, let alone sexually bad. It is easier for her to convince herself that I must have made it all up

Everyone likes to think if they found out someone they know is a paedo or rapist they would cut them out of their life, lock them up and throw away the key, but in reality when the accused is someone they love they think it must be a mistake or misunderstanding or simply a lie. They don't want it to be true.

[SoThatHappened]

disgrace how* the OP is treated not who.

[SoThatHappened]

I don't accept that people who are reading this - and you know who you are - do not have the courage to open up here and explain yourselves. ...I invite you to write here. I really want to hear from you.

I almost sure beyond a shadow of doubt that my family would read this thread and think it was a disgrace who the OP is treated and not realise how they have treated me over the years.

They just tell me I am fucked up in the head and have a persecution complex and I am imagining it all.

I have tried explaining to them that ever since I was about 12 I have felt that no one is really interested in anything I do, if I have a problem I dont feel I can talk to them about it as they dont care or blame me for causing it, if I need help with something I dont feel I can talk to them or ask them for help.

I just dont have a family.

Even the simplest example being, the al bitch and moan about Christmas and I get orders for presents from them, and none of them really make any effort for me at Christmas. At birthdays again, they get presents they asked for and taken out, but if I wanted a birthday treat I had to take them out for my birthday and pay it as if I want it I should pay it.

They see nothnig wrong with it.

[SoThatHappened]

I think that the golden child syndrome makes that individual grow up believing that their behaviour is acceptable & that their actions are somehow above the law.

This is so true. THe way my sibling behaves makes me want to ask them who the fucking hell they think they are. But they clean away with it throughout life no matter who they deal with.

The scapegoated child on the other hand is conditioned from childhood that nothnig they do is ever good enough and they try and win peoples approval accordingly. Ive been in a fair share of abusive relationships thinking it is normal and that I have to try and make them be nice to me and can do it if only I am nicer.

it's beyond fucked up.

[RiceCrispieTreats]

I don't accept that people who are reading this - and you know who you are - do not have the courage to open up here and explain yourselves. ...I invite you to write here. I really want to hear from you.

But they won't, OP. Not any more than the family members who have so hurt you.

You're not going to get that kind of resolution. Unfortunately.

This is one of those situations where we have to grapple with anger and acceptance inside ourselves, because those who have wronged us are NOT going to engage with us on the topic.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

OP, one of my family members is an abuser. When it came to light, his own parents (he was an adult) handled it. They told him they knew, drove him to the police station and told him to make an honest statement. He pleaded guilty and went to prison.

His parents are still in touch with him, but will not have him at their house and he is not involved in any family stuff (he abused another family member). His actions were his fault and one of the consequences of them is that all but his mum and dad want nothing to do with him. He is despised for what he did to his victim and what he has done to his family, but we accept that his parents will always love him. The fact that the parents have never tried to hide, excuse or minimise what he did helps.

I'm sorry that your family are minimising what happened to you OP.

[Intacta]

Don't know if this helps, but what you are asking is something I've thought about a lot:

Dysfunctional families need abuse and scapegoating to happen to keep their anxiety down, to function in life, to cement relationships with family members. This would be denied but anxiety levels would rise in the family at large if the secret suffering of some of its members was suddenly ended.

Why does the wider family /community 'look away' or 'blame the victim'? Something I read a while back that helped me understand this better:

The abuser doesn't really ask anything of us. Just to do nothing or look away. The victim, however, is asking something (even if they don't actually ask), their whole situation and trauma requires a response, practical help, validation, the moral courage to speak out on their behalf before they are able to etc