Advice/Experiences re Estranged Family and wedding invitation

[CoyRoy]

Hello,
Have posted previously about going NC with my mother die to her overbearingness, controlling and negative behaviour, the ensuing fallout with my two brothers because of it, and in particular pompous emails from one brother to my husband about bringing me to order. Second brother, though not the author of the vile emails, said he concurred with first brother's stance. He told me I was pathetic to fall out with our mother over her behaviour, and that if/when he has DC he will welcome her advice! He then blocked me on Fb.
It's been about four years since I have seen them, and I am very content, and feel good about it.
Fiancee (have never met her) of the non-email other brother has previously emailed me on Fb saying she'd love to act as a go-between, what can she do to help us all reconcile. I politely replied that I found my family negative and that I was very happy as things are. Their wedding is now getting close, and she has recently emailed me again to ask if I will please consider going, and that it would mean a lot to my mother/brothers. (Father not on scene.) I don't think they are that bothered as they have not tried to make amends. The brother getting married did email when they got engaged to see whether he should bother inviting us. It didn't feel friendly. "You may or may not be aware that me and * are now engaged. We'd like to invite you to the wedding but if things remain as they are, seems little point even sending an invite. In an ideal world we'd all just accept our differences yet here we are. Up to you."

Not really sure what I am asking here. I am really happy without them. I can't imagine going to this wedding and it not being 100% awkward. What would you do/say? In case it is relevant, we live at opposite ends of the country. I have no idea where the wedding is.

[CoyRoy]

LOL!
I have a pang of sadness that baby DD won't be a flowergirl though.

[CodyKing]

She can see a testy reunion - maybe you being announced to enter in some spectacular way - carrying doves - or even a surprise bridesmaid??? Oh lovely - No?

[CoyRoy]

Yes, I see the embarrassment of a missing sister at a wedding. Though B and I haven't mixed socially since adults, so I think most of his friends won't even know about me. We have no extended family so they won't be an issue either re wondering where I am.
I can't see that she thinks she will be the next scapegoat only because I can't believe they've told her the backstory. She will probably be thinking I have made a mountain out of a molehill and all can be fixed with a lovely wedding. She will think her MIL is nice, as she will be on her best behaviour to her - she usually is, with all but blood relations.

She replied to my email asking me to please reconsider. Argh.

[Intacta]

She might unwittingly be trying to please her in laws by rescuing them from huge social shame wrt your absence without them having to approach you safely or directly or cleanly.

Some flying monkeys sense they will be the next scapegoat if they can't get you to comply with the old status quo or get the info flowing to the abusers again (you have stopped that flow for the last 4 years and it's much harder to abuse when that happens). So it could be that she might be 'safer' in your family of origin if she can re engage you, but at cost to you.

I have seen this play out with families or bullies in social circles esp when narcissism is involved.

[CoyRoy]

Thanks for your input, Attila. I feel like giving her the benefit of the doubt. I expect she comes from a happy family and just doesn't understand a big rift, and would love to fix things and have a more complete groom's side at the wedding and happy families going forward. I feel strong enough to cope with her sporadic emails if she does engage again.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

She will likely reply to you now as you have given her an "in" to do so.

If she further replies with waffle then I would be fully prepared to block her, do not respond further. I really do not think she has ever acted in your best interests here, only her own. She is not your friend here.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Coy,

I would not further communicate with the flying monkey that is the fiancée here. It just gives such people an "in". She has not wanted to at all hear your side of things (as further mentioned in my third paragraph).

Flying monkeys fall into two basic categories: willing, complicit partners and well-meaning dupes. The willing, complicit partners also fall into two categories: those who believe that you just need to forgive and forget and they are going to help you do just that (this sounds like this fiancee), and those who just don’t like you and are therefore quite happy to spy on you and to do their bidding. The dupes also break down into two categories: those who are fooled by drama into helping violate your boundaries and those who believe all of the lies and half-truths that the family of origin have spread about you and who want you to see the error of your ways.

By stepping in as one of the flying monkeys she is making one critical…and very disrespectful…error: she has not bothered to come to you and ask you for your side of the story. Any rational, truly well-meaning person wants to know both sides of an issue before they agree to assist one side against the other and they have a thirst for truth.

For your sake I would continue to stay away from all of them. You have managed not to see them for the past 4 years after all quite happily.

[CoyRoy]

Have just sent her my reply. Done.
Thanks for everyone's help.

[CoyRoy]

Nigel, thank you for your thoughts. I don't know. I actually do not get on with my mother at all. I tolerated her prior, because she was my mother. I now feel life is too short to let stressful, negative people in my life, and the lives of my precious children. I do feel some guilt about my obligations to my mother, for being the one to bring me into the world and raise me, but she can adapt her behaviour if she wishes, yet chooses to antagonise me (and my brothers) instead. I don't know why she does this really, but I cba with the games and aggro.
I don't think it is an olive branch really. The marrying brother emailed several months back to say he was getting married and should he bother sending an invitation. I didn't read this as a kind genuine invitation or that he is bothered if we are there - just something so if anyone asks why I am not there, he can say he did invite us but we chose not to go.
The main antagonist is our mother, and if they all wanted us there, I think for the sake of marrying brother she should think what she is doing and be the one to try and fix things. She won't, because I am an underling and she is the mother, and that's the hierarchy.

time, I know several people like that. If only the whole world were lovely. A few people I know, once they know I don't speak to my mother say "but can't you just ...". They really don't get it, and lucky them!

99, thanks for input. I am really glad for you and your dd that you fixed things. I totally feel the same - I will do whatever it takes to remain on good terms with my babies.

daisy, you are right, I can't imagine rocking up to the wedding as things are! I don't feel I owe the fiancee an explanation, but maybe it would help her understand why things are as they are, and to not keep trying.
I can imagine they have said to her "CoyRoy doesn't like any opinions that disagree with her, and she's gone off in a huff. So petty.", when it's far more serious than that.

[daisychain01]

CoyRoy, I admire what you've done because you lived that relationship with your DM and you are therefore the only person who knows that it made you unhappy and made the right decision for you.

You shouldn't be sucked back into a family that didn't make you happy. Certainly not by an outsider who hasn't got the foggiest what the history was, from your perspective.

But I am happier without my mother and brothers in my life. I doubt you got an unbiased version of events
There is no need for you to justify yourself to her! She may well want you to attend her wedding but at what cost to you?. You could be going back into the lion's den at the reception, everyone will probably be drinking and you could be confronted by recriminations and your DM and DBros against you.. Why put your head above the parapet after 4 years just to please her?

Reconciliations and weddings don't mix!

[newname99]

In the gf's defence she is likely to be judging the 'fallout' between op and family in the same way as a 'fallout' in her family..some gentle words and everything will be OK.I was guilty of this with dh's family but I've learnt the true meaning of toxicity so now would never interfere.I suspect she will learn but if you don't have experience of true toxicity it's hard to imagine it.

Op, I understand your stance.I have a good relationship with my adult DC but last year upset my DD (unintentionally).Once I knew, I did whatever I could to make peace, sure we are both adults and it was a genuine misunderstanding but I am her mum and take the lead to reconcile.She appreciated it and we are closer than ever.Even in adulthood there is the child/parent dynamic so the onerous is on parents is to take the lead.

I dont think a wediing is the right time to reconcile and I agree your mum should be reaching out to you.

[Thisismyfirsttime]

She is lovely, everyone you talk to says 'oh, isn't Jane lovely?' And I think she's lovely, she is a really nice person, I'm not saying she isn't. But she pokes her lovely nose in everywhere and sometimes she doesn't hear the full story, or is told a version of events by someone and takes it as gospel without wondering if the other party feels differently. Or X will contact her to ask if Y is coming to The Event because Y hasn't got back to them yet and she'll happily ask if Y is going despite X and Y being related and her being just on the outskirts because her partner is Z. Your DB's DF just rung a bell as another Jane!

[NotnowNigel]

CoyR I understand that after 4 yrs NC it would be a massive step to see your family again, and if you did decide to, a family wedding would not be the best occasion with the pressure to be 'happy' and on best behaviour.

However, I think this might be something of an olive branch. Presumably GF has not sent the invitation - or pre-invitation - without the knowledge of your brother or mother. That means that they must have wanted you there and consented to her attempt.

I'm not saying go to the wedding. But it might be the time to review whether you could meet up with your mum and see if you could start something of a relationship again. I think the sadness and distress of not having any family contact only will increase as time goes on. And now you have massively laid a 4 year boundary down of NC you might find that your mum now knows what the stakes are and that she is willing to do as you ask and not offer any unwanted advice.

You might not get another chance. My advice would be to consider very carefully before rejecting it out of hand.

[CoyRoy]

:) She does sounds LOVELY!

[Thisismyfirsttime]

The GF sounds like someone in my extended family. She's LOVELY and everything is LOVELY and everyone is LOVELY. There are no dynamics like yours as such in our situation but from other situations of falling outs/ family members who keep their distance I know she goes for reconciliation because she's so LOVELY and it'd be LOVELY. With no thought that it mightn't be her place to bring everyone back together. Because if she did, it'd be bloody LOVELY!
From what your brother has emailed you I think she may be the only one with these LOVELY sentiments and you should politely reply to her that you unfortunately will not be attending, thank you. And leave it at that.

[CoyRoy]

Sorry, Springy, is it that you are the parent of an adult child who is NC with you?

My post at 20.45 is about me because I know about me and what I want. I don't know what she wants. I think she wants to remain the boss of me, like she was til I reached 16. I think she wants unswerving respect, as my mother, no matter what she says or does. Respect your parents. Tis in the bible. But what if your parents don't deserve respect?
I probably could have carried on doing the nod and smile routine, were it not for my DC - it's for them that I finally told her her behaviour was damaging and I didn't want it around my child.

When I first broached her behaviour towards me once my child was a toddler, I told her I'd be glad to have her around if she could refrain from all the negative comments. So I see it as the ball being in her court, and she would rather have her say than see me and her grandchildren.

[CoyRoy]

Cody, I have not heard that either brother have children yet. I don't know 100% but I think word would have reached me.

Indeed! Though I do think my mother wouldn't treat her as she treated me - she didn't say anything to DH about our parenting choices, or any other stuff - just to me. I expect she will save her comments for my brother. Or, remote chance she has learnt her lesson with me and will keep quiet.

Thank you. xx

[vic1981]

Springydaffs, have you had success resolving being NC with your own children, that might be of use to the Op?

[CodyKing]

What rubbish!!! OP made a decision - that's not what is in question here - she has proven to herself she is happier without her mother - her mother was given chance to change the dynamic and refused any of OP suggestions -

Life's too short to be miserable

What normal parent doesn't want to have a happy relationship with their child? Encourage them, help them, keep your mouth shut!!!

[springydaffs]

What is the difference between difficult and toxic?

An ocean.

She is fully capable of reaching out and making amends, but she has chosen not to

And so are you - and you have chosen not to. It's not all her op, you are both adults. If that's what you want then ok - but don't put it all on her.

[springydaffs]

Has she chosen that course? Or have you tried to force her to change.

It's a hard question but you seem to have a harsh yardstick - but look who was your teacher...

Your post of 20:45:18 talks exclusively about you - how you feel, what you want. What about her? There are two of you in this relationship. She is a human being - granted, she hasn't acted like it. But she is. You seem to have no cognisance that she is a human being. What does she want in this?

Part of becoming adult is to face and accept our parents are flawed - sometimes drastically flawed. It may be that NC is the right course to take in your circs but let's look at it from all sides and not jump to conclusions, posters.

Op, I wish I could tell you that 'doing all you can to prevent NC' from your own children is enough.

[CodyKing]

Can I ask if either brother has their own children?

I wonder how GF will be treated when they come along? Sounds like you might want to send GF some MIL threads on here!!!

Poor lamb - you don't owe anyone an explanation - you don't need to be drawn into any dirt digging -

Keep your dignity - she won't listen -

[CoyRoy]

I did address boundaries, and she stomped all over them, asserting her position as matriarch and ever the boss. I am too old for her nonsense, and she was bringing me down. And most importantly, I do not want that influence around my children.
What is the difference between difficult and toxic?

She really is the one that drove the wedge. I asked her to respect my parenting choices (she kept on and on about how things were done in the 70s and that that's how I should be doing things, no mention of current research), deliberately enjoys winding me up, asked me when I was losing the baby fat about six months after I'd had my baby (and I was only up a size really from pre-baby), various demoralising, negative stuff like that. Draining. I asked her to consider her words, and she stated she would not; she would say what she liked.
I don't expect a wonderful family, as I never had that. I just hoped they wouldn't be quite so negative and down on me.

She is fully capable of reaching out and making amends, but she has chosen not to. There is no way I would treat my own children like that. I'd do whatever it took to stay in their lives as much as they'd have me.

[vic1981]

Springydaffs, are you the poster who has children who have chosen to go NC?

[springydaffs]

Coy - I come from a very toxic family. Right up there. I know what toxic is.

What you describe is a very difficult woman. Very difficult indeed. It looks to me that it could have been that the onus was on you to address your boundaries, not necessarily to press the nuclear button to avoid that.

I know how difficult this is when there has been a very troubled history - ongoing.

I wonder if what you want (expect?) is a wonderful family, close and supportive. Well, a lot of us don't get that. The solution is not the polar opposite: to cut them off. You say you felt she overshadowed your parenting and ruined it for you - but why so close? Did you expect the family to be close and, when it wasn't, you cut it off?

Some of us get a pretty grubby deal when it comes to families. That's just how it is. I know those with toxic families can't hear this. I appreciate that. But it isn't always the case that all have the same toxicity in their parents; therefore NC is not appropriate, especially as it is a very serious step to take.