how to handle meeting with therapist over exp pursuing contact with dd

[cestlavielife]

long background but dd is now 16, so any court order for contact not relevant zero contact with her dad since Oct 2014 following incident which was an assault and investigated by SS and deemed inappropriate behavior (was unwanted tickling and invasive, tho not sexual as such). SS recommended no contact unless DD wanted/initiated it. previously she had declined contact, had been let down so many occasions with false promises, had witnessed him being aggressive and violent, had witnessed him attack younger dd (tho youngest has forgiven him, accepting this was when he was depressed therefore she puts it into part of his depression/MH) and hid if he came near house tho tolerated public outings occasionally eg sibling birthdays etc.

exp long history severe MH episodes including aggression, abusive/controlling etc. I left (moved out of jointly owned property) in 2008 with 3 DC. younger dd 13 has weekly contact, often is let down and arrangements not kept. she organizes directly, knows that a promise to eg go swimming may or may not be kept.... other DS disabled, exp sporadic contact eg none in jan feb then 3 x for two hours each during march.

so, exp (who refused to attend a family group conference in 2015) has been pursuing "family therapy" to get contact with dd. psychiatrist from local family centre emailed me to ask if i would meet jointly to discuss a "way forward" and that he has great experience in families where child refuses to see non resident parent....

I have said i would meet privately first to give factual background - i have GP letters, SS report etc. I have no intention of forcing dd to have contact and certainly not while she in midst of GCSEs (I have said as such to exp he has emailed "exams are no excuse! you have stopped her having contact with me for 18 months!"
you get the picture...everything is clearly my doing and nothing to do with his behavior towards her...

I have learned from past experiences in such meetings to a) get the factual background in as exp misses out on crucial facts when he puts his "side" eg claiming he has not seen the Dc for 12 months when he has seen them just not on his terms ("so when did you last see the DC"? "last week, but it was only at the park so didn't count, I haven't seen them properly for 12 months") ,; or not telling a therapist he had had severe MH episodes which impacted on his ability to have contact with the DC i.e. there were times it was not safe for contact to happen - it was not just my whim!; and sticking to a script...

and to be prepared for him to go on about how on xx date in xx year i did xxx to him... he goes on the attack... I dont want a session to be about me defending myself for every accusation
I am also wary of therapists who want to see both sides neutrally ... and may not come down on him for his attack on DD...

I suppose I would like to have a professional tell him to back off (harassing me about seeing DD/blaming me etc ) and for exp accept that the damage has been done..by him to DD - .and he would have to really show some respect and - what? - if he and dd are to have an adult relationship in future...

could this meeting be helpful or will it backfire?
how can I present facts without looking like a mad ex?
how can I make sure I am not coming across as parental alienation etc etc...
how can I make sure ground rules are no accusations etc.; while ensuring his attack on DD is acknowledged?

[amarmai]

thanks for this info,op. i am amazed that this cd be considered fair to the mother and cc who have been suffering from the abuser .Is it not bad enuf to have been abused ? Those who have been abused are not responsible for their abuse. This approach seems to have a blame the victim aspect to it ,if the abused are told they are to help the abuser. WHY? when a woman and dcc manage to escape their abuser and are trying to stay clear of any involvement with him, this so called 'therapy' wd force them back into his clutches for more EA . This is boiling my piss. Stay strong,op.

[cestlavielife]

I agree amarmai.
and I will follow this.

I was also pointing out above a new school of thought which seeks to engage the whole family in systemic "treatment" of the abuser.... this could be dangerous...

[amarmai]

put yourself and your dcc first. he is not your responsibility. Get all the practical necessities dealt with and if you and your dcc need therapy , you can arrange this without ex being involved.He might benefit from the approach you outline, but again, he is not your responsibility.BTW i have no qualifications in any area except the school of hard knocks.

[cestlavielife]

eg as far as he is concerned he has never done anything to harm or hurt dd1. he has exercised his rights as a father to do what he likes with her "i can tickle her if i want to" and in any case it is my fault somehow...

on that basis you could never ever have systemic therapy with him and DD1

[cestlavielife]

I agree biblio, I think where there has been open acknowledgement and genuine remorse .. . but in that case you probably would not be in situation of courts, court orders, constantly on the defensive etc.

as Lundy Bancroft says, few actually reform.

Exp has continued to state repeatedly that he has had no role to play in anything ... everything has been my fault etc etc

[bibliomania]

If this condition could be met: "the offender's acknowledgment of the abuse, commitment to abstain from abuse, and willingness to address this issue honestly and openly", I could potential merit in this proposal.

I know that my ex would never, ever, ever admit to being abusive. If he did, I think it would be very validating for dd. I think there are very few abusers who would ever be able to meet that condition.

[cestlavielife]

ps i do not intend to get involved in any further meetings; tho i need to get mediation organized over outstanding financial and property issues - that i would prefer to do with a regular mediator.

[cestlavielife]

dd1 wont be involved in any meeting unless she expresses a wish to pursue contact (i doubt she will)

ds has cognitive level of toddler and will benefit from regular contact so long as it remains safe

dd2 more complex she wants contact and arranges it but gets annoyed/upset/anxious when is let down

there is a move towards systemic family therapy/systemic approach , involving someone who has been abusive etc within a "moving forward" approach, which this psychiatrist/therapist is a proponent of. .

www.nctsn.org/content/interventions-children-exposed-domestic-violence-core-principles

"There is an evolving interest among child-focused therapists to involve the offending parent in the treatment of children when it is safe and clinically appropriate to do so. Because children may maintain strong psychological ties (and, in many cases, direct access) to their offending parents, involving them in the therapeutic treatment provides an opportunity to directly address the impact of the violence on the child and family. An important component of this work is the offender's acknowledgment of the abuse, commitment to abstain from abuse, and willingness to address this issue honestly and openly within the family (Groves, Van Horn, & Lieberman, 2006)."

www.familytx.org/research/articles/couples%20therapy.html

Recent, as well as ongoing research indicates the advocacy of couples counseling as an effective treatment for high conflict as well as domestically violent couples. While this is controversial, if we are able to look past the politics, it certainly fits with clinical experience as well as with theoretical models of systemic influences on family dynamics.

this is a movement which is indeed controversial and goes against everything pvsly recommended.

there is more online on systemic approach, systemic family therapy, multicontextual systemic approach

it seems largely to be about involving other family members in "treating" the one member who has the MH issues or violence issues.

what do you think?

when i attended family therapy back in 2008 with exp the therapist then at least told him to own his "depression" himself and that it was "his" not mine...also when dd2 went they were keen to point out she was not responsible for dad's behaviours...she would say she felt she had to do x to keep him happy.

this approach seems to make any issue belong as much to the other family members/ex partners/DC?

[amarmai]

your dds do not need this 'therapist' manipulating them into being under the control of their abusive father. I wd not go to any meetings with this wo/man as it will only take up your time and energy and upset you. send the names and telephone #s of the relevant agencies who have helped you to deal with your ex and let the 'therapist 'check out what is the truth . Send a copy to his boss .

[bumblebeep]

I'd definitely give the above linked people a call for advice in that case.

[cestlavielife]

Says is a psychiatrist.

[cestlavielife]

I don't intend to follow further. .. it does seem rather odd.... spoke to friend who knows the centre and found it odd too... asked who was paying? (No idea I have not had a bill...)
since I went exp has declared by text that he knows I saw dr x and so now he will see ds every week at set time picking up from an activity he goes to then dropping back home later. So this has miraculously happened twice but I won't hold my breath as to how long it lasts before he reverts to type or starts making demands. ..
2.5 hours per week is v little.

[bumblebeep]

Or if you don't feel comfortable doing that let me know what qualifications he says he has and any professional bodies he belongs to and I'll tell you how to check for yourself if I can.

[bumblebeep]

Psychotherapist here. I am admittedly more familiar with the ethical guidelines of my own profession but I think this is dodgy as fuck. I strongly recommend you contact the Royal College of Psychiatrists on www.rcpsych.ac.uk/aboutthecollege/contactus.aspx and ask if they can point you to someone who can give advice to a member of the public.

If he hasn't met your ex he can't know if this 'has anything to do with MH issues'.

If he has met your ex then contacting you and sharing information with you is very suspect.

Legally he has safeguarding obligations and needs to prioritise those which he seems not to be doing.

If he is in fact a psychotherapist feel free to PM me his name and I will check his credentials and any professional registration, check for any existing sanctions, etc.

[tippytap]

I think you want validation here. An 'expert' supporting you and your DD and showing your ex how bad he is.

It won't happen.

There is no need for you to be in contact with this therapist at all. If your dd wants to see her father let it be in her own time for her own reasons.

You're getting sucked back in.

Delete and block.

Do not engage.

[goddessofsmallthings]

here is the evidence that ex simply wants to use sessions to bring up the past etc. Therefore I wont be coming to any joint sessions on that basis

Did you make it clear that neither you or your dd will be going to any sessions, joint or otherwise, and how was it left? Will the "psychiatrist", who I assume is a psychologist and therefore not medically trained, be getting back to you after he has spoken to your exp?

[cestlavielife]

update: I decided to go and present info in person after exp on the weekend provided a very useful example of his behavior; I had wassapped “when do you want to pick ds up” and he replied with a torrent of nonsense, over three long messages, not answering the question and deftly illustrating his agenda (“I won’t talk to you until you apologize for your violent behaviour” "the damaging impact of your abusive behavior towards me over the years" "retract your false allegations" bla bla bla "the day you recognize all your wrongs we will move forward" etc,etc ) ….so I snapshotted and printed and was able to show the psych who exactly needs help in moving forward…

psych began with his lines "we would aim to put the past behind.." I said absolutely, but here is the evidence that ex simply wants to use sessions to bring up the past etc. Therefore I wont be coming to any joint sessions on that basis....

I mentioned past MH episodes etc - he pointed at the print out and said "this has nothing to do with mental health issues". quite right.

we also had a little chat about the Archers story line....

he said he would speak to ex and i wished him luck.

I followed up with email with main points as outlined in pps posts above.

thanks all.

[MooseBeTimeForSnow]

And this therapist isn't being jointly ordered by a Court.

[SolidGoldBrass]

I think both the XP and this therapist can safely be told to go fuck themselves. DD is 16 and has no legal obligations to this man: no court will order contact, so the therapist has no right to do anything other than request/suggest a meeting, which you are at liberty to refuse.

What a pity XP's mental health still hasn't got bad enough for him to actually kill himself and get out of your way.

[AmusingMinnie]

The benefits would be helping EX to understand HE has caused this situation and bring about a change in his behaviour if therapist is on side

A letter to the therapist (and their manager) putting across the facts about the abuse and police involvement will enable the therapist to address this without the op present which will enable the ex to drag out his ea and manipulation of her. Even if the therapist hasn't come at this with an agenda his contact has made op and her dd uncomfortable and is opening up emotional wounds that they don't want or need to go back and address. The therapist should be more than happy to receive the letter and respect that fact that op nor her dd want to engage face to face with them over the matter as its their choice.

[cestlavielife]

The fact of being approached has brought up lots of stuff... so as pp.said it feels like harassment... dd is trying to get on with life gcse etc. My job is to protect her (so thinking i could use this to get him to back off ) but while I had good experience with family therapy few years ago when youngest dd attended and I had sessions this feels already like it has a different agenda to push for something dd does not want.... any sessions with ex eg the pre assessment for the family therapy five or six years ago have been very draining. ..tho another one about three years ago I was more prepared.
Could this help protect dd.... I am not so sure and my gut feeling is no.... and think pps are right to point out the cons.

[RaspberryOverload]

speaks on parental.alienation etc...

Wouldn't surprise me to find this chap has aleady pre-judged the case.

[cestlavielife]

No payment as far as I know the centre offers some free services... but the fee element is not clear.. as someone suggested he is in late career seems to have interest in research cases .... speaks on parental.alienation etc...

[rumbleinthrjungle]

Why should the OP give up her time and mental energy to unpack a lot of weighty emotional baggage that is far more distressing for her as the victim of abuse and assault than for ex as the perpetrator, just to help ex's professional fully understand the situation? So he might better help ex understand it? That benefits ex, but why is helping him OP and dd's problem? Going through the process is also rewarding ex in trying to shift responsibility for his actions onto OP and dd, and indulging his seeking to control them and seeing of 'no' as something to be overcome. And that's assuming the professional involved accepts OPs and SSs version of events and doesn't challenge or upset OP, as his stated goal so far is to overcome dds decision on no contact, implying he doesn't feel she has the right to make it. There are a number of potential harms.

It's not relevant. She's sixteen, she says no, that's the end of the issue.