What's the secret of going through life without getting bullied?

[EverythingChangesButChocolate]

I am 39 and feel like I've been bullied all of my life in various, but not every, scenarios.

I was not bullied at primary school but we moved to a new area for secondary school, a town where they don't welcome newcomers, and I was bullied from day one there. It didn't help that I started at the beginning of the 2nd year so everyone else had bonded during the previous year. The bullying did not seem to be limited to one bully or group of bullies, it was loads of kids, male and female. I did eventually make a few friends, whom I am still friends with now, but the bullying was always going on in the background and putting a dampener on things.

I left at 16, went to college, and there was a queen bee type of girl on my course who instantly disliked me and made my year there hell.

Left after a year, got a job. Worked there until I had my eldest child, and it was fine but then when I was pregnant I was totally bullied by my managers. They took my desk and role away from me and were really nasty. I left after having DD.

Since then I have had various bullying situations. I was bullied in another job by the top salesman who didn't like me at all and used to call me a whore and the manager would just laugh, then have a go at me if I complained about how the salesman spoke to me.

I went to a toddler group a few years ago, met a group of women and was friends with them all then suddenly they excluded me and all stopped talking to me, but bitched about me to others.

And now, years later, two mums from my youngest child's year at school have taken an instant dislike to me and have made it clear that they do not like me. I get glares, and they recently organised a mums night out for mums from that year group and I was not invited.

What the hell am I doing wrong? I do have friends but I just meet people that seem to loathe me from day 1! I'm not super quiet or hard work, neither am I loud and opinionated, I'd say I'm just pretty normal really.

I should probably add too that I was brought up by a violent bully dad, who bullied me physically until I left home at 20, and an enabler mum. Both have always told me I'm useless and horrible. Oh and a teacher at secondary school used to join in with my bullying too, and said I was the most unpopular, isolated child she'd ever known!

[SuperFlyHigh]

Another comment CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) I found great for my bullying. One technique I found really worked. Imagine (or draw) a pen (like for sheep etc) you can then choose who you let in and out of that pen (safe people eg your DH etc). The bullies can stay out (or come in!). I found that so helpful also as I'm quite visual.

[Heatherjayne1972]

I feel for you I really do. Some good advice here with the therapy idea Sounds like you need to work on your confidence. Remind yourself of how far you've come think of everything you've achieved that you're proud of tell yourself that you're a good person - you are ! Believe in yourself and rise above the silly cliquey mums in the playground. They in every playground- bet there's loads of mums that's would love to be friendly with you

[SuperFlyHigh]

My last workplace bullying scenario was through a family friend's wife who knew my new boss and worked at my new workplace as a temp along with her permaneny bullying colleague. If I'd her to fuck off or memtioned mental health issues she'd have been into my boss and colleague screaming "how dare super say that".

Someone I don't know now though would certainly use that with.

It is a shame as bullying makes you defensive in fact I may do another assertive course as did a short one years ago and found it very useful.

[EverythingChangesButChocolate]

Oh yes perfect sense and I think you are probably right, Zoe.

I have been thinking a lot about this thread during the past few days, and looking back I am rarely in any groups of friends, I never particularly feel part of things, so I think in part this is why I have been targeted by bullying types.

I don't think I'm very good at the whole group thing though because of how I feel about myself.

[zoemaguire]

I think engaging in a 'telling somebody to fuck off' kind of way still comes under the heading of 'being affected', which gives the bully what they are looking for. It's the genuinely not giving a toss, or giving a good impression of such, that will see off bullies.

Also, I hate to ask, but do you sometimes see a personal rejection where it doesn't actually exist? For instance, I can imagine some mums in my DDs class think there is a 'clique' of mums who all know and chat to each other, and leave everyone else out. The reality is that all you need to do to be included is to be friendly and initiate chat. As proof, our termly pub trips have grown from 3 or 4 mums at the beginning of reception to 15 or 16 now. There is no upper limit! There is no drama, no bitching of any sort and no definitely no bullying. But at the same time, the nature of the school gate is such that with limited time, you tend to chat to people you know. So in order to be included in the group, some effort is needed, nobody will come running up to you. This holds true for an awful lot of groups - what some see as cliquiness is just human nature, ie people sticking to who they know. Not saying that cliques don't exist, but on the whole, people are clumsy, lazy, self-absorbed, but are actually pretty friendly! If you are never included in groups, then this may be for a reason. Not that you are in any way an awful person, im sure you are lovely! but that perhaps you give off defensive vibes? Or that you imagine slights that aren't there? I've been left off group emails sometimes and unless there is reason to believe otherwise, I will assume 'mistake' not 'they all hate me'. And in any group of more than 4 or so, there will be some people you don't gell with, or at least not as well. This is not a failing of the group, it is almost inevitable. If you exclude yourself from the whole group because one person in it appears not to like you, you will likely end up with very few social groups - does that make sense?

[EverythingChangesButChocolate]

Thank you all so much for the replies! Very thoughtful and helpful

The other thing that bothers me about when I've been bullied or getting hassle is if I ever say anything back then I am perceived as being difficult to get on with. At school I did try and say stuff back sometimes or tell people to Eff Off but then my friends would tell me to leave it and one friend in particular would say not to be difficult to get on with, ie take this hassle from others and say nothing back.

Is it just par for the course that if you ignore or defend yourself people will just think you are difficult?

[zoemaguire]

I was bullied as a teenager. I think the key was low self-esteem. I gave her the benefit of being visibly affected by her actions. It does sound victim-blaming, but it's more a case of why bullies pick on particular people rather than others. Now I'm in my late 30s, I can't imagine being bullied. I simply wouldn't put up with it. Somebody did try once with the cutting little comments and subtle putdowns, and I cut off the 'friendship' with barely a backward glance. The key I think is that is I'm pretty happy in myself now. Not to say that I don't have moments of insecurity, but on the whole, if somebody is unpleasant to me I am genuinely nonplussed rather than particularly bothered. There's a mum at school who is weirdly 'off' at my attempts to be chatty, so I don't really bother acknowledging her at all now. It's amazing what giving off an air of confidence does to attract people to you and deter unpleasantness.

Unfortunately I see in my kids that one is sadly much more likely to be bullied than the other. Interestingly it is the more socially adept one who also cares deeply about what others think about him who I fear for. My DD is a loner who gives off serious 'I don't give a fuck' vibes - she's pretty bullet-proof .

In terms of advice, I'd say the key is to work on your own feelings of lack of confidence. Start hobbies that make you feel good about yourself, and make a wide group of acquaintances in different networks so that the loss of one friendship doesn't feel like a catastrophe, and eventually you'll suddenly realise that you care less about what others think.

[Alastrante]

I think the secret is to have a life that goes on beyond those awful people, and when you have the chance, to get rid of shitheads in your life, full stop.

When at school I was bullied and because I lived in a rural village there was really no escape from my life except to head inwards. I wrote novels in my head, got really into music, read a lot. I don't regret any of that or see it as sad. I think I was lucky to have the motivation to learn so much that's brought me pleasure.

When I left home I left that behind and any bullying I've seen attempted on me (e.g. by a particularly belligerent boss) has been water off a duck's back because I have a life with friends, things I do that don't involve work, my inner life. Being able to say 'for some minutes of each day this person will try to be a c**t to me but whatever' is a skill. (Within reason of course!)

The last time I employed it was at the school gate. I sized up the people there, am friends with two of them, but the rest - just not getting involved! Not even trying. Very happy not to have that drain on my time tbh. One mum took against me and did the whole campaign of 'I'm not having it' when I didn't wibble with personal shame when my kid hit her particularly obnoxious and equally belligerent kid. La la la.

Getting rid of shitheads has meant a bit of heartache along the way - sometimes you feel friends have turned on you. With hindsight it's not friends who turn on you, it's people with their own issues and nine times out of ten it's deep-rooted in them (providing you haven't been acting like a sheathed yourself!). I've done it with family too - I'm not particularly hardcore but I definitely don't want drama and unpleasantness in my life unless I ask for it. I distance myself very well and keep my close friends close. It's a good way to be.

Anyway, that's my main advice: do things that YOU love and don't feel the need to share them with people who give you grief. Being you will gradually bring you strength, and those people should fade into the background of your life. Good luck!

[rendit]

Most adult 'bullies' are cowards with low self-esteem.

Most of the misogynist male bullies I've come across in the workplace have been either short or physically unattractive in some way.

A lot of people feel anxious in social situations and can feel as if total strangers are 'judging' them harshly or negatively.

The reality is that most people are so wrapped up in their own lives that they probably haven't even noticed you, let alone formed an opinion.

[MoominPie22]

Do you not think sometimes though, we come across differently to how we think we do?

I think I come across as quietly confident ( not in a loud, bolshy, gregarious sort of way ) with positive, open body language. I know the whole bit about having an open posture, head up, shoulders back, eye contact, smile, ask questions to people about themselves and listen blah blah blah.....but I sometimes wonder if I´m exuding something which contradicts all that.

I´m the sort of person who finds it difficult to walk into a room full of strangers and just break the ice, or if I do I find it hard to keep the conversation going. I moved to a new area where I didn´t know a soul and found a large playgroup based in a hall. You would think having a kid would be a great ice-breaker, but I went and everybody seemed to be having a great time, chatting to eachother and I just didn´t know where to put myself.

My friend, who I met through that playgroup, later told me how she found me standoffish when she first met me, but she´s one of those loud, gregarious people who seem to attract people like flies and are always popular and happy, whereas I´m a bit more reserved and quiet. It´s a shame that us quiet ones get labelled as unfriendly just because we don´t have an outgoing personality.

So that then made me question, ¨ How do I actually come across to others?¨ I hope I don´t come across as detached and unfriendly but how can you realistically assess yourself? It´s difficult. So I think it´s the shy, quieter people who can be left feeling lonely and isolated cos they have to make more effort in getting to know others and sometimes it´s just too much like hard work, to keep slogging away, but I realise people aren´t mind readers. Nobody´s gonna come knocking at our door asking if you wanna come hang out and be friends.

So maybe those with a quieter disposition are more at risk of attracting bullies or bitchy, nasty people in general. I think with me my upbringing had a lot to do with it as that heavily influences the personality that you end up with.

[boodlekazam]

Your story is a lot like mine.
Only my Dad's abuse was emotional... sorry you suffered physically too.
I'm 30 with a DD of my own and found similar patterns growing up, finally I was bullied during my pregnancy.
Mat leave enabled me to seek counselling as I was determined not to allow my DD to see me treated this way. I discovered my low self esteem a big cause for my bullying past. I am overly nice to people, overly polite, too keen for people to like me. I read a few self help books during mat leave to build me up and returned to work stronger. I'm polite and friendly with everyone but that's it. I've no desire to mix with anyone who cuts me out or makes me feel anything other than good. I've started being assertive when unhappy about something (my office was cleared out during my mat leave and all thrown away) so I told them I was furious at the lack of respect for my belongings and threatened to speak to the director next time. I make my voice deeper, clearer to show I have confidence. It's all a work in progress, but it's really working. People are changing the way they relate to me at work completely.
It really is all about you and the way you see you. Know yourself and be yourself. The rest follows xxx

[pocketsaviour]

And as for bullies, the last time someone tried to bully me I looked at them really sympathetically and asked if they had any mental health issues. Before they could reply I told them there was help available if they did and if they didn't, then to just fuck off. With a smile of course.

Brilliant pallas ! May have to add that one to my repertoire

My son (he's 20) phoned me last night to say he'd told off some guy who was shouting at his girlfriend and threatening to hit her. They live in the flat underneath him. Or the girl does and the guy keeps coming round and staying. DS told the guy to fuck off or he'd smack him. He said then the guy was cringing like a whipped dog, kept saying to my DS "Oh it's alright mate, I know what you mean mate, so anyway mate have you lived here long? I like your beard, how long you been growing it mate?" PATHETIC

[pallasathena]

Totally agree. If people ignore you, just blank them. Don't engage if they've ignored you after you've tried to reach out.

I used to say to myself its their loss not mine, if people don't want to know me.

And as for bullies, the last time someone tried to bully me I looked at them really sympathetically and asked if they had any mental health issues. Before they could reply I told them there was help available if they did and if they didn't, then to just fuck off. With a smile of course.

[MoominPie22]

I´m not sure it was always bullying with me but from an early age I feel like I attract bitchy females and wanker men. Right from being in First school I remember vividly a girl a few yrs younger than me asking, ¨Why are you so ugly?¨ I remember her name but I think I´d get told off on here if I said.......

Then in High school I was picked on, though no more than anyone else really. Mostly it was cos I was an early developer and was the 1st to get spots, the 1st to wear a bra etc...I think with kids it just takes someone to stand out from the crowd for whatever reason and the twats will home in on you!

But I think in nearly every workplace I´ve been I seem to attract negative attention. Usually it´s from bitchy women who seem to take a dislike to me for literally no reason whatsoever. But once I worked in a male dominated environment, I was 1 of 4 women, and one guy took it upon himself to start calling me ugly to his colleagues who joined in and would make jokes about gargoyles. I quietly went about my work but I was fucking seething!

But then a deputy manager joins in the banter. So I go straight round to the guy who started it and started laying into him verbally, properly bawling and yelling at him. Got a lot of attention that did! Oh yeah and one of the women was bitchy towards me too....seriously, I´ve got too many examples to list...

I think cos generally I get on with men easier than women in the workplace cos I hate bitchiness and gossip and I find you can have a good laugh with men without being all flirty and pathetic, other women don´t like that. But there´ll be many reasons.

Also, cos I come from a dysfunctional family where I may as well have been a plant pot, the amount of interest that was shown me, no praise, no encouragement, no telling me I was loved, I could do anything I wanted etc etc, all the things I tell my daughter now...oh and not forgetting, I never ever got told I was pretty so that awful girl in first school and the getting picked on about my acne and then the men saying I was ugly....well I´ve had issues with my looks my whole life and a poor body image. I go round hating the way I look but I think I´m good at acting confident cos I know what is good body language and positive non-verbal communication.

But I wish I could hijack a T.A.R.D.I.S and go and take revenge on all the nasty bastards that ever made my life a misery and ruined my enjoyment of life. I´m 39yrs now and I can´t forget a comment that was said to me in first school in the 1980s...what does that tell you? But Iḿ afraid, with no positive reinforcement to offset the negative comments, coupled with poor self-esteem from my home environment....it´s like I gave off some kind of vibes or pheremones or something and all the dickheads come running to me...

So OP I can´t offer any advice but I just wanted to say you´re not alone. It´s like they have a 6th sense or something, honestly. But I´d love to go back in time and explain to these peices of shit just how miserable they made me feel, negative comment reinforcing negative comment wherever I went...now I have low expectations of people in life and can count my friends on 1 hand. Oh well....

[SevenOfNineTrue]

There are lots of good suggestions on here. I have been bullied in the past but have learnt to deal with anyone who tries it on now.

One point that I have picked up is that some of these instances where you have been frozen out might not have been about 'you' as a person. I have found myself and through friends experiences when entering a new group, whether it be a mums group or a new workplace etc, there can be complex dynamics going on. Sometimes you get a ringleader who delights in using the group as their own 'gang' and excluding people for a vast number of petty reasons.

[RiceCrispieTreats]

Has anyone got any tips on how I can become less sensitive?

Build up your self-esteem. People who feel secure about themselves are not thrown off-kilter by digs and attempts to belittle or control.

IME it works best if you follow lots of different angles at once: professional therapy, treating yourself nicely like you would a child in your care (exercise, rest, treats, praise), and setting yourself up for success in various achievements (can be small like putting up a shelf, big like running a marathon,...)

[ThisHorseCalledDonny]

CBT: might not work for everyone but really helped me understand my own though process. I de sensitised myself to all sorts of stuff and it's still working years later. It was a bit of a slog at the time but really worked. I did mine online, so didn't even have to schlep off to any sessions.

Try through your GP as a first resort.

[EverythingChangesButChocolate]

Has anyone got any tips on how I can become less sensitive? I think that's the only thing I can do really along with the ignoring?

[ThisHorseCalledDonny]

I think it doesn't matter whether you are shy or aloof, what feeds the bully is you giving the reaction they want.

Sensitive people are definitely vulnerable, as stoic said, many bullies feel shit about themselves and want to see someone else feeling shit. They will hone in on the one person who cares about stuff.

I have certainly seen a bully try to have a dig at a thick skinned mate, she genuinely didn't even notice until it was pointed out to her later, tha same incident wound have had a more empathetic person upset and out of kilter for hours.

[EverythingChangesButChocolate]

I'm not sure whether I come across as aloof or not? I don't think I do, but not 100% certain really. I try to be smiley and friendly and make an effort. I do easily get intimidated by people though.

[TheStoic]

He said it's only people who care that are affected.

I think this is 100% true.

I am in the position at the moment of watching someone in my team being very subtly bullied. I feel very sorry for her, because she is very sensitive and it is obviously really getting her down. She won't take it further though, and has asked me not to do anything about it either.

The thing is, the same people could treat me in exactly the same way they are treating her and A: it would actually take me quite a while to notice, and B. I just genuinely would not care.

Bullies use a scattergun approach. It is NEVER your fault if you are targeted by a bully. But you do have the power to decide how you respond to it.

[springydaffs]

It's so not true that it's the shy types who get bullied!

Bullying is sometimes about projection, always about power. It's ALL about them, the bully. You can't be thinking it's you bcs that becomes a self-fulfilling fear. It has nothing to do with you, it's all about them.

Bullies are weak and cowardly. Remember that. Do you need to bully anyone? What sort of person gets a kick out of bullying anyway?

[Alisvolatpropiis]

Are you sure you're not giving off an aloof vibe, as a result of your previous experiences?

I only ask because I was bullied horribly at high school and consciously developed a new, quietly confident persona, in my late teens.

However to others I came across as aloof, haughty and slightly intimidating (so I was told when I asked a friend why people didn't warm to me, they told me this kindly!), in my early 20's so I spent the next couple of years honing it a bit so now I come across as more outgoing than I often feel. It's not always easy to not care and smile anyway, but it has I think, made me a happier person overall.

People perceive me to be confident and friendly (if still slightly aloof due to my natural bitchy resting face) and treat me more positively as a result.

[ThisHorseCalledDonny]

Some good stuff on here.

I totally agree with the point up thread that some people are bullies. Because they enjoy it. And they will test everybody they meet to see if they can elicit the response they want. If they don't get that response then they will move onto someone more fun. Just like a hungry guest at a buffet deciding they don't quite fancy a mushroom vol au vent.

My life as a kid was made hell by bullies, but as an adult no one has ever really messed with me.

I can't even articulate WHY exactly, but I can now usually spot the wankers with a bullying fetish and I can gauge fairly quickly what the response is the one they want and just avoid giving it. This has been bloody hard won I have to say ( I've had bones broken by one twat who'd been bothering me for most of primary school)

Not caring is also important, bullies seem to thrive on the normal human desire to be liked and included. if you can stop caring or at least act convincingly you pull the rug right out from under them.

[EverythingChangesButChocolate]

Thanks so much everyone, so much fantastic advice and support, I really appreciate it.

I think I probably am oversensitive TBH. Then I often end up backing down and moving away from, say, a friendship group because one person is an arse to me, rather than just ignoring them and carrying on being friends with the others like a thicker skinned person would be.

I was on a mums' club internet group when I had my youngest child, and even ended up getting bullied off there because one woman had it in for me, then I felt like everyone was being off with me even though they probably didn't, I just felt sensitive because of that one woman.