Called out FIL for offensive comments

[UngratefulMoo]

Just need to get something off my chest, as I'm feeling a bit wobbly about it all. DH's family are very close and they have been wonderful to me since we married and had DD. FIL is a successful, opinionated man who I get on with quite well, but has a lot of what I consider to be very old fashioned, bigoted views (racist, sexist, homophobic, etc).

I know I can't change his views, but he has a habit of dropping offensive terms into casual conversation and making jokes that I don't think are on and I've been getting increasingly worried about DD picking up on this and thinking these are normal views and ways to behave.

Anyway, last night at family dinner I called him on it. I wasn't planning on doing it then, but we got into a debate and I just felt like I had to say something. Big row ensued, with him accusing me of saying that I didn't want him to see DD just because we didn't have the same views. That is NOT what I meant, and I do want him to see DD, I just don't want him casually dropping words like 'poofter' and 'wog' into conversation around her!

I'm feeling a bit shaken up about it all as there will definitely be some fall out and I have no idea how it will affect relationships moving forwards, but I think I had to say something, didn't I?

Interestingly, the rest of the family seemed to be supportive of me and I didn't get the feeling that any of them were upset with me for saying something, although SIL in particular got quite upset at the row, so I will apologise to her for making her have to witness it.

I have been very worried about upsetting everyone, and about what happens now, but I don't think I can regret it - I had to say something sometime and if it hadn't been last night it would have been some other time. Not sure I'm asking for advice, just feels better to write it all out!

[seeminglyso]

I ha e fallen out with my own father for over a year for much less than this - I also had a show down with my own father in law because he asked me if I was 'some sort of feminist'. The words you described are pretty bad and there is no way I would tolerate that! Your child lives in a global world and if she starts using that sort of vocab people would think she is from a family of Britain First type fodder. You did the right thing!

[Cabrinha]

I echo those who say you handled it brilliantly, and you don't need to do anything more. No apologising to anyone.
I think you're right to see PIL again soon to avoid any awkwardness from a break - but don't make anything of it. (unless he does it again!)

I speak as someone who gave their FIL an earful in public when he said after the school nativity, in the hall still, "oh they have a mongol in the school"
Which would have bad enough if he'd just muttered "I can't keep up with what words are PC" instead of trying to insist "it is not offensive, if the parents find it offensive that is just their choice to be offended etc etc".
I was firm in my wish for him to not use that language, but I did also say he didn't want to see me if I ever got called to school to explain why my child had called a classmate that
My FIL is an arse.

[sykadelic]

FWIW I agree with your point but agree that a private conversation later would have been better. However it doesn't always work out the way we want and he did give you a pretty good opening.

You can't change what some people believe and ultimately they can believe in whatever they want... BUT this doesn't mean you should have to listen to it, or subject your child to it. I don't believe in sitting there silent because it makes people think that you agree with them, but I'm more of a one-eyebrow raised kind of response than a confrontation kind of person.

Given their responses (MIL's hug, FIL saying he respected you for being honest) then I think it should be okay, but as you said, awkward. I'd say you've really challenged how FIL thinks you feel about him (he didn't know you felt this way and it's was undoubtedly a bit of a shock to him) and I think it will be important to tell him what you've said here, that in many ways he is a wonderful grandfather and that of course you wouldn't withhold DD from him but to remember that DD is only a child and to only have child appropriate conversations around her.

[LittleLionMansMummy]

I'd actually like to congratulate you OP. Too many people let this kind of language slide unchallenged. It's horrible language (and attitude) regardless but certainly not something for little impressionable ears and you were right to say so. Perhaps when the dust settles a bit, reinforce that you are not saying he shouldn't see your dd, but that you would like him to mind his language in front of her. It's about respect for your wishes as much as the fact that his views are prehistoric and nobody wants to hear them. The trouble is that you can choose your friends (and almost certainly wouldn't choose a friend with your fil's views) but are forced to spend time with your family, together with their annoying ways.

[UngratefulMoo]

Thank you for all the supportive comments on here. It's helped me feel much calmer about the whole thing!

[OnlyLovers]

3bunnies, you could tell your FIL that we don't have completely free speech in the UK (apologies if you're not in the UK!); the imperative not to use hate speech, which is enshrined in law, outweighs freedom of speech, and terms like 'wog' and 'poofter' are most certainly hate speech.

[3bunnies]

We have had similar issues with FIL and the only argument which did work is the school argument. He would counter (and still does) arguments of the views being offensive as infringement of his free speech and that we were censoring him. He still thinks that it is awful that there isn't 'freedom of speech' in school. Happily our dc have grown up with a very open perspective and our 5yr old is quite happy to discuss men marrying men and one of our older dd's best friend is a Muslim and says how nice it is to have friends from different backgrounds.

[rumbleinthrjungle]

• Families?! Family. Gah. More needed obviously.

[rumbleinthrjungle]

Good for you, I'd have done the same thing. This will blow over, his pride is hurt but he's going to have to get over it, these are not acceptable views any more. Dd will also remember that you drew a line. You can always have a quiet word with her about different generations.

I sat through similar conversations as a child, and me and Dsis both had to break it to our families some years later that one was a lesbian and the other bisexual... egg on faces, certainly!

[BackforGood]

I think - from your later posts that you don't need to do anything. Your MiL supports / agrees with you, and even your FiL acknowledged you are right to stand up for your opinions. From what you say it was a frank and open discussion, but was just that - a discussion, not a screaming row with abuse being hurled at one another.
Seems to make a lot of sense to go round soon, and not bring it up particularly.
If he brings it up, then you could say how much you appreciated what he said at the end, as you were aware that your views are very different from his, and had no intention of starting a row or making anyone feel uncomfortable, and that he hopes he knows you love him and think he's a wonderful grandfather, but you just can't stand by without challenging what you consider to be very dated, and now offensive language.

[OnlyLovers]

Nerf, maybe they just didn't have the guts to speak up as the OP did and have sat through years of family occasions cringing at him.

I do not agree that comments like that should be borne in silence just for the sake of politeness or the fear of upsetting some delicate flower like the FIL.

OP, I would go to see them quite soon, but I wouldn't volunteer an apology or even bring it up.

[UngratefulMoo]

OnlyLovers - I am really hoping you are right. He was definitely shocked and upset and there will be some awkwardness next time we see them. DH and I have discussed and think we should make plans to go and see them fairly soon - in the next few weeks - just to make the point that we're not trying to minimise contact.

In many ways FIL is a wonderful grandfather, but PPs are right - he has very rarely been challenged on his offensive views (or the way he expresses them) and I, for one, was fed up of trying to smooth it over and pretend it's ok for him to say things like that.

The biggest relief was when MIL gave me a huge hug and told me she thought I was wonderful and that FIL was a grumpy old git!

[Nerf]

Not really, the other people have lived with it for years and years. So a quiet word rather than a sudden confrontation is much better.

[OnlyLovers]

PS I don't agree with those saying the OP should say she's worried about her DC getting into trouble at school for parroting the offensive language. She doesn't need to justify what she said. It's out-and-out unacceptable to talk like that, full stop.

[lemisscared]

We don't see BIL anymore partly because of his racist views and the fact that he would happily use racist words in front of my DD. I didn't want to have to explain the N and P words to her

Its no loss, BIL is a cock

[OnlyLovers]

at the end he told me that he respected me for being honest with him, although I had hurt his feelings.

To me that sounds like quite a good and harmonious outcome, TBH. Will there still be negative fallout despite it ending like this?

NB I apologise if that sounds as though I don't believe you or am minimising or anything: I do NOT mean to do so AT ALL and am 100% on your side regarding calling him out.

Nerf, IMO there are times when challenging unacceptable language outweighs politeness or etiquette and this sounds like one of them. If anything, the person who should have worried about etiquette is the FIL –by the sound of it, most of the others present were supportive of the OP and therefore the majority of people at dinner were probably the ones offended by the language, not him.

[Branleuse]

you did the right thing. Hideous language

[ShadowSuperNova]

What to do next?

Personally I would carry on as normal - i.e. no apology for the disagreement.

If he uses offensive language in your presence again, or brings the row up, I would repeat that I don't want offensive language being used around me / DC. The argument about DC getting into trouble at school etc if they parrot the offensive language might also help him to see he needs to watch his language.

[pointythings]

You did the right thing. The situation may not have been ideal, but given what he said at the dinner table re 'turning people gay' - that is absolutely unacceptable language and therefore he created the situation by saying it. At that point, waiting for a one to one moment was no longer an option. Ultimately he brought this on himself.

[avocadotoast]

I think you absolutely did the right thing.

I have an uncle (related by marriage - my mum's sister's husband) who often drops racist terms. He was talking about someone's baby at Christmas and said "you'd never know he was half p**i". My mum called him out on it and the rest of us backed her up. I dread to think what he says around my cousin as she's only 4 - and as pp have said, if she repeats stuff at school she'll be in trouble.

[UngratefulMoo]

(Nerf - he was telling me that he thinks gay pressure groups like Stonewall are trying to 'turn' young people gay and it was my responsibility as a parent to protect her from those kinds of negative influences.)

[UpNorthAgain]

OP, you were right. My brother used to come out with comments that are so racist I would be embarrassed to repeat them here, but pretend he was joking, as if that made it OK. His daughter picked up on them and laughed along. When my daughter was getting old enough to understand, I remember commenting to my dad (with whom I have a very close relationship) that DB had better stop making those comments in the hearing of my DD as I didn't want her growing up racist. My dad tried to brush it off, saying I was being too sensitive, but I know he must have had a quiet word because my brother stopped.

[AnyFucker]

Good for you

Don't back down now or it will be for naught

Carry on politely standing your ground. The ball is in his court now

I had a similar thing with my MIL a few years ago. She saw sense after a few weeks when I withdrew my usual fully engaged presence. Whether she actually now agrees with my stance is not relevant, but she has changed her behaviour around me at least.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

What do next.... Nothing specifically. Pick your battles but be consistent about what you will and won't tolerate. It's a power thing. People like your FIL get away with being offensive or intimidating others because they go unchallenged. That's why people said they were proud of you. If he knows you're not going to roll over he'll get the message eventually and might even learn tocurb his tongue.

[Nerf]

In not sure. If things are awkward id be tempted to say something like 'I'm really glad we cleared the air, it's a different world we live in and I need DS on board with how we think now' to make it easier and really, to get what you want.
I would probably have steered away at the table tbh, I can't believe he was really telling you to protect your dd from gay people.