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Relationships

My parents don't want to ever see me again...

43 replies

wonderwoman21 · 31/12/2014 15:18

I'm a survivor of a dysfunctional family.
I grew up in a cold environment where affection was in short supply and my mother ruled the roost with strange routines and OCD. I believe she has aspergers syndrome and tourettes.
She told me off so much when I was ill that it has impacted on me badly; I suffer from health anxiety, emetophobia and anxiety and agoraphobia.
My father never stood up to her.
I have tried to get passed all this...by making a life for myself. I have a degree in psychology and one in law and I am a published writer.
Yet the emptiness and anxiety does persist.
I thought compassion and forgiveness was the answer. My parents have never admitted what they did and they never ever will so I thought that as I still love them, I would still try to have a relationship with them. I am adopted. How they got to adopt is beyond me.
But I have a brother (also adopted) and he knows the truth because he said how badly he was treated many years ago. However, he has turned into a nasty person, who has no feeling for others, like an obnoxious, overgrown teenager. When I last saw him, I tried to appeal to him, to say that we shared what we went through, but despite me telling him I love him, he walked out, said I shouldn't see our parents because of my issues with my childhood. Issues he has chosen to now overlook, even though he still said his childhood was worse than mine!
I was meant to meet up with my parents, but they refused to see me because my brother had stirred up trouble.
I can't believe they would listen to him...they were always running him down because of how obnoxious and hateful he could be. He has a temper and hit a woman. They have chosen to believe him over me.
And of course, he wants their inheritance I do believe.
I have sent them cards with special words, I have tried so hard but now they have sent me a letter saying that my brother finally revealed why he was so upset over our last meeting...he was not upset! And they want nothing more to do with me. They will die, they said, without ever seeing me. That I owe them thousands (which I do not) and harped on about the past when I was meant to have misbehaved (yet I was just a normal child in a screwed up family). I have not borrowed thousands from them and nothing they mentioned was unusual considering the awful circumstances.
It should be them asking for my forgiveness.
But the thing is, this breaks my heart...
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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Homebird8 · 02/01/2015 23:05

My DM had a picture in her mind of how things should be. Everything perfect and just as she envisioned it. If things did not fit that picture she redid them again and again, or berated people, or sat down and cried. She lived in a constant state of judgement, and planning,and everlasting work. Nobody else could do anything right, nobody could be ill, nobody put in enough effort.

She made decrees, she exploded in exasperation regardless of who was listening or being made uncomfortable, she could not countenance correction. Alongside this negative view of others' efforts against her perfect picture she was her own worst critic and must have spent most of her life feeling worthless. She certainly suffered from undiagnosed depression at times but never sought help. That would have meant admitting she was in need of it.

Those who made questionable decisions especially ones which she didn't understand such as travelling for longer than a two week holiday, or ones which didn't meet her ethical standards like living together before marriage, could see the people involved pigeon-holed forever as misguided or silly or lacking in discretion. These sound like gentle descriptions but believe me they weren't. They were condemnatory and rigid and timeless. She would bring up tiny misdemeanours two decades later and forgetting has only been brought about by death.

It is a strange world, now she is gone. Finding the OCPD description has helped me to move on.

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HolaCaracola · 02/01/2015 23:28

Hi Wonderwoman

I am so sorry for the pain that you are going through. I can empathise as I have no contact with my family due to their toxic behaviour.

I have found a lot of comfort and good advice from this organisation which supports people who are estranged from their families., which have a secret facebook group, and hold meet ups and group therapy sessions around the UK.

I wish you all the best and hope you find the love and support you deserve.

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HolaCaracola · 02/01/2015 23:29

sorry forgot to put the link.

standalone.org.uk/

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Homebird8 · 03/01/2015 00:05

Sorry wonderwoman, I'm not sure where that came from. I've just never met anyone for whom the OCPD traits hadn't any resonance. I am very sorry that you are in that position.

I lurk on the StatelyHomes thread but haven't joined the conversation, partly because my DM is dead and partly because although the behaviours could be similar I really don't think she had NPD. The people there are genuine and accepting. So different from the judgemental, minimising, denying behaviour which is typical of toxic relationships.

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wonderwoman21 · 04/01/2015 08:18

Homebird8, thank you so much for your thoughts; they resonate very much with my own mother. I know too that she will never forget the past and will always judge me as her wayward daughter, even though I was just a normal girl and then woman, trying to cope in an impossible and emotionally neglectful situation. My father is a weak man, he could have helped us but chose to be ruled by her. This all goes back to him having a controlling mother...he then sought out a woman who wore the trousers. I have since found out that he could have had the pick of women but he chose her. Sometimes (and I feel bad for this) I dream of my mother dying so that I may have a chance of a relationship with my father, who is getting older all the time, but I fear that because he is older than her, he will go first. Who will be there for her then, I do not know. I would like to ask you, how did you cope when you mother died? You sound like a very courageous and caring person. Thank you so much for your contributions to this conversation.
HolaCaracola, thank you very much for that link. I did not know they existed. It looks wonderful and supportive. Bless you for that and your empathy.

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Isetan · 04/01/2015 10:18

Given your parents limitations, NC could be the best that you can expect from them. NC could be a positive development, if you choose to see it as a release from obligation and guilt.

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springydaffs · 04/01/2015 12:41

I feel such sadness, grief and anger. In time, this will get better I know, perhaps more so if I put my energy into projects that are worthwhile.

It's healthy to feel (immense) sadness, grief and anger - you have a lot to be sad, grief-stricken and very angry about!

I do think it's important to pause and allow those feelings to fully realise. I'm not suggesting a lifetime of those feelings, of course, but to connect with them and allow them to play out properly, which can take some time. It's hard to allow those feelings to surface - a therapist would 'hold' you as you do.

I would also suggest your worthwhile project is YOU. Please don't be looking for any more as you already have a giant 'worthwhile project'. You have been raised by insane people, your brother, who should have supported you, has betrayed you. He's done you a favour but it doesn't look like that at the moment. YOu have been let down and abused by everyone in your 'primary' family. That's a lot to be going on with.. Flowers

Thank you very much for that link Hola.

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Homebird8 · 05/01/2015 11:20

Hi wonderwoman, thanks for your kind words. I knew for many years that DM was likely to die from the health condition she had, but none of us thought that she would have as many years as she did, or that the end would come when it did.

It was odd when she did go. I had spent time thinking over what could be honestly said at her funeral. I was determined that I would not reinvent her in front of that congregation, on the other hand I felt it an unfair situation to be too raw in what was said. I described a perfectionist, someone with high standards, a striver for things, and a visionary. Anyone who really knew her would have known what was being said but it seems that not many of the 200 or so people who attended really did know her. Or perhaps they did and I didn't.

I came away from that day wishing that I had known the woman that all these many people had. An acquaintance from our local area told me of how she sought out DM and cried on her shoulder over her problems and worries. DM didn't allow me to do that. Others told me how fair she was and how she appreciated others' viewpoints. I nodded and smiled and thanked them for their kindness and wondered whose funeral I was at.

In the days and weeks that followed I realised many things. One of the first was that all the decrees and expectations were just no longer there. And if they weren't important in the immediacy of her death then they had never been important. So why had they felt that way? I don't know. It made me realise that others' demands could be viewed as requests and that I could make decisions for me and my family without the fear and obligation and guilt that typifies toxic relationships.

Another great realisation was that the emptiness was in effect like one of DM's radio silences, which she instigated sometimes when I had failed in some way. Usually broken when I, not realising I was in the dog house, phoned to be greeted with 'Oh, you are still alive then'. Only this time I was, and she wasn't.

It took a long time before I stopped expecting to be found wanting. I could not work out what was wrong the following Christmas when the day felt odd. I eventually realised that the family was together and we had reached mid-afternoon without anyone having done something wrong. There was no bickering, no blame, and a vast and empty space.

Life after DM is much easier. I mourned for the relationship I had always wanted. I still do. I miss the times when she behaved well, usually when she was in a position of weakness like being in hospital, or when she had decided fun was the order of the day on holiday or the occasional shopping trip and play-acted her part.

I do not miss having to protect my DCs from unwelcome comments about behaviour, food intake, and comparisons with the fictitious child I had grown up with as an imaginary brother (DM's imaginary son was perfect in every way). I do not miss the disappointment which was always expressed with my body, my thoughts, my efforts, my choices and my actions.

I still never come up to standard, that voice in my head that she put there over so many years is strong. I am only now learning that I do not have to allow myself to be treated badly. I am only just aware that I can have desires of my own, or opinions which might be agreed or disagreed with, but that they are ok because they are mine. I am only now being the mother I choose, most of the time, rather than the one role modelled for me or the one which is the diametric opposite of that.

It is a strange new world. My only regret is that I did not have the opportunity to learn these things earlier in my life and and avoid more of the FOG.

A diatribe I know. You asked. I am not used to having anyone care about what I think and I'm not good at turning off the tap. I'm sending you Flowers for your journey and hope that perhaps something of what I have shared might be of use to you. Feel free to PM if it helps.

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springydaffs · 05/01/2015 13:55

Lovely, lovely, lovely post, Homebird. Precious.

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Homebird8 · 05/01/2015 19:33

Thank you springydaffs. And there goes the power of MN again. The lovely wonderwoman reached out and in doing so somehow unblocked the words in me. Thank you so much for that wonderwoman and I am so sorry for overloading your thread.

I know too that she will never forget the past and will always judge me as her wayward daughter, even though I was just a normal girl and then woman, trying to cope in an impossible and emotionally neglectful situation.

That memory for every little niggle which doesn't fit how things 'should' be in their minds is, I think, the most difficult thing. Not only are we "wayward" as you so beautifully noted (again a gentle word for a not gentle accusation) but the list of our failings just gets longer. And each one is judged with that judgement never to be changed, just added to with the ongoing moments of our lives. I feel for you. It is absolutely normal to make choices and when none can be made without measurement against an invisible standard we are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

There is no way around it unless somehow we can become not human, flatten ourselves to 2d and place ourselves pristine between the pages of a photo album.

I was never right in reality, DM preferred her people to be presented on paper. The perfect photo, the certificate of achievement (unless in her eyes that was an unacceptable, but still happy marriage), the drawing sent to her by a grandchild. Not for her the mess of a real life expressed and shared, not for her the noise of a child or the food dropped by accident from a plate, not for her struggles and imperfection unless her own which could be stripped and wailed over.

My father is a weak man, he could have helped us but chose to be ruled by her.

I am so sorry you were equally let down by your DF. I am lucky that although mine was also unable to be emotionally mature in her presence I don't feel that he was anything other than a victim too. Many people on MN talk about the weak adult partner parent as an enabler. I am still thinking about this aspect of my relationship with DF.

He was denied and minimised all his life, firstly by his birth family and then by DM. I only see the real him, the person he could have been, as he is nurtured in his new relationship by a loving and open DP. I always felt close to him, a fact that DM noted and complained about. I struggle to blame him for not providing better protection. I think I still need more time to understand that relationship. He was the other adult in the house when I was a child and perhaps could have done more, but then, I was an adult for half of my life with DM still in it and I still played the game too.

Sometimes (and I feel bad for this) I dream of my mother dying

That is something I went through too, and found when the time came I was more prepared to act well through the death and the immediacy of the loss. And it is a loss. Don't judge yourself for it. Use it to create a sense of self and empowerment which might help you now. Perhaps it will help you adapt how you behave to be true to yourself rather than your DM's picture of you as imperfect.

a chance of a relationship with my father

If this is to happen in a way which works for your now then you may have to be imaginative. What are things like between you? Is he an enabler who springs to your DM's side or is he flailing around too, not sure, or able to act and under the FOG himself? Or is he actively disfunctional in his own right? How much contact do you have with your DPs? Is it ever good, even for a moment?

Thinking of you Flowers

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HexBramble · 05/01/2015 22:15

Some beautiful writing from such a painful topic. There is light in your souls, despite the darkness. Home bird and Wonderwoman - I bring no help nor advice, but your writing has such beauty. Strength to you both.

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wonderwoman21 · 06/01/2015 11:26

Thank you Isetan for your thoughts. I can also see NC being a positive development. Despite the feelings of missing my parents through loving them unconditionally, it brings relief. Every time I saw them, it was always traumatic for me. My mother would ignore my anxiety and agoraphobia and suggest we do things I found so very hard. One time when I felt bad that I had been too tired to spend as much time as I would have liked with them (due to anxiety and one thing or another) I found out where they were staying (took some effort), and that evening, with my boyfriend drove some 80 miles there and back just to take my mother a bunch of flowers, to surprise her, to show her I loved her. She went mad! Going on and on about the security of the hotel letting them down and how my boyfriend shouldn’t have allowed me to do something so ridiculous. I remember standing there with my bunch of flowers and seeing that familiar expression on my mother’s face as she approached me that I had done something wrong, I just wanted the ground to swallow me up and drown in my own tears.
So very sad.
So what am I truly missing?
Springydaffs, thank you too. I think it is important to pause and reflect and connect. Perhaps I am the worthwhile project yet I still feel I need something to focus on (not just me) as I am very isolated though do still suffer from anxiety every day. I am very lucky to have a very supportive and caring boyfriend who I live with. But I will take the time...thank you so much for you support. You would not believe how much this conversation here has uplifted me.
Homebird8, your words always fill me with emotion. You write beautifully...are you a writer? For you have a gift. I am a published writer myself.
Thank you for telling me how you coped. I can empathise with you mourning for the relationship that you wanted. I do too and my mother sounds very similar to yours.
I watch the Canadian series ‘Heartland’ and I love it so much. It helps me with anxiety. It is about how a family love each other, are always there to support one another. It is like looking at sunshine for me. Sometimes it makes me feel sad, but mostly it helps brighten my day, especially as I love horses and animals which it centres upon.
I think we may be very similar too because not being good enough has also featured prominently in my life and I have endured several abusive and controlling relationships. And I too have the same regret as you...it has taken me this long to get where I am now and I so wish I had learned it all before and given myself the permission to value myself to have a better life.
Everything you have said has been of use to me and helped me feel not so alone. I really do hope that writing what you have has helped you also.
Thinking now about our conversation of not being good enough makes me wonder a bit more about what Springydaffs said...taking time for oneself. I am so achievement orientated, always feeling the need to do something, makes things better and right and achieve, achieve, all the time. Perhaps because I felt I was never good enough. And whenever someone says I am, or values me, I tend to think they are making a mistake, they will discover I am a fake or something.
A sad legacy but one I want to overcome.
My father, who I spoke of as a weak man, was a Divisional Commander in the Fire Brigade. He saved lives but didn’t attempt to save ours. Yet I too think he was a victim. He did once try to apologise to me but he didn’t really know what he was apologising for. Sadly though, I think my father would fall apart if she went before him. He can’t cope without her and he always stands by her...in fact, sometimes it is as if he has become her...that they are one person now. He once told me when I was in an abusive relationship that I ought to feel grateful that someone could put up with me and all my ‘problems’. How I have dreamed for a father who thought his little girl was perfect and no one was good enough for her...
So perhaps my hopes for a relationship are just dreams.
The Christmas card I had from them just said ‘from us, to you’. That was it. Nothing more.
I feel grief, such sadness and yet I can still see the light and it has helped so much to be here and share this with you.
HexBramble, thank you. We should thank our parents in some ways, without them, we may not have had the chance to help others as we hope to do today.

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DayLillie · 06/01/2015 13:40

I had a difficult time with my mother. I never really understood what she wanted from me; it changed all the time. I tried hard to please her. It all fell apart when I reached the stage where I had to look after my only family first. I saw a counsellor briefly who asked about my father. "He doesn't really do much" I answered. She said it was typical. He was a professional who worked with children, but never had any clear principles on our upbringing; he left that to her. I read a lot about relationships and could clearly see that I had been brought up in a dysfunctional relationship; she was always finding fault with him, undermining him in front of people, doing things for him that he 'didn't do properly' etc.

She died suddenly and his world collapsed. He was desperately sad. She was his 'belle damme san mercy'. His whole life had been built around giving her what she wanted, a better life, introducing her to new things and oportunities. It was very strange listening to all this when I was sort of relieved by her death. He never saw himself as down trodden - more that he had taken her from a poor background and difficult parents and lack of education and given her a wonderful life of oportunities and experiences.

Although he loves us all dearly, I can't help thinking we were there because she wanted a large family and that he wanted to give her this and this accounts for the lack of input from him.

Six years on, he has learned to cook, taken up new hobbies and is fine.

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Homebird8 · 07/01/2015 02:05

I will answer properly later. Thank you everyone for being a part of this conversation and to wonderwoman for starting it.

I just found this on YouTube which made me shed a tear or two for my DM. It was horrible for me, it must have been desperate for her.

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Homebird8 · 07/01/2015 08:10

I remember standing there with my bunch of flowers and seeing that familiar expression on my mother’s face as she approached me that I had done something wrong, I just wanted the ground to swallow me up and drown in my own tears.

Oh wonderwoman, I can just picture your disappointment. We always, despite all evidence, expect it to be different. Always being wrong is too illogical to make any sense, but that 'look', the one we know so well, the one which stills us, and crushes us, that 'look' feels like proof.

I think the NC might turn out to be a surprising silver lining to the anvil cloud that usually delivers bolts of lightening. Death and true NC isn't that much different really. They both give us an opportunity to quietly contemplate what was, and what never could be. Don't expect it to be a speedy process though. As I said up thread, it has taken me five years to get to the point where even letting this small glimpse of what is inside can be contemplated. And yes, it is helping.

HexBramble I never thought of it as a light in my soul. I can but hope it's a FOG light. Each step is easier if you put it in the right direction.

SpringyDaffs can I echo what wonderwoman said. Your words may have been as direct response to her difficult situation but they spoke to me too. I haven't the courage yet to get as far as a counsellor but one day, one day. Thank you.

That thing you said about permission wonderwoman has got me thinking. I seek permission from those around me to do even simple things and feel a sense of dread at even making a small purchase, or sending a work email without a colleague's 'sanity check'. I'm not a writer, I'm an engineer. A well qualified professional, who worries about how she will come across, whether a word or two in the wrong place will mess everything up. The odd thing is that I'm actually quite confident in groups. DH tells me he loves to watch me at parties full of people I don't know, and there's an office joke about how much work I win at after-work development courses when the beers are flowing at the end. And yet, of course, I am always not quite good enough.

My heart fell at what you shared abut your father. It sounds to me as if you believe in your mother's behaviour but there is still a desperate hope that your father is just weak. You do deserve the best and anyone who would try to make you grateful for less than a great relationship is not showing that. If he started out not in the same league as your mother, I am seriously suspecting that he chose to join her and now cannot see that there was another path. How painful to have to let go of the dream of a better relationship with him too. Their decision though, this NC. If they knew how much it would eventually bring you I doubt they would have done it.

DayLillie, thank you for your note of hope. Your DF has built a new life for himself and we can all do that whatever the fault, and the undermining, and the never being able to do anything properly. There is hope and healing and belief. Let's keep taking those steps, lit by Hex's light.

Flowers for us all.

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wonderwoman21 · 08/01/2015 09:07

Thank you again Homebird8 for your thoughts.
I also can see NC as being a slow but necessary process...a preparation time for when they go. I have a problem in that my 18 year old daughter wants to write to my parents but for all the reasons already discussed, I don't want this at all. I just want NC now, to allow to heal, reflect, after all the pain. Selfish though it may seem, I am advising her NC with them too. They have never shown interest in her, run her down too, hardly seen her and she certainly doesn't like my mother. And if she has contact with them, it means I will always know...and I don't want to now. It is time for the healing to begin. It is because of my upbringing that I wasn't even able to bring up my own daughter; we were separated because of my emetophobia and because I had a breakdown. I didn't have any more children...something that has always made me feel very sad. There has been too much loss.
I hope, Homebird8, you may see a counsellor one day, if you feel you need to. Do you have a good supportive network? Friends?
There is so much I need to work on...isolation being the main one I think, and the sadness and anger...but I too believe the light is there and can lead our way.

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Homebird8 · 11/01/2015 08:59

Hello wonderwoman sorry to go quiet on you. RL took over for a while there.

It sounds like the brave and loving move to advise your DD not to contact your parents. There is a huge risk that she will become a pawn in their game, a way to manipulate you, a way to hurt you further, and of course that she will be hurt herself and her relationship with you damaged. She is young and probably thinks that now she is an adult her word will go some way to punishing or healing her grandparents. Were that the world were that easy. How is your relationship with your DD now? It sounds as though the early years were very difficult.

I probably would benefit from the right sort of counselling, I'm just not sure what that is. At least the fact that there are no more incidents in the catalogue of 'events' with DM means that I can take it at my own pace. I wish I could honestly say that I was not challenged by any other members of my family but it not the case. I can't say more about that here. Despite the anonymity of MN I am not ready to risk it.

I do have good support of a loving DH who understands the issues from his own experience, two gorgeous and loving DCs, and some close friends, one of whom in particular is an excellent listener, and the others who accept my idiosyncrasies with love and understanding.

What about you. Are there friends who are there for you too? You mention isolation. Sadness and anger don't help to solve that one but you don't need to pretend to be someone you're not to find people who will listen. At least on MN you can be guaranteed a fair ear. I may not be able to post every day but I'll keep in touch through your thread if that helps. Having someone who gets it is so helpful to me too.

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wonderwoman21 · 12/01/2015 15:28

Back again :-)
We spoke about counselling but I have drawn a blank, sadly.
I have attempted to contact several and they either haven't responded at all or they say they don't have the time, or their response was so impersonal that I felt like a statistic to be added to their list! I am surprised because I have had some training myself in counselling and was under the impression that it wasn't a wise career choice due to lack of money mostly. However, the people I have contacted don't seem to want to know! Back to drawing board on that one, I think.
I wish I could say that I have close friends like you do Homebird8 but I don't. Isolation has been the cause mostly and we tend to live in a somewhat closed society now, sometimes lacking in community spirit. Not to say I won't keep trying though. It isn't easy though.
The Thrive programme was also recommended on here but so far it has given me a headache! I had high hopes and I do agree with changing life limited thoughts but Rob Kelly seems to think that if you change the way you think, you can change anything and I beg to differ. Life isn't quite so black and white. He himself charges £145 for a 50 minute session with him (and I have yet to find out what the therapists charge who have been trained in 'Thrive') so I do wonder at his motives...
It is so good to talk here though Homebird8. Thank you :-)

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