How do you help a person who has hurt you?

[PTFswife]

I previously said I would never post on the relationships board again because I cannot stand the LTB chant that comes out when I try to explain why I am choosing to remain with my husband after he had an affair. What I am wanting is advice from people who have gone through their partner having an affair and are now trying to make their marriage work. If you are someone who has gone through the hurt of a partner cheating and cannot understand why someone would stay, please leave now. Sorry for being blunt but I truly do want advice from mumsnetters but cannot deal with the usual battering I seem to get when I say I am trying to work on my marriage.

So if you are still here and aren't going to tell me to LTB, here's my problem. My husband had an affair. It is two days from being one year since d-day. The summer has been hard. There have been numerous trigger points in relation to the affair. In addition, his mother has died. And we've both had a huge amount to deal with. All our good work at the start has taken a knock due to life circumstances. We are still soldiering on.

But there are times when my anger flares up. Sometimes it is due to him reverting to behaviours shown when he had the affair e.g. withdrawing, lack of communication. Recently I had a trigger and I got angry with him. He in turn became very very sad. Hangdog is the only word I can use to describe him.

We have since talked but I have realised something. He is suffering from depression. He hates himself so much for what he has done by having an affair, coupled with almost losing his job and then watching his mother waste away through a horrid disease and then dying. He has had a LOT of shit happen. Now it's easy to say: well plenty of that is of his own making. And I agree.

But here's my dilemma. I need to express how I feel when I have triggers or get angry. I need to discuss his affair and what it has done. But I know that everytime I do it (and I try not to do it often) it makes him feel worse and worse. I fear that he could reach a point where he is so depressed that he can no longer function. He is the main breadwinner.

I feel torn between wanting to be a good wife and help him through this (not to mention the selfish reason of knowing that if he gets completely depressed he could just stop functioning) and wanting to be able to talk about what he has done and how it makes me feel when trigger situations arise.

I wondered if anyone else has been in this situation? How do you help the person who hurt you when the reason they hurt is because of what they have done to you?

[ArtemisiaGentileschisThumb]

My DH has never had an affair (that I know of!) but I can totally relate to the part about needs clashing; we both suffer from depression and periods of high stress and low moods. If we are suffering separately it is hard but we get through and support each other, if we are struggling at the same time it is so difficult for us both to get our needs met and find a balance. I'm not sure I have much wisdom for you but here is what I have learned (it will not all apply the you but something might help):

1. I can't take too much responsibility for his feelings, I can listen and support but he has to do the work to get healthy. If I focus too much on him I start to get resentful and low too.
   
   
2. that works both ways, I can talk to him but cannot expect him to rescue me. So a lot of my talking is done outside the relationship, to a counsellor or to a friend if I'm feeling very brave, this takes the pressure off of my expectations of him but it means I get support too.
   
   
3. we ask each other what the other person needs, if we don't know that's ok but if I need a hug or reassurance or space or whatever I have learned to stop expecting him to just know. It's hard sometimes to ask for what I need but it actually makes a difference.
   
   
4. I have to be willing to give him space/a cuddle/reassurance or whatever. That's hard too but it gets easier with practice.
   
   
5. what works for me might not work for him, I can't control his actions or feelings and I can't make him better through bullying,cajoling, worrying or sheer force of will. Attempts lead to disappointment and resentment.
   
   In summary when things are tough and I am in a place of common sense I try to support him but not give too much of myself to it, when you're living with so one who is depressed there is a danger that they will take everything you can give but it still won't be enough, you have to look after yourself too or you will lose yourself. Depression is not a free pass; I still let my DH know if he is crossing the line, I stand up for myself and we still have arguments.
   
   I don't know if there is anything tangible or useful there, it makes sense in my had but may look like guff on screen.
   I Los feel that you need to let the affair go for your sake as much as his mental health, how you do that is up to you. Have you thought about whether your are depressed too? I know you have tried counselling but I would consider going back because you can express all those pent up feelings you have in a place where you don't have to look after the other person.

[ArtemisiaGentileschisThumb]

Bloody hell sorry I went on a bit there

[PTFswife]

Mary - I would say that initially it felt like he was fighting for our marriage. Recently with everything that has been going on it, it's like he has no more fight in him. I can't tell if that is because he doesn't want to fight for us or if he is just so down and browbeaten by all that has gone on in the last year.

He would be horrified if he read this - because I think he thinks that he is fighting for our marriage.

[PTFswife]

Artemisia - that was massively helpful, thank you.

Re me being depressed - I find it really hard to figure out what depression feels like. about five years ago I went to see a counsellor and she made me do a test, which showed that I had mild depression. I don't have the symptoms that I read about with people who have serious depression, but I guess in general I find it harder to laugh and when I wake up in the morning, I typically have a 'sigh - another day' type feeling rather than a sense of happiness. A general feeling of gloominess. My GP asked me if I wanted to go on anti-depressants after the affair as I was in an almighty emotional mess, but I didn't want to.

I can improve my mood through exercise, having a sense of purpose and spending time with close friends.

[ArtemisiaGentileschisThumb]

I would focus on the things you need to do to lift your mood then, it sounds like you have some good ideas and know what you need. It could be that by focusing on yourself it will relieve some of the pressure from both of you but at the very least help you feel better.

[Pastperfect]

He is being so, so unfair to you.

You are entitled to be angry and hurt, with all the frustrations and outbursts that brings.

You are not responsible for his feelings. He must own them and recognise that - medical diagnosis aside - they are largely if his own making. He is putting an insufferably unfair burden upon you by laying the responsibility for his well being and the happiness of your marriage at your door. What role does he see for himself? Is he just going to sit back whilst you grind yourself down trying to turn your marriage into something that it is simply not ready to be.

I do t think I have read your pp and I know you want positive advice but I just feel sad reading your post. Is this really want you want?

[gildedcage]

I just wanted to reiterate what the pp said about looking after you.

Ultimately I think you need some counselling for you. If you chose to forgive, and it is a choice not an emotion, then you need to move on and stop battering him with your anger. Presumably after a year you have been very angry already. I think having a counsellor would help you work through your feelings.

Please start thinking about you. You are saying here what's he thinking, how does he feel? He has to take responsible for his own actions and feelings. If he is depressed then he needs to deal with this not you.

Believe me I have been in a very similar circumstance and my husband had a breakdown caused by his own guilt. Ultimately he has to forgive himself. You can only work on you. Once you start doing this you may find that while you can forgive him you choose not to stay with him. I am not saying LTB but as someone else said I think he's gearing himself up to leaving you and that the depression card will be used full power. PLEASE ask yourself "what about me?" think long and hard.

[gildedcage]

sorry think that crossed with the what past perfect said.

[ImperialBlether]

When you say he is sad, do you mean he is sorry for himself?

Just a word about you for a moment; it's really not normal to wake up every day feeling gloomy. I would find that depressing to be like that and frankly I'd find it depressing to live with. Why are you both so determined not to take any medication? Are you the same with medication for physical illnesses?

[foxinthebox]

PTF we have messaged before (serial NC) and i'm sad to see that you are both dealing with so much external difficulty too. Has your DH seen a dr? I did and after 7 years of being used to being low i was diagnosed with chronic depression. AD's helped. Alot. Or at least get him to a counsellor. That is being a good wife, well even friend.

Now, being the survivor of an affair, you don't have to do any more than those things. It may be that he is never strong enough to hear what you need to say to him and so you will either learn to live with that or not. However, you have to prioritise what is important to you right now. It sounds like you need some security, so get him match fit and in your usual routine first as that sounds more important in the first instance.

Once he is back on track (a death of a parent can take YEARS though), you can deal with your relationship.

[unrealhousewife]

I think he is depressed and you have become secondary to his illness. If he is high functioning but has contemplated suicide he will be trying to push away those that love him. You could do with detaching as a partner but instead take on more of a carer role. Treat him as someone who is ill, not someone who doesn't care. I don't think this is about you at all. Analysing your relationship will not help him or you really.

Have a look at hyperbole and a half's videos on depression.

He may be suffering from PTSD, many military men do. They are also pressured into thinking that mental illness is a weakness, so they hide it and it just builds up.

[unrealhousewife]

And it has very little to do with parental death unless he was particularly strongly attached as an adult.

[FrootLoopy]

To survive post affair, both individuals have to be quite strong, and be willing to work through it - regardless of how much it hurts - and it WILL hurt.

You are hurting, because he had the affair. It was a reneging of promises and has destroyed your trust.

He is hurting, because he has had the affair, and has to live with the reality that he deliberately chose to do an act which would so completely and utterly hurt a person he loves so much.

Being ex-military, I think is quite key here. He would have had such a sense of self honour etc that he now doesn't even know who he is. He has damaged his self identity quite fundamentally.

If the relationship prior to the affair was bad, then it's feels like an easy solution to just work on the relationship because it was the relationship that was at fault. But that's just not true.

Regardless of how bad the relationship was, he made a CHOICE to have the affair.

You both now know the worst in him. And you both have to someone learn to live with knowing the worse about him. And you both, somehow, have to believe that although he is capable of it, that you both believe that in the future he would CHOOSE not to act in that way.

To live with himself though, he either has to:

1. Hide it away, so he doesn't have to think about it - not working, the thoughts are preventing him sleeping, seeing you hurt, and hearing your pain won't let him hide it away;
   
   
2. he has to pretend that actually, it wasn't so bad, it wasn't really him, it was you, the situation etc - but that won't work because he really does love you and knows its not your fault.
   
   
3. He deals with it - that is best done with therapy - and works through all of the guilt and learns to live with the new flawed view of himself.
   
   The problem with No 1 and No 2 is that the easiest way of achieving those is by leaving the relationship.
   
   So unless he really DEALS with it, no matter what YOU want, your relationship won't have a strong chance of surviving.

[unrealhousewife]

People who are severely depressed will find ways to push away the people that love them, by having affairs, being out of character nasty, withdrawing. Your love might be the one thing keeping alive. Sorry to pile on the pressure but I have seen this first hand and it can be truly tragic.

In your case, the added pressure that being in the military, stiff upper lip etc will have displaced his mental health needs, he will have pushed all that below the surface for years probably.

The affair was probably little more than a distraction from what was really going on in his head.

A diagnosis of depression doesn't mean you have to stay with him though, but you ought to do everything you can to get off his military high horse and look at his own mental health before you leave.

[PTFswife]

Thank you for all your comments - particularly yours frootyloopy - very wise words.

I think that both he and I need to get ourselves assessed for depression. He would say that I am depressed and have been for years. I think the thought of him being depressed would seem foreign to him but I think he now perhaps realises it.

[FrootLoopy]

Good luck PTF.

It's a hard road that you've chosen, but I can see why you have.

[whostolethesocks]

My ex husband had an affair and also had depression. I tried to help post affair but felt like you did. We never really spoke about the affair and he showed no remorse and wasn't willing to try counselling. I tried to forgive and continue with the marriage but it was not to be. His affair continued and we are now divorced. Living with someone with depression can be extremely hard. Living with someone who has cheated on you and has depression is even harder. I wish you luck.

[SaffyStraw]

Oh my you have voiced so many of my issues with my DH. I posted on MN not long after I discovered my DH's affair and all the advice was much the same ... get out, move on, he's selfish - I did take some of the advice but not all of it, quite frankly I felt I was completely in the wrong for trying to save my marriage.

My DH claimed to be depressed but when I looked it up and spoke to Counsellor they all agreed if depressed no sex - my DH has been seeing Counsellor and she has suggested mid-life crisis which he seems to accept. I was very cynical and read up on it and found that it is an 'actual' thing with potentially huge repercussions to those suffering and those around them.

My issue is my DH has now stopped talking to me, if I say anything about 'crisis' or 'affair' he clams up and generally goes to bed. He does not understand I am not done with it. It took me to a low where I have never been before (and obviously never want to go again), my self-everything was lost. I have realised I am getting stronger every day, my worry is I am starting to disrespect him for his lack of ability to talk. I would be gutted if we finish as initially we both tried so hard to get over it.

I think my issue is the DH had a detour both mid-life crisis and the affair and where he just wants answers to the crisis I need answers to the affair and why he could not talk/love me. I have now suggested joint counselling as I see no way forward unless we talk. I guess what I am saying is you need to look after yourself firstly and grow strong, every day take at least one positive step - hopefully your positivity will enable your DH to move forward to a better place.

I don't know where I will end up but have resolved that should we split I am strong enough to carry on and provide for my 3 DC without turning into a jibbering, bitter woman. This little bit of positivity has given me back some of my self-esteem, self-confidence and even with the OW still trying to contact my DH I can look at this as the act of a pathetic woman who needs to move on.

Be strong, be positive and occasionally smile ... you are not in the wrong and by helping him you will hopefully see him change back to his 'previous' self. I wish you all the luck in the world - well i might take some of that luck as I need it too (don't know where to get flower symbol from but if I did would put one here!)

[PTFswife]

Thanks for sharing your story saffystraw. I'm sorry your dh isn't communicating. It makes it really hard to move on when they do that.

I had a long chat with my husband two days ago. It was very needed. I am actually less sure now that he is depressed. I think perhaps - when he was really down the week before - it was a symptom of it being the straw that broke the camel's back after a tough few months. Or being cynical, perhaps he was just try to play the sympathy card to avoid having the tough conversations. Either way I flagged all my concerns with him and he acknowledged them and was willing to talk them through.

I am still all over the place. Yesterday was the one year anniversary of d-day. It felt so weird thinking back to a year ago when he told me about the affair and this morning, I woke up and remembered what I was feeling a year ago after he has spent the night in the spare room and I'd cried my way through the night. A year on we woke up in bed together, he made me coffee, we could have a laugh and plan out our weekend. To an outsider it would look like a good, normal, happy marriage.

But I think a lot of issues lie just below the surface, which we still need to resolve. Some are due to the affair, some are issues we had in our marriage pre-affair. He does communicate with me now, although has lapses when he doesn't as life gets in the way. Because he talks more now, he also tells me what he didn't like about our marriage before the affair. It wasn't a great marriage and he is entitled to raise his concerns if we are too improve things and move forward. But there are times when I want to shout and say: I don't care if you don't like that I do x or y. At least I didn't have an affair!

I am rambling, mainly because I want to mark this one year turning point but can't with anyone in real life. I have spoken to my dh about it and he is being supportive and sorry. I think he puts a male, practical head on and thinks there is little to be gained from dwelling on the past. We need to look forward and build. And I agree, but it's not as easy for me. I sort of want to have a mini 'woohoo, we survived the first year post affair' type party because it is a milestone worth celebrating. We could have been waking up in different beds this morning. But at the same time, who wants to celebrate an affair?

So I am just going to put it here for lack of a better place: well done us for surviving year one. We have come such a long way. I know that we still have a very long way to go. But I am hoping that each conversation we have, each dawning realisation that we are both hurting, each positive step we take to fix the hurt, each normal happy day we have, each nightmare fall apart day we have, is just another step on this journey. Many journeys are uncomfortable, scary, upsetting and hard, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't make them. You never know what amazing thing you might find along the way.

That's my mantra as I enter year 2.

[FrootLoopy]

You are right to celebrate, because its not the affair you are celebrating, but your survival.

[SaffyStraw]

PTFswife I wish you the very, very best. Best foot forward and boy won't we be strong when we get through the shit-bit. As my nine year old would say BIG UP TO YOU and yes keep talking. I just hope I can get mine to talk soon! You can be my inspiration as I more into the fourth month post-affair.

[PTFswife]

Thanks Frootloopy and Saffystraw - and Saffy all the best to you too. x

[hamptoncourt]

One of my best friends had an affair. Her DH decided to stay with her and work through it.

She said she wanted to give the marriage another shot but really she was just treading water. She became increasingly depressed and unhappy. She missed her OM desperately and realised she had made a big mistake in trying to salvage her dead marriage.

Her DH became more and more unhappy as a result and became a grey shell of a man. It was actually pitiful to watch. He could see her slipping away from him. He was desperate to have counselling but she refused.

Apologies if I have missed it but are you in counselling?

What you have described really reminded me of their situation OP, both of you unhappy. Obviously this is your absolute choice to remain but it all so sounds so sad for both of you. I hope you find some peace going forwards.

[northernpixie]

I think we are the same shitty club. My DW had a 3 year affair which she claims ended 2 years ago, to me it feels like it really ended 6 months ago when they finally went NC.

My DW is happy that we survived and appears to have put the whole thing behind her but I still have problems coping sometime. My GP told me a while back that it takes 5 years to fully recover (it turns out that was from experience). As others have suggested I think it is a good idea to help yourself as a way of helping your husband. With me its not just the triggers arising from various "anniversaries", TV and radio dramas don’t help. Another big problem is that difficulties elsewhere make me start to fret about the affair, it is almost as if the brain prefers to worry about the affair rather than the current unrelated problem. It helped me when I recognised this and I have become better at facing the real issues rather than worrying about the past. When I know I am getting in a state then I will tell my DW and we talk about it, both the current problem, and the old problem that the mind has dredged up and that often defuses it.

A more practical point, it helps me to have a charged ipod with earphones near the bed, if I wake up in the night I listen to that and go back to sleep quickly, if I don’t use it unhappy thoughts keep me awake.

Good luck in your journey, I hope it ends well.

[heyday]

What a wise post northern pixie. Sounds like you have found really useful ways of coping and your obviously trying hard to move on. Good luck.