Help me decide whether I should stay or go?

[allaboutsteven]

I'm a male but wanted a bit of female advice. I am going to be honest here so I hope no one thinks I'm an arsehole after posting. Sorry if it's long.

I got married young (21) was married for 15 years and for the first 10 is was great. My only negatives were that she was quite hard to communicate with and she didn't enjoy sex very much. I'm ashamed to say that although I loved her the lack of sex did make me feel rejected, lonely and unsatisfied and I had a couple of one night stands during the marriage (she never found out). 10 years into the marriage we had a son and after that the relationship fell apart.

She withdrew from me and started spending a lot of time working diferrent hours to me so we got no time together, then she started to form a close relationship with a friend of mine where they would stay up late talking and it looked bit suspicious.

The rare sex then dwindled to nothing (we had no sex at all the last few years) and all affection or closeness went out the window too. If I asked her what was wrong she always said "nothing" or that she was just tired. We tried counselling but after two sessions she said it was pointless. I tried everything I could think of to make her happy but nothing worked and she wouldn't tell me what it was that I needed to change to get her to love me again. People were telling me she was having an affair with my friend and I suspect it was true as he was always sniffing around her but I was scared to ask.

Life was miserable over a few years and I developed mild depression. I knew deep down the marriage was over but we had a son and I didn't want to leave him. Also I was very close with my wife's family and we lived in a very small community where it would be hard to be divorced. I felt like losing her meant losing my entire life and didn't want to accept it was over and have to start a whole new life alone.

Then I met a woman (call her Karen) unexpectedly and fell in love. After meeting her my depression went away in weeks and I felt happy again for the first time in years. She was beautiful, lovely, exciting, sexy, interesting, kind, funny and to be honest I could not see what she ever saw in me. She was not willing to be in a relationship with me if I was still married, so I plucked up the courage finally to talk to my wife about divorce and she seemed relived I brought it up and we agreed to divorce without her ever explaining why she stopped loving me.

We stayed living together for a few months but she frequently slept away from the house so during that time I was seeing Karen and falling for her deeper and deeper.

I moved out of the family home 4 months later to a town an hour away where I didn't know anyone. Karen was having problems with her job so I suggested she look for one near me and move in with me (2 hours from where she lived). She was concerned it was all too quick and that I needed time to be able and grieve the end of my marriage but I was insistent she move in right away, I told her my marriage had been dead for years. She agreed and we moved in.

I know it sounds like a recipe for disaster, which maybe it was but at the time I was completely infatuated and in love with her and being with her stopped me feeling sad or depressed..

Shortly after that the soon to be ex wife moved the friend I suspected she had been sleeping with into my old family home, confirming my suspicions and he took my place in my old family.

I know it sounds like a rebound but I really did love Karen equally to the love I had for my ex wife and even with hindsight I do know that. At first it was infatuation because she was so sexy and bright and interesting and gave me so much love and affection but over time it grew into a really deep love because she was a wonderful person that was compatible with me in every way. More so than my ex wife ever was.

She made me happy, I felt at home with her, she was easy to talk to, I could tell her anything (things I could never tell the ex) and communicated with her much more easily than I did with my ex, she actually talked to me, our sex life was incredible, I found her so attractive, she was loyal and sweet and devoted to me. She was great with my son and my friends and family all said we were far better suited and how great it was great to see me happy again.

Two years years after moving in together I loved her so deeply and knew her so well that I was sure I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her, so I proposed. At that time there was no question I loved her with all my heart.

Six months later, I had a shock bereavement and my depression came back really severely to the point of being suicidal with it. I started feeling like my life was no good, hopeless, like nothing would ever be good again and I got a lot of anger and irritation and directed all of it at poor Karen. She was very understanding but I found once the depression came I didn't feel the same way about her any more and after making her life hell I went to stay at a friends house to get some space.

She was in bits but stood by me and supported me even though I was a real arsehole to her. I just couldn't cope with being in a relationship with her or anyone and thought I didn't love her any more.

With the depression a lot of unresolved emotions about my marriage surfaced and I got (and still feel) incredibly angry at my ex wife for taking away my whole life without giving me a chance to fix it. I hate dropping my son off to my old house where she now lives with my friend. I never confronted either of them and feel so angry but don't want to do anything to upset the amicable childcare arrangements we have. I also really miss my ex wife's family and being included as part of their life and feel like I lost everything due to this man taking it from me. At family occasions I hate my wife not being there with me as a family and she is cold and uncaring towards me and has been for years. Even when she knew I was ill.

I have been in treatment for the depression for a few months now and I feel a lot better and as my emotions and perspective start to return to normal I realise I do still love Karen but that I also do still love my ex wife and my feelings are all over the place.

I feel like I have not let go of my ex wife properly and have a lot of emotions to work through, but I am confused over whether or not this is because I still love her or if it's just the fact that I had a shared history / family / life with her and things were never resolved.

I know I need to work through all this, but at the same time Karen is the most wonderful woman, and I am scared if I lose her I will regret it forever. I suspect on a cognitive level that I do still love her. I know I definitely loved her like crazy until I got depressed but at the same time I have put her through so much and don't want to hurt her.

Can anyone tell me what I should do?

[Fairenuff]

You medication will take time to work so you should see your gp as soon as possible. Keep posting here if it helps.

[KoalaKoo]

You need to go back to ypur gp immediately and try a different anti depressant. Can you not see that you are feeling far worse lately and have turned to drink. These could well be related to coming off medication.

[allaboutsteven]

I was on anti depressant but just came off. To be honest they helped me feel a bit better but also made me feel really numb and disconnected so I wanted to come off as fast as possible. I'm going to try again I think, maybe not ready.

[Pinkrose1]

Writing down you thoughts and feeling here are helping you believe me. You are getting so much off your chest that you have kept inside since the divorce.

You are able to talk about your ex wife here which is something Karen may not want to hear. A man (or woman) beating their chest about their ex love is a huge turn off.

You can't keep looking to Karen to 'make everything right in your world'. She's a woman, not Santa Claus. You've got to come to terms with the loss of your old life and stop looking back. If you carry on this way you will lose the one person who will make your future worthwhile.

Relate offer very reasonable counselling and they see people on their own. No ridiculous long waits like NHS counselling. I assume you are on anti depressants? If not you should be at this point in your depressive illness.

[allaboutsteven]

You're right, I don't love my ex wife any more, it's just attachment to my old life which I do miss a lot. Especially at Christmas. Her parents were very close to me and it drives me insane to think of my mate at the table in my place. I hate dropping my son off there. It's really hard to adjust to but our marriage was never that great. No communication and she didn't care about my needs or ever want to work anything out. She didn't make me feel loved or important like Karen did and to be honest she knows I have been depressed and hasn't cared enough to enquire if I am okay.

I do love Karen. I loved her more than I'd ever loved anyone before I got depressed. Every time she walked into a room I felt better about the world. She might have been a plaster, but she wasn't a rebound. I am certain of that much.

I just can't feel it right now and feel so low and despondent.

I am getting more depressed the last couple of days. I think I do need more help. I found it hard to get up today and couldn't go to work or do the washing up. I found myself drinking and I'd stopped drinking a while back to help with the depression.

I miss Karen a lot but at the same time want to be alone so I don't have to talk to anyone or see her big eyes looking so confused and rejected when I don't want sex the way I used to or when I say the wrong thing.

I talked to her tonight and she's assuring me I can have as long as I need to process all this and she will have my back no matter what. She's not saying she's waiting for me but she is saying she is there for me. I think we're going to agree to see each other once a week but I didn't feel well enough to commit to that just now on the phone.

I do feel most closest to joy when she is around. It's just that interactions and time with her bring me up then there is a big crash that follows. I will write that letter. It's a good idea. I just feel too tired inside right now ad thinking about all these emotions that are coming up is really taking a toll.

[rainbowinmyroom]

Can your counsellor agree a payment plan? You would probably greatly benefit from more counselling. It can give you tools to cope and be self-reliant during tougher times in life.

[tia2187]

It wasn't a very me thing to do either I am rather stubborn :) but i'm glad I did it as it meant I could vent and not upset anyone and actually worked (to my surprise).

[Fairenuff]

I think you would benefit from more counselling. It's important.

[allaboutsteven]

I had some counselling but it was expensive. It did help me to realise all the causes of my depression and is helping me to feel better but I am still all over the place a bit.

The letter is a good idea - but not a very "male" thing to do. I struggle a lot with this sort of thing

[Fairenuff]

It is the same because instead of dealing with the problems at the time, you both checked out. Her emotionally at first, you physically, both of you intellectually.

Really this relationship ended a long, long time ago but neither of you was brave enough to deal with that at the time. Whilst it is understandably easier to carry on from day to day pretending things will get better all by themselves, it's not the most healthy way to resolve problems.

However, that was then and you can't go back in time so what you have to do now is find out where you want to go from here.

Anger is just a feeling, like any other. It's natural, we all experience it. Try to remember that we are never in a constant state of one emotion. Feelings come and feelings go. You won't feel like this forever.

Are you having counselling at the moment?

[tia2187]

I had depression a number years ago and saw a counselor when talking to him a lot of old and what I thought dealt with issues came up about a relationship breakdown a few years prior, the relationship ended when he left me on the pretense he didn't want to be in a relationship I then found out a year later he had been having an affair and left me for her, this made it very difficult to deal with as too much time passed for me to vent or be angry at him. I felt sooo much better after this and thought it was all dealt with again... Until about 2 years ago not long after I met my now partner (after many failed relationships on my part) I started thinking about him again and getting angry that I could not fully grieve the relationship ending to the point it was really starting to effect my new relationship. I spoke to a friend who is a physiologist who suggest I write a letter to said ex with everything I ever wanted to say in it and to explain the affect he was having on me now being able to forge a new relationship, as I didn't want this one going the way previous ones had.
It sounded to simple but I gave it a try and things just flowed out things I had never consciously ever thought about.
You don't ever show anyone the letter and never read it again just write it and put it away, burn it, bin it...
This had an amazing effect and I can honestly say I have been able to fully move on.
If I was you I would give it a go after all whats to loose?!

[rainbowinmyroom]

Infidelity is infidelity. You are trying to justify it. Why? It's water under the bridge. You cheated, she cheated, now you are divorced. You then rebounded and suffered depression and that relationship has foundered.

In both these relationships you admittedly behave very poorly, cheating in one and you say you were an arsehole to Karen. And there is always an excuse - you needed sex and affection, you were depressed.

It sounds like you need to take a break from relationships whilst you work very hard on stable mental health long-term and then think about relationships later.

It sounds like you are basing your emotional well-being on couple relationships and this is very unhealthy. Also working on yourself would go a long way towards ensuring next time you have life problems, you are better able to cope with them in a mature way, not cheating or being a nob to your partner.

I think you are being unfair and selfish towards Karen for your own benefit.

[allaboutsteven]

I know I did wrong, and I only mentioned that for the reason of putting across that the marriage was not "perfect".

She didn't want sex. I don;t really mean rarely, I mean never, and I loved her so I lived with it but she wouldn't discuss it or explain to me and in a lot of ways I felt unable to talk to her. I needed sex sometimes, I needed affection and I admittedly sought it elsewhere a couple of time but only for one night with no relationship.

She had an affair over a period of years under my nose with a person she later moved into my house. I am not sure it is the same. My emotions remained attached to her.

Karen is diferrent. Like a breath of fresh air.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I know that two wrongs don't make a right but didn't you say you did a bit of screwing around during the marriage? It's always tempting to blame the OM or the other party but sometimes, especially when people get together so young, the real problem is that they change, grow apart, but keep flogging the dead horse rather than call it a day. Your heart wasn't really in it and neither was hers. So this OM didn't 'snake in' and steal anyone any more than your ONS women stole you. You were OK-ish when you had Karen to mop your brow but, now that you've dismissed her, you're annoyed because OM seems to have emerged on top.

It's not a competition. Ideas of winning and losing don't help in the long run. Comparisons will leave you depressed

[allaboutsteven]

I feel angry and both of them but most of it at him. I feel like he snaked his way into my life by pretending to be my friend and he took away my family from me, my house, my daily life with my son and my wife.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Thanks fairenuff... (note to self: read thread properly)

[Quitelikely]

I would say that you don't love your wife as such but that you really wanted her to love you and give your marriage more of a chance. I think you feel robbed because she denied you that opportunity. Also she had an affair and that has really hurt you. Unfortunately the betrayal can take years to get over.

I think that instead of confronting your emotions at the time of the split you had Karen and she was a sort of sticking plaster. You will be right when you say she may not feel the way she once did about you, this is because what you did to her changed the dynamics of your relationship, so yes she will view you differently.

Unfortunately depression does rob people of the ability to feel love. The meds do numb folk and I honestly believe that the depression is what is causing your confusion over whether you love her or not.

The right thing to do is not to string her along while your depressed.

[Fairenuff]

I think he means Karen is talking about moving away?

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

As you are divorced it already is 'over for good', regardless of where she lives. Are you saying you regret getting divorced?

[Fairenuff]

Btw do you feel more angry at your friend than your wife?

[Fairenuff]

You really need to be ready to enter into a new relationship, having had time to come to terms with the loss of the old one and this didn't happen with you and Karen, unfortunately.

I think you may have repressed all your negatives emotions to start with, which is why you were happy with Karen. But feelings have to surface and that is what is happening now. You really need to just focus on yourself and deal with these emotions and that's hard to do when you're in a relationship.

What you really need are supportive friends and family, people who will involve you in their lives so that you are busy and interacting but not under pressure to give back any more than you can right now.

Are you having counselling?

[allaboutsteven]

Yes I'm actually divorced now. I didn't deal with any of it really at the time because I never really felt angry for my mate running off with my wife and it's all catching up with me now.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Are you actually divorced now? I think you can't underestimate the impact of marriage break-up, even when it's been on the cards for some time. It's stressful, emotional and disruptive. You've been part of each other's lives for 15+ years and that leaves a lot of loose ends when it finishes. You can't put a timescale on dealing with it either. That's something that happens gradually over time and everyone has different ways of approaching it. Personally I favour the 'stay busy' philosophy.... take stock, make the most of the better days and look after yourself on the bad days. Give yourself as little time to dwell on miserable thoughts as possible. I'd also recommend 'look forward' because one thing that disappears when you exit a bad relationship is the future. So you have to create a different future, make some short and long term plans, start filling the diary

Romantically speaking, I wouldn't drag anyone else into the picture until you are feeling a lot more settled and confident. Partners will always want to be supportive but they are not there to be dumped on - it's unfair on them and can create a slightly unreal 'rescuing' atmosphere. Find your feet first, finalise the separation, get the depression stabilised.... then you'll make better decisions.

[allaboutsteven]

It definitely was a headfuck. She didn't really explain it all to me so letting go had been hard.

[mrsbrownsgirls]

I think you should hang on tightly to Karen, assuming she wants to hang on to you!
It is very normal to grieve a bad/sad marriage months and even years down the line.

A marriage ends because people can't RESOLVE things. Then later as you look back you want to resolve the ending , but you can't! It's a real head fuck and I have been there . I have grieved an utterly crap marriage and it was a very confusing and distressing place to be.

You sound lovely and so does Karen . I wish you luck and love.

Oh, and bereavement does terrible things to your mind