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Relationships

On behalf of friend - DH in love with another woman but not having an affair

54 replies

SignYourName · 19/08/2014 15:15

I’m writing this on behalf of my friend with her knowledge and permission who for her own reasons doesn’t want to join MN but is desperate for some outside perspective as she doesn’t know what to think. The level of detail has been approved by her.

She has been with her DH for 10 years and they have one DC. Before he met her, he had a comparatively short but apparently very intense relationship with a woman he met when they started working together, which ended due to circumstances outside their control (I don’t know the details) but which I understand was a “reluctant” parting rather than the relationship fizzling out or one treating the other badly. I knew my friend back then and can remember when she met him and he certainly was quite angry – not violent or even angry at my friend in particular, more at the world in general. TBH I didn’t like him very much when they first got together; she was one of a succession of rebound relationships from what I could see and I didn’t think he appreciated her enough for what she was.

My friend got pregnant accidentally not long after they started seeing each other. Their relationship was quite rocky for a while and there were spells when it looked as though she would be a single parent. She had a very traumatic and painful birth and extremely bad PND, and to be fair he absolutely grew up and stepped up. Once the baby was here he seemed to fall in love with being a dad and he was extremely supportive of and caring towards my friend and it seemed to strengthen their relationship quite significantly. They ended up getting married about a year later.

Shortly after they married, his ex (who was still working for the same employer albeit at a different site) made contact as she was in a position to rekindle their relationship. My friend says that was quite a difficult time as her DH obviously still had feelings for his ex, but to be fair again, it seems that as soon as the latter knew he was married now she backed off. She started seeing someone some time later.

Meanwhile he and his ex were both making good careers for themselves in their related fields. Their area of expertise is quite specialised so over time – starting about 5/6 years ago – they have had to work together on various projects. My friend made a point of meeting her and ensuring she (friend) was included in any socialising if the ex was seconded to the DH’s branch and says she is actually a genuinely nice person. Friend’s DH and ex have kept in touch ever since the first joint project, and have remained in touch despite ex having left the original company to run her own consultancy. The DH has never been possessive about his phone or tried to hide their regular but not excessively frequent contact or anything like that. My friend has seen some of their emails over the years and they seem to be just chatty and often mostly about work or former colleagues etc. She has been engaged as consultant by friend’s DH’s sister company and they are going to be working on a project again starting soon for three months, and she will be staying in a hotel near where my friend lives. So far, so similar, friend had no concerns other than knowing the ex is now single, but given her previous respect for their marriage even that wasn’t a real issue.

At the weekend, my friend found (she wasn’t snooping – she was looking for something she’d put away in a safe place) what turned out to be a sort of journal/diary of her DH’s. She knows she was wrong to do so but she read it, and it is what she described to me as “a paean of love” for his ex. It spans several months up to very recently so she is fairly sure it is still in use and practically every entry apparently reads as a variation of him yearning for his ex – analysing their contact, commenting on her appearance in Facebook pictures, noting how certain songs or poems remind him of her etc. She read enough to satisfy herself that they are not having an affair, nor does he appear to be actively planning one, and it doesn’t even look as though the ex knows the extent of his feelings; there is no evidence to suggest any contact my friend doesn't know about or any complicity on the part of the ex. Nevertheless he is investing a huge amount of emotional energy on another woman but, bizarrely, without her apparent knowledge either. My friend understandably feels knocked for six but unsure of what, if anything, to do. She feels upset and angry but she doesn’t know if that’s unreasonable when it’s because of feelings that he isn’t acting upon. I feel quite helpless to advise her as I can see her point – ideally he wouldn’t be thinking about his ex romantically at all (and certainly not spending time writing it all down!) but from what she says about the things he has written, he genuinely doesn’t seem to have any intention of acting on his feelings. He just seems to have cast himself in the part of tragic star-crossed lover stoically making the best of life in his own little private fantasy. But it feels very wrong to me on a basic level and I'd be devastated if I found anything similar by my own DH.

Help, wise women of Mumsnet…

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DistanceCall · 20/08/2014 15:21

To be honest, it sounds like the relationship was doomed from the start. He was in love with another woman, married your friend only because she became pregnant, is still in love with her.

I would split up. Staying in a lukewarm relationship only because you have had child together is a horrible idea. And it's not fair for your friend or her husband. They both deserve to be with people who actually love them as a partner, not as a friend or a sibling or a roommate.

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DistanceCall · 20/08/2014 15:24

Also, it's important to bear in mind that being a good husband/partner is something different from being a good father. He could leave for another woman and still be a good father.

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WellWhoKnew · 20/08/2014 15:44

If I were your friend I would be contingent for every which case.

The situation is he is at risk of having an affair - so the what can the friend do?

The 'pick me' dance, which is utterly self-destructive for her own self-esteem.

Ignore it? Bury her feelings on the matter?

Confront it? But what happens then? They split so he's free to pursue his 'other' love.

Get marriage counselling?

This is incredibly difficult to say 'do this' because it's a real cross-road moment in your life, where you cannot know how the future is and you've just got to go with your gut.

I genuinely don't know what I would do. I do know how I would feel, and therefore your friend needs a ton of support and reassurance.

The sad thing is she feels 'second best' and has done for years. She needs to feel that she's best. And he needs to accept that, then if he can't he needs to go.

She can be her own best, and in time someone else's, or his. But the 'second best' attitude needs to take a hike.

She deserves nothing less.

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kaykayblue · 20/08/2014 16:18

I could not accept this.

Your friend needs to lose this notion of being second best - because that is bollocks. She might have been second best when they first met. She might have been second best when their child was conceived - but she stopped being second best the moment he (I presume) proposed. She stopped being "second best" the moment he said in front of family and friends that he would take no other, and that he would love her and respect her.

Maybe he can't help how he feels, but actively writing those thoughts down is incredibly stupid, BECAUSE YOUR WIFE CAN FIND THEM.

And then, in that moment, your marriage is effectively over.

It's not a physical betrayal, but it is a huge emotional betrayal. Normally, you see, when people break up, after a few years...THEY GET OVER IT. Especially if they have a wife and family of their own by then.

How can anyone be in a happy marriage when they know their partner would be with someone else if they could?

No.

If this was me I would scan in a particularly poignant page of his terrible poetry book, and e-mail it to him, along with the words

"I am no man's consolation prize. I have packed your bag. I expect it, and you, to be gone by tomorrow morning".

Your friend deserves so much better than this.

Maybe they will work it out over time, but he needs to know that this is serious.

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patienceisvirtuous · 20/08/2014 16:46

Couldn't have said it better kay

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tobiasfunke · 20/08/2014 17:01

This is a fantasy he has let become an obsession. A sort of crush that has got out of control. The only way your friend will be able to ascertain whether he truly loves her or not is to bring it out into the open and confront him with it.
Lots of people have daydreamy crushes and imagine perfect lives with other people. It's not based in any sort of reality and usually they catch themselves on. Most of them aren't so stupid as to write it down.
Your friend needs to present the evidence and ask him to leave, at least temporarily. Only when she see how he reacts will she work out what to do.

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hellsbellsmelons · 20/08/2014 17:14

Good grief.
No way would I be OK with this.
I would have to get him away from me for a while to get my head around everything and decide what I wanted out of life.
Does she want this life forever?
Does she want a man who will totally love her and her alone?
I know what I'd be choosing.
It must be really hard for her.

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doziedoozie · 21/08/2014 09:02

Will he move on once the DS leaves home?

Might the OW marry someone else so DH pines for ever?

Lots to discuss with him.

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SignYourName · 21/08/2014 09:25

Thanks again for your considered replies. I didn't have a chance to speak to her yesterday beyond a couple of supportive texts, but this is all very valuable food for thought.

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Twinklestein · 21/08/2014 13:26

I think the writing's been on the wall from the start. He was in love with this woman when your friend and he met, he's still in love with her. Getting pregnant in a rebound relationship is always going to be risky, I'm sure your friend was fully aware of the risks at the time.

To be fair to the husband and his ex, they have both apparently behaved well in the circumstances.

Unless your friend wants to be in a relationship with someone who is palpably in love with someone else, what can they do but separate?

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Ketchuphidestheburntbits · 21/08/2014 18:14

Your friend has to confront her husband. If he becomes nasty or defensive rather than apologetic for hurting her feelings it will give her a good indication of just how committed he is to their marriage.

The worst thing to do would be to ignore this as she will always wonder if he'd rather be with his ex.

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AnyFucker · 21/08/2014 18:18

Well of course he is having an affair. It might be physical (at the moment) but it is what is termed an emotional affair. Some people consider them to be no better and sometimes worse than a PA as they involve romantic feelings for someone outside of the primary relationhip

Your friend should let him go. He is no good for her.

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AnyFucker · 21/08/2014 18:18

might not be physical

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HesterShaw · 21/08/2014 18:29

To be honest I think there are loads of marriages where someone has "settled" and moon around in their head, at least, for their long lost lover. And I know I have had moments of thinking how wonderful the guy I loved in my 20s was/is and how I'd love to see him again. Except I don't write it down and I know that's the idiotic self indulgent teenager in me, and this man doesn't seem aware of this.

When it came down to it, would he really "be with someone else"? I think he just thinks he would, and that if he were actually confronted with "OK, choose: it's her, or me and the child" he'd become very alarmed and realise what he actually has. You never know what you've got til it's gone, as Joni sang :)

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HesterShaw · 21/08/2014 18:30

And I also don't think that writing poetry is necessarily an indication Troo Lurve Hmm

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Twinklestein · 21/08/2014 18:48

I think this is more serious than simply a fantasy woman - they were in a relationship not that long ago, they work together in the same field so have similar interests and skillsets. Even if it wouldn't work out in the real world, the husband is going to be pining indefinitely. I couldn't put up with that.

I dated a guy who wasn't over his ex once, it didn't last very long... Who wants to be with someone who's dreaming about someone else?

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AnyFucker · 21/08/2014 18:55

I would dump him for simply being such a fucking sap

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ElaineDarby · 21/08/2014 19:01

I think it's an issue with the husband's personality which can't be fixed.

Who was it who said "Love is an action, not a feeling"?

Many of us have strayed far, far away from an image of the ideal life; whether it be career or a Dream Man or Dream Woman. Maybe we're divorced and don't mean to be.

And we've got into what we do have, make the most of the parts we've been given, work through the wistfulness and image of how we thought life would be.

Maybe we end up going back as an OU student rather than the Oxford degree: maybe we end up putting 100% of our energy into making a good marriage rather than dwelling on the fact that our partner isn't what the media and films would tell us is The One when we first met.

And when we do that what's in front of our eyes, REAL LIFE, is far, far more exciting and makes us feel more alive than all the dreaming in the world. Put emotional energy into being decent to the people who ARE actually in our lives, and it will be repaid 1000-fold. Something unhealthy about obsessing over something with no return.

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AnyFucker · 21/08/2014 19:07

Elaine, that is a very wise post

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ElaineDarby · 21/08/2014 19:09

Blush(at compliment by MN goddess)Blush

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AnyFucker · 21/08/2014 19:15

Don't be daft. I count my blessings every day. I should have given Elle McPherson a run for her money. I should have married Brad Pitt and had his babies. My kids should be astronauts and rocket scientists.

The fact is, we are healthy and happy and together. I love that.

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ElaineDarby · 21/08/2014 19:26

Grin

It's actually really F**KING irritating, people who have this sense of "life could be better" and obsessing about what they don't have - even not in this OW context?

In my misfit teen years I had a friend (now ex) who used to sit and look wistfully at all the bigger, noisier, "glam" looking social groups and make little comments about how we were outsiders and what we could do to get into their group. Instead of, y'know, making conversation or suggesting stuff for us to do?

Constantly pining over what one doesn't have or over those who reject us is a form of self-loathing.

And who wants to love someone who doesn't love themselves?

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AnyFucker · 21/08/2014 19:37

Yeah, make your own happiness, stop looking for external sources to promote it

Therein lies lifelong disappointment

< not usually quite so PollyAnna like, but wtf >

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SignYourName · 23/08/2014 08:07

She's going to speak to him this weekend. She's talking about counselling to see if he can get over this obsession. She doesn't want to split up the family if she can avoid it.

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AnyFucker · 23/08/2014 09:41

The family is already split < shrug >

Who does she think needs the counselling ? Him ? Think again again ? Joint ? Think again. She needs individual counseling to find out why she is being such a mug for the sake of a bloke that is in love with someone else.

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