Do trial Separations work??

[brockenpurpleheart]

DH told me before Christmas he no longer has feelings for me. He denies depression and has been quite nasty, when he is really not a nasty person. We made christmas work and things seemed ok, but he has decided he needs space to sort out his feelings (which I suggested before Christmas). He is moving out next week when DS is away and will be back to discuss this with DS on his return.

He sees it as space to "see if he can get his feelings back".

We are going to relate, which has made us more civil to each other. I am heartbroken DS will be devastated.

My question is does this ever work? Have people got back together??

[brokenpurpleheart]

But people were not questioning faire they were suggesting I was naive for not thinking there was one.

I wanted, in my heartbreak, to hear some positive stories. Not those of doom and despair .... The thing is the majority of posters saying it won't work have not been there. They know someone ( the old friend's, sister's, brother's aunt scenario).

I actually feel much better today, much more positive. He is very, very sad and questioning everything. I feel I am in control of the situation a bit more. He is a good, kind and decent man. The last man on earth you would think would feel this way. He is getting help. We are getting help.

I really hope we will be ok, at least if we are not I can hold my head up with pride and say I tried.

[Fairenuff]

I was not asking about relationship itself just about the success of separation

The two go together I'm afraid. The success of separation will depend on the state of your relationship. And questioning whether there might be an ow is absolutely relevant as that will affect the chance of success too.

Your relationship is individual to you and your partner. Therefore, whether or not separation has worked for others is irrelevant. You have to look at your own individual circumstances.

All you can do is try it but lots of posters are saying, don't hold out too much hope, it is much more likely that this is a route to a permanent split.

[brokenpurpleheart]

Thank you true. It gives me heart that I am doing the right thing

[brokenpurpleheart]

he went to the doctors, dr suggested counselling, he refused, but agreed to relate, he has now agreed to individual counselling... I said he had been nasty which was out of character ... I was not asking about relationship itself just about the success of separation ... Many people offers good sound advice ... Some could not get over the fact he must be having an affair as they know others that have .... I will defend myself and DH .... I love him and I want this to work .... But I know I have to be strong and remove him from the situation for my benefit .... Even though in my heart I don't want it.

[DCRBye]

I think the OP is understandably frustrated here though. She was asking if separations work out sometimes and it gets off the issue a bit to start chatting about her DH having an OW. I am sure if she is 100% convinced he doesn't, she's right. She knows him better than anyone else.

She's also obviously feeling very down and that makes you defensive too.

Yes, OP, I do think trial separations sometimes work out. Of course they do. It might be just the tonic for your DH to sort his head out.

[Charbon]

I didn't read posts that I'd interpret as character assassinations, but I can see you're feeling very defensive about this.

Also, the situation you describe in later posts reads very differently to that outlined in your OP. Yesterday you said he denied depression, but today you say he's been back to the doctor's about his depression and has agreed to go on the counselling waiting list.

It sometimes happens on Mumsnet that a poster changes the picture according to the responses she gets, but really it is best to be honest with people from whom you sought help when you started your thread.

This can be a very confusing, bewildering position to be in and sometimes what happens is that any criticism of the person who's acting unkindly (you said initially your husband had been nasty) results in a rush to defend him and present his behaviour in a more positive light.

I'm not convinced that's healthy for you. I wish you well.

[brokenpurpleheart]

Thanks for the responses, except perhaps for leavenheath who seems to think she knows my DH better than I do.

I don't need to explain how, but I know 100% that DH is not having an affair, emotional or physical. He has returned to the doctors re his depression and the dr advised counselling. We are going to relate as there is a wait for his own.

It is a mutual decision to separate, suggested by me and agreed as a good idea by the counsellor. The idea behind it is to get some space to both think about what we want.

We have put together a plan of contact times etc. he is 5 minutes down the road in a mutual friend's spare room.

My initial question was to ask anyone for advice about trial separations - not for a character assassination of both myself and DH. Thank you to those who have helped and offered good, constructive advice.

[Charbon]

this article from Psychology Today by the late, highly respected Frank Pittman, explains the depression - infidelity link in detail.

It is certainly true in my experience that some depressed people are more likely to have affairs. To an extent it depends on the symptoms presented by the depression and the character/personality traits of the person experiencing the illness.

It is a myth that all people with depression experience the same symptoms and that all people act identically when in the grip of this condition. So whereas some people will resist human interaction, others will seek it.

Infidelity and other high-risk addictions or activities are often associated with depression. Sex or romance with someone new can produce a chemical high that is appealing to someone who has been struggling to feel anything much at all. Naturally that high will have a steeper trajectory in someone who isn't taking medication to regulate their chemical balance. In simplistic terms, it is analogous to the sugar high a person experiences when their glucose levels are depleted and in deficit; much more powerful than when those levels are normal.

In terms of advice to the OP, the only safe counsel is to acknowledge where your responsibilities start and end. It is understandable to be concerned about a partner's ill-health and to encourage him to manage it better. However, we cannot force someone to accept a diagnosis or take treatment. That responsibility is theirs and theirs alone.

It might also be helpful to acknowledge how self-protecting it might be to keep telling yourself that this hurtful behaviour is solely caused by his illness and isn't caused by any active decisions and choices on his part.

You have a responsibility to yourself and your children and so again the safest position is to assume these are your partner's choices and he means them. For your own emotional health, it is important that you respect his agency and what that means for you and your family. Try to hang on to your own self-respect and recognise your own right to live your life free of uncertainty and insecurity.

Psychologically, it is often important for people to have all the information available with which to make decisions, so unless you absolutely don't want to know if there is infidelity involved or other factors as yet unknown to you, you might find it helpful to consider getting as much information as you can based on what is likely.

I say this because it can be much more damaging to people's emotional health if lies are uncovered later on, or if a pattern is established of a partner leaving and coming back at intervals throughout a marriage; a situation which can be very disrupting for children especially.

[thatlldonicely]

Broken - where is your Dh going to stay - the reality of what we are going through certainly hit my Dh when he found himself in a hotel room - on his own, without any of his home comforts & without kids being around. Very different from being in the spare room. He is def thinking things through. still no idea what outcome will be but also made me realize i have had a part in all this too. he is having counselling on his own which is helping. I think you said your DH has his own business too which if hes anything like mine can never switch off & the boundaries between work & family can very easily become blurred.

[DCRBye]

When my Dad was depressed he took up with a hairdresser half his age, and paraded her in front of my Mother without even a second thought. Mum was devastated. These sorts of illnesses can do all sorts of funny things.

If the OP suspects, an the GP suspects he might be depressed it can be the cause of all sorts of things.

[DCRBye]

I don't have any documented evidence on the infidelity thing. I can just say from experience and from a lot of threads and depression support groups online that there seems to be a pretty high incidence of it. Particularly in men who don't admit they are depressed.

You can see the logic I suppose. They feel hopeless in their marriage, they feel they don;t love their partner, their illness blocks their compassion, their illness makes them a little selfish, they feel miserable and they are looking for a quick fix.

I suppose for the same reason a lot of depressed people sometimes commit rash acts. like quitting their job, moving to another country etc.

Not everyone fits into the depression stereotype where you retreat indoors. I have seen it cause very varied reactions in people.

Completely agree that there is still a huge stigma. Especially for men sadly :(

[thatlldonicely]

Broken - go with what you feel - you know your husband better than anyone - how someone who has never been in this situation can give advice and come over so knowledgable i dont know. Just because your husband says he is not depressed doesn't mean he isn't - depression does funny things to people and he may not be able to see it - there is still a lot of stigma invloved in mental health issues & he may have difficulty admitting to it. I dont know where the idea that depression may cause a higher risk towards infidelity comes from but normally you cannot love yourself never mind anyone else - -good suggestions from Blondie though -pm if you want x

[DCRBye]

OP, I don't agree there is another woman at all. My Dad has depression (he didn't admit to it for years) and he left my Mum for 17 months saying the exact same words as your DP. He eventually realised he was more miserable without her than with her but it took a bloody long time. He was vile to her as well. Depressed men can sometimes turn the blame outwards and as Lavender says they can often turn to an OW because they think it will miraculously change their life. Men have a very hard time sometimes in self-examining and a lot of them find it hard to realise happiness comes from yourself.

I am depressed right now, not horribly so, but mildly after going through a rough time and I can tell you I see everything in a very hopeless light and can completely understand how it could make you feel like you didn't love your partner. The problem for you OP is that if he doesn't admit he is depressed he can't get treated for it, which means it could go on for a long, long time.

You have to listen to your own heart on this. If you believe he is depressed then give him this space. I'd forget relate counselling. Depressed people can't sort out relationships until their own head is sorted and it is futile.

As for what to do...I wish I could tell you. In your position, I would probably give him space, let him know you are there and try and plan a few "fun" activities with him. Dates, days out etc.

I'd also develop a very thick skin because when people are depressed they sometimes can't feel any compassion and you have to learn to separate the man from the illness and accept anything he says / does might well be the illness talking.

Maybe suggest he does counselling alone? it might be far more beneficial!

[Leavenheath]

Erratum: I see this bloke has apparently been to the doctor, who suggested depression, but the patient won't accept that diagnosis or any treatment.

Which doesn't materially change any of the above, of course.

[Leavenheath]

It is me that suggested he leave, relate just confirmed it would be a good idea. We both need space to process our thoughts and he knows that he will return on my say so if that is what is decided

Looking at the OP's other threads (which I hardly ever do, but will often if an OP gets unnecessarily shirty with others) the above is a rather positive spin on events- implying a mutuality to the decision to instigate a trial separation.

This doesn't seem to be a trial separation in the conventional sense at all.

It's a bloke who's said his feelings have changed and he wants to leave home. A bloke who, despite the OP insisting is depressed, hasn't been to the doctor's and who says himself he's not depressed.

The most sensible advice the poster got on one of the threads was someone pointing out that even if depression exists it actually presents a higher risk factor towards infidelity, so believing an undiagnosed illness is at the heart of this doesn't mean that illness is an insurance policy against bad or unkind behaviour. Depressed people can do bad things.

So I won't be chalking this one up as the first thread I've ever seen involving a bloke who suddenly wants to leave home, who isn't being unfaithful at the same time.

Just because the OP insists he isn't, doesn't make it true.

[Blondie1969]

me and ex had trial separation (four months). She used that time to have two affairs and a couple of one night stands.

She used the "trial separation" to postpone the actual telling me that the marriage was over.

Trial separations can work if both people want it to work but my experience and those of friends suggests that one person uses that time to date other people, go out and act single forgetting the reason for that trial separation.

Split the time you and H spend into the following
With friends
Work
Together With children
One of you with children
"existing" along side each other
"quality time" With each other


Do you agree that you have the balance right. What tends to happen is that over time resentment/little issues causes you to spend more time with friends / other interests and less "quality time" with each other.

I for one think if both people want the relationship to work is to work together (through councelling), communication with each other.

Do you still have the same hopes and aspirations. What do you like about your life. What gets you down. What would you like DH to bring a smile to your face/make you happy. What would he like you do.

Timeline your relationship. When did feelings from ex start diminishing. Was there something else happening (kid being born, work not going well, death of someone close, money issues).

I hope it works out but i have seen a number of people have trial separations and in each case one person was not committed.

If you do go for trial separation. Do try and put boundaries into it:

ie
how will financials work
How will contact with DS occur
How much can you and DH contact each other (ie nothing for two week unless to talk about son, then two phone calls, one meeting a week
Can you date other people
Can you still have sex (there are people who have trial separation but meet up for sex with each other)
Who do you tell. ie you may agree that you can each tell one or two close friends all the issues but everyone else is told "we are having a trial separation to work things through but please try and avoid taking sides as we are working to get back together"
Can you seek legal advice
Time for separation. ie agree that it will be for x months.
Are there certain topics NOT to suggest in first month/ two months
What do you tell DS
Will you still have family time with DS. ie not sure how old DS is but if he's little (which i get the impression he's not) you may still meet up for an hour or two at weekend to go to park etc.

As various people have stated what do you want to change. What does ex want to change. Are the two lists compatible with a little compromise or are there some serious deal breakers.

Good luck

[Parsley1234]

Hi broken our therapist suggested agreeing to a break not that she agreed but she cd see if I didn't the relationship was over. My dp has depression work stress and my business has been difficult too life I think it's called I'm not sure what will happen but I completely trust her very well known therapist and sometimes people don't behave in completely reasonable ways. Who knows what will happen broken but I figure that by having space keeping my side of the street clean I will be in a better position than I was. I realised I was not exactly happy we are having this time out but i cd see our relationship had drifted and we weren't connecting well

[Fairenuff]

It is me that suggested he leave, relate just confirmed it would be a good idea. We both need space to process our thoughts and he knows that he will return on my say so if that is what is decided

I don't think you made this clear from the start. What you are saying is that you have asked him to leave and you are not sure if you want him back.

If you do take him back, do what Pear said and negotiate the terms. There is no point in a trial separation if you are just going to go back to how it was before. Use the time to decide what you want and make the changes that reflect that.

[CuttedUpPear]

DP and I had a trial separation over xmas. We have been together for 6 years.

It was at DP's instigation but I will admit that I pushed him into it.

It was shitty timing but at least I was excused the experience of Xmas with the MIL.

We didn't have any rules about no dating or how long it was going to be - and I admit that my head was really done in, I was a mess.

However a couple of weeks in I started to get some clarity. DP was showing signs of wanting to see me. I found myself in the position of being able to call some shots, something that I hadn't had for a long time.

DP was keen for us to get back together but I used the time and space to negotiate some terms.
We are back in a relationship now and things are a lot better. It's early days but we talk about things more and I feel that if we can continue like this, the relationship has a good future.

[brokenpurpleheart]

Well you have now.

[Leavenheath]

No I'm not bitter about men, love.

No reason to be. I've been married to a lovely one for over 30 years.

Just a realist, who's never heard of a man claiming changed feelings who wasn't having an affair. Plus I've been here for a long time and I've never seen a thread with these circs and there hasn't been someone else involved.

I'm also wise enough to know that unless you spend 24/7 with this bloke, you can never know '100%' he isn't having an affair.

So no, I don't hate men.

I do hate people being lied to and made fools of though.

[brokenpurpleheart]

Wow leave, just so you know I am no mug. He is not having an affair - 100%. Back story is his depression, what he is saying is he has no feelings. It is me that suggested he leave, relate just confirmed it would be a good idea. We both need space to process our thoughts and he knows that he will return on my say so if that is what is decided. You sound very bitter about men.

And ash thank you! I was kind of hoping for some positive stories! How long were you apart for? May I ask why you separated?

[Leavenheath]

First off, I take a dim view of Relate and the competence of its counsellors. This sounds like terrible advice they've been giving you, but I'm not surprised to see it.

The only trial separation I know of that sounds similar to this involved a bloke who parroted that 'I love you but I'm not in love with you speech' before buggering off to 'get some space'.

In reality, he was having a secret affair but still wanted the option to come back.

All I can tell you is that if my husband ever said this to me, despite it being far removed from his character, I would assume he was having an affair that he wanted to try out for size before committing to divorce.

I'm far too practical and long-in-the-tooth to think affairs are rare occurrences and far too logical to assume that the No. 1 reason for men's stories of sudden lost love (an affair) didn't apply to me.

My response therefore to a man telling me he no longer had feelings for me would be to let him go and refuse to have him back if he changed his mind.

I suggest you ditch this wanky counsellor, stop assuming he's an oddity who's not having an affair and tell him that you don't want to stay with someone who doesn't love you. Tell him to go and stay gone.