It's OK to LTB

[fuzzywuzzy]

Yes really it is.



I know sometimes we have tongue in cheek threads about partners and sometimes we have threads where one partner has pissed off the OP enough for them to need to turn to MN to let off steam.



However, there are many threads on this forum where the OP is being abused, they inevitably contain the gem 'He's a great dad' (hollow laugh- I told a police officer just that shortly after ex had beaten the crap out of me whilst I had dd2 on my lap, he'd managed to land several kicks on her too and didn't really give a rats arse he was hurting her...but you know he was a great dad ).



There seems to be this preconception on MN that we always tell posters to LTB, actually we don't, when posters come on here and talk about their cheating OH's the first call is never LTB, despite popular misconception there's always a list of suggestions and personal anecdotes including those who have come thro infidelity and have a stronger relationship etc.



Most of us take our cue from the poster.



However, there are very obvious threads where the red flags are flying at full mast, eg;

OP has to keep the house to show home standards of cleanliness with no practical help from her partner, is being constantly criticised for being slovenly because the house is not up to the immaculate standards of her partner (who does not do any housework himself)

OP is being told she should be having more sex as her partner wants it more and everyone else (according to said partner) is having more sex than OP is with her partner/ OP is accused she isn't initiating sex (enough).

OP has young children to care for and no access to money without partners permission, is financially beholden to her partner (he takes care of the money and works oh so hard).

OP worries about partners mood as he tends to be stressed from his job a lot and takes it out on her and the kids by snapping, shouting, being generally short tempered (I work full time and take care of two kids and manage the whole thing without expecting my family to pussyfoot around me, surely that is normal).

The OH threatens to leave OP if she does not improve.

OH tells OP he will take the children in the event OP dares to leave.

OP is looking for advice on how to be a better wife, but her OH has no need to improve it's her all her (according to her OH).

OP has nobody in RL to talk to/is isolated from family and friends, because her OH does not approve of them/feels they're not good enough/interfering etc.





In the above, you know something, LTB, you are a person in your own right, with autonomy over your mind and body. And you can live on your own very easily, because once you lose that dead weight everything becomes a whole lot easier.



Anyone telling a woman in the above situation to improve herself and try harder is frankly complicit in the abuse.



Useful numbers for anyone who wants to get practical help/advice;

Women's Aid 0808 2000 247



Rights of women They have several telephone help lines for issues.



CAB





I am fed up with the small contingency who ridicule anyone who dares suggest LTB on a thread, sometimes, it is the only solution, you can't make a relationship work by being the only one putting the work in.

Abuse is not only of the physically violent sort.

It is not normal or right to be browbeaten for sex, expected to be the household drudge, to have no access to money just because you do not WOH, to have to walk on eggshells in order not to set off poor hard working WOH OH. It so bloody well is not.


I'm going to work now but I had to get this off my chest.

[Anniegetyourgun]

A family that depends for its happiness on one member being unhappy is fundamentally dysfunctional. It is like a society based on slavery. It may work just fine for some but is at heart rotten and something must eventually give.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

@wonderingagain look up the difference between 'self-indulgence' and 'self-actualisation'. Sacrificing your life for others is an interesting idea but ask yourself, are these other people grateful or even aware of your sacrifice?

[tinkertaylor1]

sidge your granny had wise words.

[MistAllChuckingFrighty]

I was not criticising. If before wasn't your time, then so be it. If now is, go for it.

Start a new thread in Relationships ?

[wonderingagain]

I have an excuse, I had a lot of family things happen which meant the dcs needed stability and these events pushed my 'problems' into the background and on hold.

But now I'm back and furious and something's got to change.

I get this sense of feeling self-indulgent to want my happiness over the rest of the family's.

[MistAllChuckingFrighty]

It's always been up to you, WA. Nobody can do it for you. I hope you still think that you can though. One day

[wonderingagain]

Just checked 'threads I started' - My first was 2006 and all that's changed is my bed. It is now in the dcs room and he keeps the 'master' for himself. So no, Mumsnet isn't as influential as people might think.

[MistAllChuckingFrighty]

Great Op, great thread

I would like to add another pearl of wisdom, if I may

here

[wonderingagain]

I would add, if you have DCs, do it while they are little as it is much harder later when they are settled.

I'm still stuck after 24 years, let that be a warning.

[Sidge]

She really was wise, Anunearthlychild - she also told me that in a relationship there will be peaks and troughs and that is fine because without troughs there cannot be peaks.

She also said that if you never fall out, argue, disagree or row then one of you is giving in to the other. Two people cannot live together and agree on everything all the time.

[AnUnearthlyChild]

Sidge

That was one wise granny

[Vintagecakeisstillnice]

Can I also add if he/she verbally/emotionally/physically abuses their partner THEY ARE NOT A GOOD/GREAT DAD/MUM! !

No matter how well you think you may be hiding it the children will know something is wrong and it will affect them, may not straight away but it will.

[Sidge]

My wise granny said to me when I was first married:

"There should never be give and take in a relationship. That means that usually one person is doing the giving and the other person is doing the taking. A relationship should be about giving and giving."

I think that's really true.

[louiseaaa]

Wifework is an excellent book on all this .........

[garlicbaubles]

Bumping this excellent thread.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Very good post OP. The received wisdom of society, family and tradition is still - sadly - very much geared around women 'making a relationship work' regardless of the physical or mental expense to herself. 'You've got to work at it', we're told. 'Take the rough with the smooth'. 'It's selfish to only think of your own happiness'.

If there are some on MN who say 'LTB' or want an OP to LTB immediately, I think it's a very small counterbalance to that tidal wave of RL misogynistic pressure. And if MN support opens a few eyes or gives anyone hope that there are other options to pain, self-sacrifice and a life wasted as a result, then it's very worthwhile.

[MaryAnnTheDasher]

Yes yes yes.

[KalevalaForMePlease]

Great post, well said OP.

[MistressDeeCee]

Well said, OP. & all other posters on thread, actually.

Lately I'm noticing more this thing on Miumsnet of 'H works hard all day/is stressed' being pointed to (should an OP mention) as not only a reason for his bad behaviour towards his partner and/or family, but as a justification. I find it shocking and sad, tbh. As if having a partner is the be all & end all hence wife must do all she can to keep harmony in the home - even if she's feeling anxious and unloved, and she & DCs are shitscared and miserable. I dont get it, I really don't..

[JapaneseMargaret]

Brilliant thread. Utterly brilliant.

It is always OK to leave a relationship, if you would rather be out of it than in.

[BeCool]

whatdoesittake. I still feel shock daily that he did not choose the option to change. I don't even think he knows he had the capacity for it, yet I stuck with him for years longer than I should have, all the while believing and willing this essential change to happen.

Sometime you just have to let go of trying to understand and accept that you can't. Someone you love acts in a way that is simply not understandable.

[fuzzywuzzy]

I don't think anyone is going to leave a marriage on the basis of a thread on an internet forum either.

What really rankles with me personally, are the posters who all pile in to kick a woman who is obviously down.

Most times people do not want to be told they're living in a pretty horrific situation, but it goes a long way to giving the OP perspective when posters point out the OH is in fact BU not the OP.

What I find shocking is the increasing number of posters justifying really awful behaviour from the OP's OH with he works hard all day.
I'd reckon most of us work hard all day, it's no justification for being an awful human being to the partner you profess to love.

As posters have said, it's ok to leave a relationship, it's OK not to leave immediately if you can't and MN is an amazing resource to gather practical and emotional support and work out a plan to leave.

[FluffyJumper]

I was told to LTB 18 months before I did. But I was posting at that time looking for hope that things would get better.

[whatdoesittake48]

Most divorces are started by women - is this because they don't try enough or because the man they are with doesn't try to change?

I think the latter. Women never leave a marriage on a whim. it takes careful thought, they consider everything from finances, to the effect on children and put themselves last. they do everything they can to change themselves before they finally realise it is their husband who has been in the wrong all along. then they try to change them and finally accept they can't.

All of this thought process doesn't happen over the course of one MN thread. these women have lived with abuse for many years before they get the courage to leave and to say they are being swayed by comments on a thread is ridiculous.

[FluffyJumper]

... plus, if you want to leave, you don't have to wait for your partner to agree that it's for the best.