Will couples councilling sort out a mentally abusive relationship?

[Pompomfairy]

Hi, long time lurker here, finally plucked up the courage to post!

Ok so there is so much to this sorry if its long trying not to drop feed.

Basically P was abused, physically and mentally by his step mother and thinking about it probably by his father also. I have now come to admit he is now mentally abusing me. I think it started when I was pregnant with dd, who is now 18 months, he didn't want me to keep her I simply couldn't get rid so we kept her this could have Been the trigger.

So after months of rows tears from me we split. He managed to talk me round, I came home the abuse stopped for a while but started again, this cycle has happened 3 times now with him always persuading me to come home and also my dm persuading me to give it another go.

So the last time it happened I agreed to relationship councelling, we have had a consultation, the councillor decided, yes we could do with councelling and we would hear from them to arrange a date to start. We haven't heard from them yet and again things were ok for a few days then went back to normal only this time he says sorry after he has shouted me down for whatever reason.

So what do you think?

The thing is I feel guilty, what he went through as a child must have been awful and although I know he makes me feel awful I can't help thinking its not his fault, end up feeling guilty so just accept what is happening.

I am finding it so hard to forgive and forget, I think he thinks 'we will just have councelling and that will sort us out' I'm not so sure. I also don't know how to support him, everything I do seems to be wrong

Can you forgive the person that abuses you? I don't think I love him anymore, I don't know if I will be able to love him again.

Then there's the house, we have joint mortgage a joint bank account, I only work 11 hours a week as I can't afford childcare, what will I do for money? where will I live? What do we do about the house?
It's all such a mess I don't know what to think anymore, I feel like I'm going crazy!

Thankyou so much If you have taken the time to read and reply to this.

[MrsPnut]

Good luck, I hope you manage to stay strong. Please do contact Women's Aid helpline if you feel you need a bit of a boost.

[Pompomfairy]

Quick update, I spoke to his mum she is 100% behind me, we had a long conversation and from what she has said coupled with what he has told me, sounds like he has some serious issues.
He can't stay at his mums as him and his stepdad clash and that wouldn't make things any better, so I will be going to my mums tonight.

[ScaryFucker]

Good luck x

[Pompomfairy]

I think it will be ok telling his mum she is amazing and knows exactly what he is like, I'm pretty sure I will have her full support.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I really wouldn't share this with his mother until you've left. She is unlikely to be impartial and, even if she appears to be supportive, she may try to talk you out of going or - worse - feel obliged to tell her DS what's going on. So keep quiet. Leave first... then share.

[Pompomfairy]

I have told my mum I don't want to be with him anymore, I told her exactly how I feel and she said she woul support me, I think I'm going to have to stay at hers as I don't think he will leave the house. His mum is coming over tonight and I will tell her then. I have to go on a course in the morning but my mum is going to come over when I finish and be here when I tell him.

Wish me luck.

[Spelt]

In answer to your OP, no.

Doesn't matter that his problems are not his fault, it's your choice weather or not to have a relationship with him and on what terms.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I hope he goes quietly when you ask him to. The SS thing is another empty threat, the same as killing himself was a threat. I'm glad you say you've stopped feeling sorry for this man but, after such a long time, you'll find it's a tough habit to break. So understand that you're being threatened with being held responsible for a) his death and b) your child being taken into care.... and maybe that will help you stop pitying him and get angry instead.

Like others above I would strongly recommend against joint counselling because emotional abusers tend to use it as a platform for excuses, lip-service and to get more ammunition to use against you. I would strongly recommend that, once you ask him to leave, you go no contact beyond what is strictly necessary. Emotionally manipulative people will use any form of contact to screw you up. But you won't properly understand what I mean until you have had several months without him and realise how much he was influencing your behaviour for the worse.

Good luck

[BerstieSpotts]

To put it in perspective, I have known of two people have children removed by social services and I only have half the story. One of them beat her child with the metal pole from a hoover, and had also pushed the child down the stairs. The other had a totally chaotic life, was addicted to cocaine, and kept going through several abusive relationships which she would return to again and again. She also used to scream at and drag her child around. Despite this, the children were returned to her a couple of times before being permanently adopted.

He is trying to scare you into not seeking help because actually that kind of help would expose his own behaviour as very very wrong.

[BerstieSpotts]

No they won't.

Firstly, SS only become involved when there is a threat to the children - if you are kicking him out, then there is no threat. Plus I am not 100% sure but I believe they don't get involved unless there is violence happening.

Secondly, what he has told you is a load of bull crap. They do NOT pick on single mothers, and it is an absolute last resort to take a child into care. Their priority is to keep you and her together and to support you in this. So in fact, they can help you by helping you get/keep him out.

It is very damaging to a child to remove them from their parent(s) and security, SS are very aware of this (it's also expensive for them to find foster carers etc) - they only remove when they have tried everything and the parent is still not able to care for their child adequately. This is not the case for you, nowhere near. You are a fantastic mother to your child and thinking about what is best for her, this is clear.

I think it would be very unlikely that they were informed at all (they never were for me and I contacted 101 or rather my mum did about my ex potentially harassing us) and if they were then it wouldn't be because they want to swoop in and "save" your child. Taking a child away is very damaging and only better in very extreme circumstances.

[Anniegetyourgun]

"Social services will take your baby away" is No. 1 in the Abuser's Handbook which I am convinced they all read! XH used that very line to get me to agree to him buying a goat ffs (long story but I swear it's true). Social Services have much better things to do than taking babies away from single mothers who care for their children and don't listen to abusive arseholes who would rather they starved than drank formula.

[PumpkinsPieEyed]

Social services will not take your dc from you for leaving and abusive relationship and being single,
He really is a manipulative swine.

Do not worry about them if they do get involved it will be nothing more than to see how you are getting on after you get away from this turd.

[Pompomfairy]

He will be at work tonight is due home about 1am.
If I call 101 will the police get social services involved I really don't want this to happen, he said something once about them pickin on single mothers and that thy would be more likely to take a child from a single mother, this cannot happen! My daughter needs me and I need her!

[Anniegetyourgun]

... just realise that last sentence reads a bit like an excuse for him. Just to be clear, "the thing inside" isn't an alien, it's part of his personality. Changing your personality is not an easy or a comfortable thing. That is why so few abusers can, or even want to, address it. That, and the fact that behaving badly gets them their way more reliably than behaving well.

[Anniegetyourgun]

He has just phoned me... told him I was going to bed, he said oh but I want to talk to you... this is when I start to feel guilty and think 'well he's being nice to me now'

But that isn't being nice to you, don't you see? You said you wanted to go to bed, but you had to stay up and talk to him. Being nice is recognising that you're tired and should be allowed to rest - putting your needs first.

I suspect he's too broken to fix, but certainly letting him play manipulative games to keep you with him is not going to help him get better. And yes to what everyone else said about couple counselling. He may go with good intentions but it will become a game of getting the counsellor on his side, of turning it into "well you have problems too" which will give him an excuse not to have to address the thing inside that makes him behave abusively.

[BerstieSpotts]

Oh YY and PLEASE have somebody with you if you insist on telling him in person. I just can't imagine him taking it well at all :( worried for you.

[BerstieSpotts]

Oh I've just realised I really misread your post, you want him to stay with his mother, not you!

That is fine as long as you think he will be willing to do that. I would really advise though that it would be helpful to ring 101 now and say you are planning to leave your abusive partner tonight, and get the flag put on your address just in case he kicks off. Chances are you won't need it, but it doesn't cause any trouble to them to put a note on, and if you did need it, it could save your life. They won't ask you to detail any specific incidents or press charges. They might ask if you want any general support (say yes!)

Would it be worth taking DD to stay with your mother tonight in case he kicks off at home, so she doesn't see any of it?

[PumpkinsPieEyed]

Iv no advice to give other than what's already been said but want to say I hope you and you dd pull through this,it will get better.

You owe him nothing.

[BerstieSpotts]

He needs counselling, as others have said, not you. Not even that, but proper in-depth specialist therapy. Even if he was to have this, while it is going on it's going to bring up a lot of issues for him, which could make him more volatile. He needs to deal with this on his own - you're too close to support him through it.

I am not surprised if you did have symptoms of depression after your baby was born, but it wasn't due to hormones, it was due to him and his bullying behaviour. The formula thing is just

Don't tell him before you leave, please! Leave first, get to a place of safety, let him figure out the rest. Leave him a note if you absolutely have to. Sweetheart, you don't owe him ANYTHING, please don't worry about what he will think.

This isn't meant to scare you, but please don't dismiss it. He has been physically violent. Punching a wall is physical violence, it doesn't matter if it didn't connect with you. Coupled with the threat he made (it was you or the wall) this is one of the biggest red flags ever - if you push him, he WILL be violent towards you. The MOST dangerous time for a woman who is a victim of domestic abuse is when you are leaving or planning to leave. If he gets a sniff that you're thinking of going, then he will kick off - you need to keep yourself safe. That means getting to a place of safety - your MIL only if you absolutely trust her not to side with her son. Think about this. If you invite her over and tell her you want to stay and she says no, then what? You're now in a situation where he knows but you can't escape to a place of safety.

If you do trust her and you really think this is a safe option then you need to get some things in place. I advise either getting somebody else to tell him, leaving him a note or just leaving without saying anything. If you try to have a face to face or phone conversation, that's just another opportunity for him to (a) abuse you, and (b) try to win you round. Don't give him the chance! When you are at your MIL's, call the police non emergency on 101 or google your local station number. You can get her address flagged up so that if he was to kick off/turn up you get a faster response. This is just a precautionary measure, and again, if you don't think MIL would be happy with this, is it worth questioning her house as the best place to go?

I agree BTW that your mum probably isn't the best place to go either if she has persuaded you to go back before. You do have another option - you can call Women's Aid 0808 2000 247 at any time of day. You can call them now if you want to. They will probably be busy, that's OK, leave a message stating safe/unsafe times to call back. They will be able to let you know if they have a refuge place for you, which I would strongly suggest would be the best option here. It would be temporary, and there is also a lot of support attached to refuges which you could access much easier by being there in the first place. It's a safe house, they are clean and private and supportive. Don't feel like it has to be an emergency happening right now or you need to turn up needing stitches - it doesn't work like that, they support all (female) victims of domestic abuse including nonphysical abuse. They would much rather house you safely away from a threat of violence, than house you after you have been beaten up, this is their job. They want to help - please let them. Even if you choose to go back, a refuge will support and help you any time you need them, as many times as you need.

[Pompomfairy]

I will definately invest in a copy of this book.

Thankyou all for your support, I'm in such a lonely place right now, well you all know that feeling.

[Wellwobbly]

Oh, yes, the old 'I was wrong to do that'.

OP - if you read Lundy Bancroft you will find out they knew it was wrong when they were doing it. They know EXACTLY what they are doing.

Why are you allowing this fuckwit to control you? What are you getting out of it - a hope he will change?

Why don't you practise a few things - like 'it is not my job to be your punchbag'. Keep repeating.

Him freaking out is a choice. He could also choose to listen and respect what you are telling him have you thought about that?

You giving him boundaries is also a choice.

Please think about what you teaching your little girl about men. They copy what they see (the subject of my lecture yesterday)

[ScaryFucker]

Love, you do what keeps you safe first and foremost. If you are scared he will kick off, then you need someone with you.

[Pompomfairy]

Ok so my plan is to tell my mum today that I can't be with him anymore, I won't let her persuade me other wise. Then ask his mum to come over tonight so I can tell her and ask her if he can stay at hers until we decide what to do with the house etc (he will be away again tonight) I know she will understand, se knows exactly what he is like, his father treated her the same and she has already told me she will support me whatever I choose to do.

Maybe I should tell him first but I'm scared of his reaction, I dot want to be alone when I tell him.
On the other hand I know he will freak out when he finds out I told his mum first.

[ScaryFucker]

nice/nasty abuse cycle

google it

it's why nice people like you stay far too long with abusers

[ScaryFucker]

Why do you need counselling ? There is nothing wrong with you. There's a fuckload wrong with him, though.

Please leave him and make it permanent this time. Do it for your DD if not for you, he is a terrible role model for her and you are colluding with it if you stay.

Maybe he will sort himself out with individual counselling, maybe he won't. Perhaps only true loss will motivate him. He should not be allowed to treat his family so appallingly though in the meantime.