Is my DH just thoughtless or what? Sorry long.

[Moaningminny]

I know this isn't a terribly important issue compared to other threads here but I need opinions.
A bit of background- DH and I have had what you'd call a stormy marriage. I had doubts beforehand about our compatability and once we had kids things got worse in some ways mainly to do with differing styles of parenting. I stuck it out then once the DCs had left home we separated and I lived a single life for a while- to think about what I wanted for my next 30 odd years and whether DH was part of that.

DH was devastated that I may never have come back but I focused on his good points, came back and we started afresh. For a couple of years things were better and it was a sort of 'honeymoon' phase. He was thoughtful, brought me flowers and generally tried harder all round. But I set certain ground rules-my career had taken off and now that I was no longer looking after the kids too I wanted a more equal partnership with DH doing more around the house and sharing cooking etc.

I work from home for myself, so of course in between doing my work I'll do some cleaning, gardening, washing and so on. This cuts down on the work I can fit in of course and I'm only paid for what I produce. We have a very traditional set up where he comes in and finds a lovely meal on the table.

I am not happy with this and wanted some changes- I'd no longer iron his clothes but would wash them. I wanted him to make at least one dinner a week- weekends maybe- and do some housework- such as hoovering the stairs which I can't due to my back and lifting a heavy hoover.

But- here's the rub- he doesn't do any of this. I'd given him some slack recently as his mother is very ill and he's had to visit her ( long distance) so I'd managed the laundry for him.

He cuts the grass, puts out the rubbish, and that's it. I do everything else. He'll ask if there is any food we want when he goes into town at weekend. He doesn't offer to shop for and cook dinner.

I am getting increasingly angry with him, and the fact he is really untidy
doesn't help. A tiny example is he uses my shampoo which I keep in a cupboard in the bathroom. I always put it back after I've used it because there are too many bottles etc on the bath already and I have to move them when I clean the bath. Every single time- daily- he uses the shampoo he leaves it out. I remind him daily- he says he forgets.

We have ' the chat' about why I wasn't happy before and he promises to change.

If he read this he'd be shocked because he seems to think he is a good DH. They say divorces can happen over who left the top of the toothpaste and this is what I'm describing almost. I just can't see why an intelligent man gets it so wrong.

I know people might say just stop cooking - he's just make himself beans on toast- he wouldn't cook for me. I don't want a cleaner- there is no need with just 2 of us at home. But he's completely opted out- again- of anything at home.

[TheBadCat]

Personally, I would avoid giving him a list. Unless he specifically says that he would like you to tell him exactly what you want him to do and that he will follow this to the letter, there is no point. Do you want to fall into the role of teacher/mother/supervisor? I don't think that would make you feel any better.

Your standards don't match up. Either someone compromises, or you live miserably with him, or you separate? Which is most likely? Which is most appealing to you?

[FavoriteThings]

How many hours do you both work?

And are you leaving anything out. Such as he does all the driving, or something? Visits your mum twice a week because you cant, or whatever.

[AnyFucker]

I would not even consider trying to train a 50yo man

he knows how to mop a floor, he simply considers it beneath him

you, on the other hand, are good for such shitwork

[AutumnLeafMyArse]

He's perfectly capable of doing what you're asking. He knows it. You know it. He just doesn't want to do it.

You say you remind him DAILY about the shampoo. He says he "forgets". If you said to him this morning "hey babe, meet me in the bedroom on Thursday at 11.16pm for some bedroom athletics he'd bloody well remember that.

[motherinferior]

You are allowed to whinge about shampoo, you know

If housework is getting in the way of your productive, paid work I think this is really bad.

[FavoriteThings]

The ltb posters are allowed. Just wish that with a couple of them, it wasnt their only default setting.

I personally would give him a list. Doesnt sound like he will stick to it though.

[Lweji]

The point is that he has previously agreed (after a break up) with
I'd no longer iron his clothes but would wash them. I wanted him to make at least one dinner a week- weekends maybe- and do some housework- such as hoovering the stairs which I can't due to my back and lifting a heavy hoover.

He hasn't.

He has reverted to his old "she'll do it" setting.

Now it's decision time.

[NothingsLeft]

Why should you give him a list? That just creates work for you and absolves him from the responsibility of having to think.

Men are just as capable at housework. It's hardly rocket science. A lot just choose not to in favour of something more interesting. Women pick up up the slack & do the lowly scrubbing and cleaning while sacrificing work time in this case. Not on IME.

[motherinferior]

Well, if she LTB the OP would get a lot more work done, live in a rather nicer home and not have to be someone else's unpaid skivvy...

[peggyundercrackers]

if all you have to worry about is moving a shampoo bottle or move his shoes then you need to get out more - these are tiny little things and are no indicvative of someone who has no respect for someone else - they are obviously insignificant to him - and to most other people it has to be said.

Earlier on you say there is no room for the shampoo bottle on the bath which implies there are already other bottles there - why does 1 more matter?

[AnyFucker]

point right over head...

[PedantMarina]

It seems to me that he's perfectly capable of doing what he perceives to be the "manly" chores: gardening, rubbish, car maintenance.

I think you've got entrenched attitudes here that aren't going to shift in a hurry.

Given what others have already pointed out - that you had made a new deal and he's repeatedly broken it, you have to decide what you want to do about it.

[Moaningminny]

He doesn't 'expect' me to put his tea on the table- if I am too busy now and then and making myself a sandwich etc, or going out, he's quite happy with beans on toast etc made by him. But he wouldn't ever offer to make dinner. We had an interesting exchange last night- I asked if he fancied X or Y for dinner having got both out of the freezer. His reply was 'whatever is easiest for you'. As the choice was either nice sausages which I always oven bake, or grilled fish, it was not beyond him to cook either. He did ask if I wanted help- but given our history and his 'promises' and knowing how I hate cooking all the time, it wasn't a good enough offer.

I think my only options are an ultimatum and then separate if he falls back again.

And no- he doesn't have any other demands on his time. Leaves home at 7.45, comes back around 6.45, is away on business on average 2-3 nights every 2 weeks. Once he is home in the evening he flops and watches TV or googles men's toys/ sports gear online.

[Twinklestein]

While I think blackboards are for children, I do think the OP needs to sit down with her husband with the list of chores & divide up the labour.

It's basically like running a business, both parties need to know what they are responsible for. I also think it would be good for the husband to see the sum total of tasks written down. He then may see how paltry his contribution is.

But I agree that this is really about attitude. I'm sure the OP spelt all this out before.

[Twinklestein]

xpost with the OP. From what he said last night, it does seem like you are going to have to explain the whole thing all over again...

[Lweji]

Ok, if you don't want to call it a day right now, agree on a night (or more) when he's making dinner and ask him where's your dinner if he doesn't start working on it.

Put him in charge of hoovering every week.
Set a day for house work, where you split the tasks between the two.

[Tonandfeather]

Being blunt, it sounds like you two are together out of a mixture of convenience and fear, not love on either side.

You said you've had a stormy marriage, which is odd really as now it sounds stiflingly dull with two people who would be better off apart.

I don't think he wants you as wife or a person, it doesn't sound like he talks to you much when he is at home.

Plus it's obvious from your posts you don't love him. That's not to blame you if you don't by the way, it's just I think you probably think you should, so you insist that you do.

Much the same for him. He probably thinks after all this time he SHOULD love you. But he's mixing up wanting the package of marriage and housekeeping, for love.

It would be much more convenient after all this time if you did love one another, because he'd struggle on his own for a while without a housekeeper and you'd find money a problem but I think that's what's going on here.

You're both trying to pretend feelings exist that just don't, because it's too scary for you both to go it alone.

[WallaceWindsock]

The PP is right about you being better off apart. In a happy relationship where there is stability you wouldn't interpret leaving a shampoo bottle out as a sign of no respect etc, its the kind of thing that pops up on those "what about your DP drives you mad" threads which are lighthearted. We all do things that wind our partners up. I know that when DP was annoyed last night that I'd forgotten to empty the bathroom bin it wasn't because he thought I had no respect for him. It was just an "arghh you forgot again" thing. Equally DP doesn't cook much apart from bung in the oven stuff because he just has no palate. That isn't his fault and I wouldn't make him cook when we'd both have to suffer through over salted burnt crap. We've worked out between us what we're both happy to do. Have you actually discussed this with him OP or have you just decided what he should do? There are jobs I refuse to do for various reasons and jobs DP refuses to do. I do the ones he hates in exchange for him doing the ones I hate.

I don't know, I think when you are in a good relationship you can laugh about stuff like this, it doesn't become a huge thing which gets read as a sign of disrespect. In fact we were having a tiff at the weekend about something fairly trivial and ended up laughing. I think if you can't envisage that ever happening or you wouldn't be able to let stuff like the shoes go then there isn't compatability. I'm generally way more messy than DP and whilst my array of shoes by the door and scarves draped over every surface drive him mad he doesnt mention it because its not an issue as such, just a difference of taste and expectation. Not everyone likes living in a home with the same level of tidiness and minimalism. I know I'd hate to have everything tidied away, DP would hate everything left out so we meet somewhere in the middle. If either tried to impose their expectation we'd be miserable and you compromise because you love that person regardless of their imperfections.

[Moaningminny]

I've read what you had to say Tonandfeather and can see why you might think that- but it's not how it is. And I'm not being defensive here saying it's not like that because it's hard to take those comments- it just really ISN'T like that.

[Moaningminny]

WW- thanks. I see where you are coming from but again, it's your view of it all. I have compromised hugely- the house is not tidy. There is too much 'stuff' and mostly his. I compromise daily on putting up with things he has collected or leaves lying around. He just doesn't care so I am compromising all the time. You can maybe laugh about it in the early stages of a marriage but after 30 years and a break-up, then it gets tiresome. I think you are missing the point- it's not just about stuff and chores. It's about him meeting me half way and taking some interest in the domestic side of things rather than me being treated like his mum. I doubt you'd laugh that off.

[mistlethrush]

You've gone on the 'compromise' and you seem to be doing all the compromising and he isn't. Well put your foot down, stop compromising and get a large bin and clear all his mess that he has left lying around into it. Including the shampoo.

[Thisisaeuphemism]

Reading this with a sinking heart because I am like your DH and my DH is like you. We have a cleaner that has solved a lot of out problems- we both feel we have compromised on the tidiness issue.

Every few months or so, DH will get upset about something I see as peculiarly anal, he sees it as lack of respect for him. I have to say it isn't.
It's probably lack of consideration, I accept that, however, I sometimes just don't think about the shampoo for example!

Sorry that's no help to you op.

[Tonandfeather]

What isn't 'like that' though?

You left him once. I'd guess there's a backstory to that, but the point is at some point you decided there was a better life to be had. You decided that you didn't love him enough to stay with him and wanted something else. That didn't work out for you for whatever reason and so you came back.

You may have misinterpreted his 'devastation' as heartbreak, when it was just fear of being on his own. He may have misinterpreted your return as realising that you missed him, when it was just fear of being on your own. Only the two of you really know why you wanted to get back together, but look at the end result.

He works long hours, is away from home a lot - but when he is at home he gets involved in stuff that doesn't include you and escapes to the gym for 3 hours on each of his two days off.

He knows what needs to be done in a house because you've told him till you're blue in the face, because he's an adult, because it's FAIR and he also knows doing those things are acts of love.

He chooses not to.

I think you'd be so shocked if you really knew why he was there. I doubt you'd be shocked about why you're really there though, unless you're very self unaware.

When you left/came back you said your career was taking off. Now you say you earn very little.

He knows why you're there. He knows you're scared of going it alone, just as much as he is.

It's why he does nothing. He knows you won't leave.

[WallaceWindsock]

That's the point though isnt it. You either are in a place where these things aren't big factors therefore the relationship is good. Or you are in a place where they are big factors which is what you are saying your relationship is for you. There's nothing wrong with either stance. What you aren't doing is owning those feelings and acting on them. If after 30years you are unable to say "I don't think he's ever going to change but I love him, we have a fantastic relationship apart from this one thing so I'm willing to let it go and make this work" then you need to instead say "this is a big issue to me, I feel it is reflective of DHs general attitude towards me. I don't feel the relationship is good enough for this to become a nonissue so I'm not willing to continue like this and am ending the relationship".

You've talked to him and it hasn't worked, he is clearly of a different mindset to you with regards the home. You feel he isn't pulling his weight. No amount of talking about it on here will provide a magical solution to make him suddenly have an epiphany and start doing all these things you want him to do so you clearly need to own how you feel and act accordingly. You sound so fed up and miserable, that's no way to spend the rest of your life is it? It's in your power to do something about.

[TheBadCat]

I'll ask again, what are you actually looking for with this thread?

It sounds like you've made your mind up and you'd like to end the relationship. Is that right?

If you're looking for a unanimous LTB then you won't get it here. People have different ideas about the how important household chores are, not everyone will agree with your POV. Doesn't mean you're wrong for wanting the relationship to end though.