Abuse and the 'water torturer' - help!

[kirstyleanne]

I found an old thread on here regarding an ex who was a water tortuer and wanted to reanimate it but thought it might be too late. I am still in a relationship with my wt, who is getting counseling, but to be honest I am struggling to cope. If there is anyone who understands the extent of wt abuse I could do with some help on how to cope with this impossible situation and

[LawofAverages]

OP, you say you don't want to leave now as then you will feel like you haven't 'tried'. But why on earth would you want to 'try' to make things work with an abuser?!?

Especially given that you have a young DD who will learn everything about how she should act when she is older from how you act in front of her.

Get out asap and don't look back. I think he will reveal his true colours all too clearly once you've left and you will not believe how lucky you were to escape!

My thoughts are with you, I know it is unbelievably tough. But you will never regret it!

[AnyFucker]

Oh please. Him attending counselling and reading the standard texts on abusers is just giving him cleverer and more covert ways to abuse you.

You say you are on a learning curve re. his behaviour ? Please hurry up and get to the end of it, because you are wasting your life and giving your dc some very damaging examples of how women should shut up and put up where men are concerned.

Have that trial separation and don't ever go back

[superstarheartbreaker]

Please leave op...he wont change. It is very hard to leave an abuser but put it like this....would you ever be truly happy with someone who didnt have uour best interests at heart?

[Biscuitsareme]

Leaving is the only option IMO, however hard it is . You'll then be able to clear your head off him, and meet other people: people who don't know him/ like you for you and won't be influenced by him.

Don't inflict a person like this on your daughter in her permanent home. Yes, she may have to see him during access, but will always have a non-abusive home to return to.

[arsenaltilidie]

You'll be surprised at the number of people that have his number but i just keeping quiet about it.

[kirstyleanne]

I have thought about a trial separation. Even just for a week so I could have some head space. Just not sure though. Validation is my main problem I think. I just don't trust how I feel at all.

Reading through these threads though is helping me to understand all the little ways my thinking and behaviour has changed. Someone said on another thread about 'the effect of the mindgames on me has been that I expect people to think badly of me for any and every reason. I now second-guess everybody's reaction to everything I say or don't say. And expect them to misinterpret me and take offence.'. I could have written this myself and never thought to attribute it to the abuse! I'm just so used to people thinking badly of me because of things H has implied in front of them. Especially when it comes to his mother (who is also fairly PA) where he can't bare to disagree with her so will "imply" that any changes to plans/tension etc has come from me. This has obviously gone on for years to the point where she has asked H things like 'does she let you go out' and also has made nasty comments on occasions, to which obviously H then gets to support me and show how 'understanding' he is. I will never me able to alter her opinion of me, and this drives me mad.

lyra I'm not sure how well I could sum it up but it basically takes examples from literature/music/tv etc whereby women are clearly disrespected/abused and shows how this is portrayed in a humorous and acceptable fashion. It also covers the history of domestic violence and shows how from in the 18th century women were expected to be beaten by their H, up to the first laws which protected women in the 1990's!! Not that long ago! I haven't got the book on me at the minute so purely going from memory.

[Redoubtable]

''I can't work out whether everything is as bad as I sometimes feel, or whether it actually isn't that bad and that I'm just over-reacting, or whether it is just that bad but I am minimising?''

This is a normal reaction to a crazy maker....you know the truth. But they make you doubt it.

He ''is currently reading the Lundy book' ....I would have advised you not to do that. I made that mistake. An abuser will like nothing better than to have the 'lingo' to use to sound plausible, and it takes a very smart counsellor to see through them. And helps him to twist your thinking.
Go back insed your own head, find the truth.

Having a daughter...'he wants the world for her': I may be projecting here but with my ex, having a pretty daughter, is good only as much as it reflects on him. Her having independent thoughts, is not good in his book, and he colludes with our DS to bully her. Except DS has been taught by me not to treat anyone like that.

"I also think that some arguments are my fault. I am so sensitive to the things he does that sometimes I'm preemptively becoming furious"...se gaslighting. Always listen to the feeling of anger, it wont let you down. I fyou are feeling angry, then there is a valid reason to be angry, however much his 'logic' might override it.

" It seems obvious really but I've always thought of myself as a strong person"..hah! they love a strong woman, a weak one is no challenge.

[LyraSilvertongue]

Posted before reading your last post, OP. maybe counselling could work in your case, as he seems to be recognising that his behaviour is wrong. Or he could be trying to placate you until you "calm down" and he can start using his tactics again.

Is it possible to sum up the section on how they become this way? I haven't got a copy of the book.

My XP was also Mr Charm, Mr Everybody Like Him. Part of the reason it took me so long to leave was because I didn't think anybody would believe that Mr Nice was actually abusive. It was telling that, although most people liked him, he didn't like any of them. He was all charm to their faces and slagging them off behind their backs. Also he'd praise me in public, so people thought I was really lucky to be with such a kind, considerate man. Little did they know.

[MrsMinkBernardLundy]

i have changed but you are still the same card.

[MrsMinkBernardLundy]

kirsty he can try to change but you don't have to be there while he does it. so if it gets too much you can ask him leave while he sorts himself out. if he is serious he will.

Also be wary of him reading Lundy and thenagreeing it is cultural influence. he may use that as an excuse. bear in mind most men in thiscountry grow up in that culture but they don't all abuse their wives.

If he is to change needs to admit to all the privileges abuse has gained him and give them up. if he does not think you really will leave if he doesn't then he won't bother. and watch out for changing a little bit on the surface but not much really. it is very hard to change the whole way you think.

Basically keep your options open. just because he is trying to change dyes not mean you owe him anything. so watch out for the i have changed but are still the same card.

It may take him years to change. you have a lot of healing to do. you are entitled to a life while he sorts out his issues.

[LyraSilvertongue]

I've just read the description and it describes my XP. I don't know it had a name. He would say nasty things designed to wind me up in a calm and "reasonable" voice then ask why I was getting upset and raising my voice and accuse me of being mad. Ugh.

I left the bastard two years ago (several tears too late imo) and still he tries to abuse me in any way he can. We have two DC so I can never be completely free of him.

LTB, it's the only way. They don't recognise that they are doing anything wrong.

[kirstyleanne]

Oh god I'm so confused !!!

I can't work out whether everything is as bad as I sometimes feel, or whether it actually isn't that bad and that I'm just over-reacting, or whether it is just that bad but I am minimising??? Same with thinking it is partly my fault, is it . . . or is this just part of the abuse??? Aargh!

He does seem to be genuinely trying. Has admitted it is abuse and is currently reading the Lundy book. He complete agrees with the section at the back about how cultural values influence men growing up (even I was shocked reading that) and said that he can't deny whats going on when his every thought is written in the book. Also having a daughter I think helps somewhat as obviously he wants the world for her.

I also think that some arguments are my fault. I am so sensitive to the things he does that sometimes I'm preemptively becoming furious when actually he might not have been going to do/say anything? Does that make sense?

theolddragon and monty this is exactly how I felt when I discovered this term. It was my whole life written down with all the things that were making me feel crazy neatly explained. Simply put it made me completely re-evaluate my whole relationship and I am only just coming to terms with the idea of it being abuse. It seems obvious really but I've always thought of myself as a strong person and can't believe how completely I have been tricked into behaving like a victim. The worst bit is not being able to explain to anyone. Who would understand? I can't put it into words myself.

All the advice seems to be to leave but given how new this is to us, and how early on we are in the process of understanding and getting counseling, I feel like I would be giving up without even trying.

[Monty27]

Kirsty OMG, I could have written this. I've never heard this expression before, the water torturer. It never quite fitted with emotional abuser, so I couldn't work it out. He's well behind me now, I'm a year on.

There's still occasional emails and texts, he's being lovely, then when he doesn't get the response he wants, I'm a nutter, but I've had therapy and know I wasn't and am not crazy. He's just amazed it hasn't worked on me and he's finding it hard to accept it. bastard

All victims, be aware. And just get them out of your lives.

Theold I can't ever see me with anyone again, still after a year. No doubt in time I'll meet someone I can trust, from a much more advantaged position of experience.

[theolddragon01876]

OMFG !!! That is my exh described perfectly. All these years ( been divorced 11 ) and there he is. Ive spent years trying to describe his behavior and always felt people were thinking I was nuts/exaggerating/looking to justify why I left. It was always me the kids heard shouting,he told them I was nasty and the divorce was my fault.
OMG Im floored

Sorry, didnt mean to hijack but suddenly I feel vindicated

OP RUN,RUN AWAY FAST. It took me years to find myself again after him

[Redoubtable]

kirsty, no I am fortunate that he left some time ago. It was a strategy he used to break me and it backfired on him. Lucky me, I doubt I would ever have asked him to leave/left him (embarassment, kids need their father etc etc)

My STBXH is also immensely charming and helpful to all. Very well known, kind, a good organiser, well connected. Not one person would believe that he is abusive. Extremely careful never to abuse in front of witnesses.

I am to read Lundy but I also found this one useful. Wish I had read it years ago.

[kirstyleanne]

Sorry for taking so long to reply to this and thank you so much for everyone else who has!

Yes we have a daughter together, another reason why this is so hard. The thing I struggle with the most is the lack of understanding from the few people I have so far confided in. Probably understandable since I struggle to explain it myself! His portrayal to others as this immensely charming calm person is just so complete that I don't think I could say anything that wouldn't just reinforce the idea that I am the crazy one. It's maddening!

It is very closely linked to Passive Aggression and as another poster pointed out I am staying as far away from couples counselling as possible. I know exactly how that would pan out - not in my favour and only a re-enforcement of his behaviour.

Redoubtable - I've got the book at home and it is fantastic. Puts into words all the things you just can't explain or put your finger on. Do you mind me asking if you and your partner are still together?

XXX

[Redoubtable]

I've read through this thread and the ones linked to it....it's a relief to read of someone else who is going through this.
I'm going to download the book, read it and come back for advice, please.

OP if I had any advice to offer, it would be this. Don't engage in counselling with him (I made this mistake), he will enjoy using the language of 'therapy' to explain why you are unreasonable/what 'his truth' is/that you are controlling him.

There is NO way to manage while staying in a relationship with this type of abuser, he will never see the error of his ways. The only way to cope is to disengage. You must mentally plug your ears when he talks as anything he says will be only half true and you know whats real yourself.

[MrsMinkBernardLundy]

If you come over to the emotional abuse support tread you will get plenty of support on how to cope until you are ready to leave him.

Please don't make the mistake of thinking you can change him or even change yourself enough that he will stop.

But do please come to the tread where you will find others who share your experiences and who know exactly what you mean. and you can begin the journey of moving on to a better life.

[whatdoesittake48]

You have identified the problem - well done for that. it is the first step towards leaving, which I think is your only option. My bet is that this technique has worked for him for so long that he won't stop - not for long anyway.

these men do not love their partners. they hate them - thinking it is love. They have no respect and treat every argument like a game. enjoying the torture and thriving on it. Do you really want to be the one who is pushing all his buttons? he loves to see you squirm because it makes him feel amazing.

Imagine his face when you walk out the door because it might be the first and last time you see him squirm

[ninilegsintheair]

I am with a water torturer, OP, there is nothing you can do about them except get as far away as possible before they destroy you. Do you have children together?

[MadBusLady]

how to cope with this impossible situation

What exactly do you want to happen?

The "water torturer" in that old thread was an ex. That OP was asking for tactical advice because she had to deal with him because of their DC. Is that the case with you?

No-one on this board is going to give you tactical advice on how to "manage" an abusive relationship. You will get plenty of advice on how to get your head into the right space to leave, if you want to take it.

[ZingWantsCake]

it sounds similar to passive-aggressive behaviour.

must be hell.

I hope all of you who suffer will get the help you need

[lilithtime]

I was with a water torturer too, it nearly destroyed me. There is no saving this, how ever much counselling he has. It's his underlying belief system that is the problem, and you cannot change that.

I was so desperate to save my marriage at the time. In hindsight I wish I left much sooner. My life is unrecognisable now. Nobody regrets leaving an abusive relationship. Neither will you.

[mammadiggingdeep]

Why do you want to cope with his abuse?? LTB and you won't have to "cope" you can start living.......it sounds horrendous!

[MrsMangoBiscuit]

If you still think there is a future in this relationship, then I would suggest you leave until he's had some more counselling, and until you are feeling stronger, perhaps having had counselling of your own (seperately!). I think you need to get out, at the very least for a while, until you have a real sense for what's normal and acceptable in a healthy relationship, without anyone playing mind games with you. While you stay there it will be all too easy for you both to slip back into destructive patterns.

If you don't think there's much of a future left, then I suggest you leave and run for the hills!