BIL's sex addiction, don't know whether to tell SIL

[sodeveryone]

Name changed as this is quite specific.

DH received a panicky phonecall a few months ago from his brother and they spoke in a different language (they usually do) so I couldn't understand what they were saying but it sounded fraught. I asked DH what was going on and he revealed that his brother had been having multiple affairs, one night stands, prostitutes, hiring porn stars for sex since 2004 and one particular OW had started threatening to tell his wife and two children and was demanding money. BIL was asking DH what he should do. DH told him in no uncertain terms that he was not going to help him hide it.

DH and I went on holiday with BIL last week. His wife stayed home to look after their children. I arrived a few days later to give BIL and DH some time to bond and got there to find that BIL had hired an escort for the entire holiday. So we had breakfasts, lunches and dinners all with this escort. BIL acted as if it was fine. DH refused to speak to her and only engaged with BIL and I.

DH now hates talking about it, as he finds it all a bit dirty and he feels it affects their reputation as a family. He is ignoring the fact it is actually happening and hoping that it will go away. I have always been quite close to SIL but we live in separate countries, so technically we have only met about 10 times, but for extended holidays, in their family home, at our wedding etc. She is blissfully in the dark.

Would you tell her?

[PoppyField]

I'm all for fudging personal detail - Hell I've got a nickname like everyone else.

Like many threads on here that intrigue me, a scenario is drawn, a question is asked and then more info comes out as the thread progresses, naturally. OP asked for help with a moral dilemma that quickly turns into a morass of possibilities, all of which appear dependent on stuff we don't know. The bizarre picture of OP arriving on holiday to find a brother in law with an entourage of porn stars and prostitutes, whilst he leaves wife and children at home makes my mind boggle, so obviously this story has got a fabulous list of ingredients from the start. It seems disingenuous of OP to be baffled when she gets loads of responses that go big on 'What?How?Really?Never?Oh My!'. It is just one of those threads that turns question-begging into an Olympic event.

So unfortunately my response doesn't fit into either 'Tell Her!/Don't Tell Her!' category. My response is pure puzzlement and to wonder what makes this family tick. It's been fun.

[MrsCampbellBlack]

The OP clearly doesn't want to say what culture her DH's family are and that is entirely up to her. People fudge personal info on here all the time to avoid being outed in RL.

Personally, I'd see how things are with SIL when you see her and perhaps drop a few hints. But I'd be very wary of telling her directly especially if your DH is against it. His loyalty will be to his brother.

[Yogii]

Op, in answer to your specific question....

You'd be wasting your time, 100% - she already knows.

If you do tell her, expect a turn of the head or a lecture about culture.

[Teeb]

I meant anyone who knew a man with a wife a decade older than him, not originally from England and he went on holidays with his brother and sister last week really narrows down the pool of people you are dealing with. Anyone who would know someone in that situation has already put two and two together, but for the rest of us who don't know them (the majority if not all) it's difficult to give constructive comments without understanding more about the cultural background etc. I'm really not trying to be snarky, just pointing out that you have already given an abundant amount of detail to anyone you fear that reads mumsnet that know the people involved.

[sodeveryone]

Teeb people who know my BiL and SiL know things like where they live, where they come from originally, what languages they speak. If that info was linked up with a holiday last week they would put two and two together. They do NOT know that he sleeps with hookers.

I am baffled at the responses on this thread. There is a face-value question I've asked for which I've received some great responses and advice and bizarrely some other responses approaching it like it's a case filed at a police station which needs to be investigated. I've come asking for advice because I care about my SIL and I've left being accused of having bad intentions, concealing facts, being in denial about my marriage!

Poppyfield and Teeb I suggest you take the thread from here based on your version of things (or lack of). How much worse could it get?! Thankfully I won't be back to the thread to find out.

MAny thanks to everyone else for your great responses.

[Teeb]

Really op, anyone who knew that information already know the people you are talking about in that case.

[sodeveryone]

Poppyfield I'm giving details to the extent that I can knowing that my friends who are mutual friends of SIL and BIL come on here too and would recognise that BIL went on holiday last week alone and that they are from X cultural background and influence.

I'm happy to take opinions from people and hold an awareness that the context and extent of what I have revealed is not particularly expansive, and I've actually had some very helpful replies.

Do you actually have a response to my question or have you said your piece now?

Thanks so much everyone else for your opinions.

[PoppyField]

I've just read through this thread and there are so many holes in it.

Why doesn't the OP enlighten us as to where we are culturally with this family? What is normal in this family? There seem to be no fixed points in this tale - no geographical, cultural or social anchors to help us answer the question OP supposedly wants the answer to.

It would make sense to have some context, but OP resists all attempts to fill in that background. Many posters are questioning OP's reaction on finding herself on holiday with her husband's brother plus hooker - not surprisingly - but I get no understanding about her reaction because I don't know what is normal for her either. She doesn't seem too surprised somehow.

I'd love to know who these people are. They seem a pretty awful bunch all round. Bit like one of those country house murder mysteries where each of the characters are highly unlikeable and all have a motive!

[YellowTulips]

No worries - reading back it's my post that wasn't clear.

[Twinklestein]

Oh I see, sorry.

[YellowTulips]

Sorry I did actually mean the OP and her DH should speak to BIL rather than just her.

Of course that could just be her DH but personally I would want to present a united front given he flaunted his infidelity in front of them both.

[Twinklestein]

Tulips I really don't think sod should speak to BIL directly, that would be for her husband to do. It's much better to speak to SIL. But I think she should get her husband on side first. The SIL being older than BIL is an interesting bit of info, I had imagined her to be the same age as BIL & potentially quite naïve about men. But if she didn't get married until she was 35, then she must know something of the world, unless she's from a very strict family.

I would start the discussion with light, oblique references & judge her reaction. I think it would probably become apparent quite quickly whether she knows or not, & if so, sod can stop there...

[YellowTulips]

Why don't you speak to BIL and say you are not going to cover up for him any more and flaunting escorts in front of you and DH was a very disrespectful final straw.

I would say - accept you have a problem, get an STI check, seek counselling and tell your wife. You have a month to do this before I tell her anyway.

[garlicagain]

I understand why you say it looks like an addiction. I disagree, because sex addiction is known to those in recovery as 'sex and love addiction'. All addictions have at their heart a yearning for recognition; approval; love. In sex addictions this is more overt. An addict may be shagging a stranger at a bus stop, but is still seeking some kind of validation from the act.

In treating women as consumer goods, your BIL displays classic misogyny. It does seem that the women are a hobby to him - or, rather, he fucks women's bodies as an extreme sport.

I think you may be right that he's moving towards bringing 'porn stars' for consumption into the family home: he's deliberately pushing boundaries and this, again, is the inverse of addicted behaviour. A gambler, for example, tries to hide the extent of his dependence and to appear 'normal' or in control. Your BIL's doing the equivalent of moving into the casino!

This level of arrogance and misogyny, clearly, doesn't fall within ordinary parameters. It could be said he must have some sort of psychological disorder, but I doubt it would be of a kind that could be treated with love and patience. It's more of a behavioural disorder or, I'd prefer to say, a belief system. I don't know whether it's possible for someone with a sense of entitlement like this to alter their attitudes to other human beings - I suspect not. In any case, his wife deserves opportunities to protect herself from her husband.

[sodeveryone]

Sex addiction: BIL married SIL when he was early twenties and she was 35. They had kids straightaway. While this is absolutely no excuse for affairs/hookers/anything, I think that SIL was the only woman BIL had been with. I think BIL now has this child in a sweetshop attitude that has become out of control where he's seen what's available to him if he has the cash, and he pays for it. I agree this is terrible, but it appears to have become more of an addiction than a curiosity. It's the porn star thing that makes it become an addiction - he wants someone with a speciality, there's almost something geeky and autistic about it, like some sort of specialist badge collector.

[Polyethyl]

Good luck. I think you are doing the right thing.
Imagine how humiliating it could be for her if she discovers the cheating and that people knew about it and had left her in ignorance.
I would want to be told.
I hope the family repercussions aren't too bad.

[sodeveryone]

Argh, auto correct! *balance of family dynamics and different cultures and language barriers

[sodeveryone]

The problem is if I tell her before August it would have to be over email or on the phone. And when you can't be with someone in that moment you have no clue how they are reacting. Also she and I never speak on the phone. We occasionally text (very occasionally). So getting an email, call or text out of the blue from me would be very surprising for her - plus English is her second language, plus would give BIL time to minimise if he was going to do it. In August we have planned to spend a day together so I think that's much better - I can deal with issues as they come up. Also spending time together might actually make her open up about something she's insecure about.

I understand what you mean when you said I should've just walked out, but this is actually a very careful dance of family dunamica, whiff wrong cultures, language barriers. You end up learning more and being more useful just watching and then figuring out what to do, rather than being Ms Boundaries and throwing fits.

[garlicagain]

Am I the only one to assume BIL is a bit of a bully? I had supposed Mr Sod is somewhat in awe of him (under his thumb), hence the feelings of paralysis when confronted by his massive boundary-crossing on holiday.

[OctopusPete8]

I agree with regina actually as much as I don't want to upset you.
I wouldn't have left that alone tbh, I think maybe you should have a word.

[LaRegina]

Sod I'm sorry, I'm not trying to make you insecure; it's just as always on MNet when you read half a story, you (me!) can't help working out the other half...

I agree there's nothing wrong with you being happy for your H to spend a few days alone with his B, it's just that when it then becomes apparent that those days have actually been your H, his B & a hooker, and that your H has chosen to stay there and not walk, personally I would struggle to not have my imagination running overtime.

And btw, to all those talking about how the BIL may need 'help' - IMO he just sounds like a misogynistic prick, not somebody needing treatment for a mental problem out of their control. I would save your concern and pity for his wife.

[DontmindifIdo]

Well, I'm not sure I'd have been any happier to arrive on holiday to find my BIL there with a girlfriend, not SIL, than I would be to find out that she was being paid for her time. I don't think I could have sat down to eat with him at all knowing he was with another woman, regardless of what the status of that woman was. I wouldn't have ignored her, I'd have refused to have anythign to do with him.

Anyway, that's me, not you.

You are right to tell SIL, personally I'd do it sooner rather than in August. Her health is important. Can you talk to your DH and ask him if he'd rather tell her or tell BIL that he's going to tell her to give BIL a chance to come clean?

Does your DH think his brother has a problem or that he's just got a complete arse for a brother? If you agree it's that he's got problems, then you need to find a way to get BIL some help.

[TheRealFellatio]

Haha - yes, only on MN can the poor old OP ask for advice on a very specific topic, and end up defending herself over some other agenda entirely!

I think it's safe to say that if sod's husband had wanted some bonding time and hooker fun with his brother he wouldn't have taken her with him at all.

As the BIL married quite young is it possible that it was an arranged or introduced marriage, or some kind of marriage of convenience to a cousin? Perhaps they've never really been that into one another? Not excusing his behaviour, obviously, but it would go a bit of a way to explaining it.

[garlicsmutty]

I really liked that, too :)

Congrats on reaching - well, the only possible decision, really, though I understand what a minefield it seems from where you're perched. You're friends with the woman, so you know what sort of approach is most likely to get through to her with minimum fallout for you & DH. She's going to need some support, that much seems certain.

Just be careful, please, not to make it too oblique. Most people would experience a strong urge to become 'deaf' to the facts - I know people tried to tell me about my XH, but I heard their words while ignoring the message behind them. I bloody kicked myself later.

[Childcareisscary]

Dear sodeveryone
This is a very serious thread, but you have cracked me up laughing with one of your responses.
I really appreciate the responses, but it is pointless telling me that it is me, DH or our marriage which has the problem. This is not an essay question where you have to do literary criticism like an English a level. I asked a specific question - should I tell SIL? Not "my BIL uses hookers and porn stars - discuss."

I couldn't help it, I just burst out laughing very loud, and my downstairs neighbours must think I'm mad.
I think telling her obliquely is a good idea, but without being in the firing line.