An update but more advice required if I may please ?

[Mosman]

So he has a job in Australia thank god, that means we aren't in immediate dire straits any more.
He has to go off and attend a training course for two weeks in Brisbane which gives me some long over due space and takes away the heat and constant arguments.

It also means it's decision time really in my mind, I have excuses as to why we were still under the same roof etc and now they've gone so if I'm still here it has to be for the right reasons.

So my part in all this.

I married him for the wrong reasons, I was a single mum to an 11 month old baby when I met him. I wanted a family and a father for her and he ticked the required boxes, job, house, not an alcoholic or violent person.
He worked away a lot from day one and that suited me.
Our relationship has always been around the children, doing things as a family.
We have little in common, both need counselling to ensure we handle things properly and communicate effectively - even if not together - I appreciate pretending something didn't happen isn't the way to handle things.
I've also completely ignored his wishes at times, got a dog when he was adamant he thought it was a bad idea and it was.

The bottom line is having spent months digging through all this shit is that we both felt neglected at times, his response was the affairs and they were all very brief - weeks rather than months - he never wanted to leave at any point - they fizzled out quickly.
My response when feeling neglected was to have another baby, get a dog, another cat, move house, extend it - you get the picture - anything but throw time and energy at my marriage.

So if we both acknowledge that was wrong - he is being husband of the bloody year at the moment, flowers, cards, ice cream, breakfast in bed, 50/50 childcare and house work - can we work this through or is it just too bad ?
I've told everyone we know what happened.
My life without him, I imagine will be harder and tbh it's bloody stressful anyway.
I would still divorce him to make my point and then if we are together going forward it's because we both want it work.

[Mosman]

The children need stability and I cannot see that he can provide that in Australia, I may be able to provide it in the UK.
Of course they want both their parents to be happy too.

[TheNorthWitch]

What is best for your children - what do they want? Why don't you write down all the pros and cons of staying and leaving (for yourself and children) - it might make things a bit clearer.

Can you split up, rent and work till the children are older and come back to your own house later? If you really don't fancy him then I'm not sure things could ever work. There is no excuse for his affairs - he sounds awful.

[Mosman]

You did make me laugh shell it does rather slap one in the face doesn't it, he is a serial cheater and not even the drunken idiot type, he has affairs with emotional engagement, tells them he loves them and then kisses my children with the same mouth. Yuk.
I think this two weeks will be useful in that I get a little taste of life alone to see if I like it

[Tortoiseonthehalfshell]

HollyBerry, it's worth noting, as Mosman hasn't said it, that she was the main breadwinner for most of their marriage. They moved to Australia at his insistence that he would be able to find work here, and she gave up a lucrative job at that insistence.

As "cash cows" go, he wasn't high yielding.

Mosman, it strikes me that the only thing going for the 'try and make it work' factor is that it's logistically simpler. You don't fancy him and can't work out why anyone would, you don't like him much, and any sort of love you can muster seems very tepid. I understand that the current drama makes it hard to tell what you'd feel otherwise, but it's hardly a one-off on his part, is it? Much as you're trying to excuse why he had an affair...he cheated on his first wife. He cheated on you within a few months of being married. He cheated on you again. He cheated on you again. The man is absolutely, definitely, a serial cheater. I don't think there's moving past that, really.

[Mosman]

Again this is another consideration - in the UK I'd get help with childcare and could get the two littlest into a good private school with onsite CC.
In Australia I'm more trapped really as I don't have those options.

In UK it's all about me and in Australia it's all about him and being a family.

[DottyboutDots]

I'd say give it a couple of years until your youngest is at school, that will make childcare etc easier if you leave. You will also know by then if you are happy with him or not. These things are never easy.

[Mosman]

It would be 100% easier if it weren't for the whole UK vs Australia thing.
Basically he is not leaving Perth so my choices are stay, potentially struggle financial in Perth, have to work fill time with four kids, rent for the rest of my life and all that goes with that, moving every 12 months etc. but the kids would have their dad and I would have 50% of my time to myself.
Or go back to the UK, live in my own house be ok financially but be 100% on my own with the children.
Youngest is nearly three

[Mosman]

Like him - I know he's generally a good person, apart from md I d never known him shit in anyone lie to people or hurt anyone. Nope saved all that for me. So no not right now.
Love him - maybe, I feel something for him, loyalty, care about what happens to him.
Fancy him - no, the biggest shock in all this is that anyone else would want to have sex with him tbh.
We have sex, know his to get each other off, well did.

[DottyboutDots]

Why don't you think along the lines of short term, mid term and long term decisions? No-one is forcing you to make any right now and, personally, i don't think 2 weeks is enough break. I would counsel for a 3 month break to see how you feel living separate lives.

One telling post is your one on Sliding Doors. From that, i think you want out but are afraid that it's the wrong decision, which it may well be! None of us have a crystal ball and that's a huge step. It's easier to let fate decide sometimes, rather than taking ownership ourselves. If you leave and are unhappy, that won't be your fault; you have genuine cause as his behaviours have broken the family, not yours.

Regardless of the affairs, did you still like, love and fancy him?

How old is your youngest?

[Mosman]

He is staying in Perth, but his initial training is up there in Brisbane.
I'm at 2nd interview stage with a few organisations but in all honesty Perth is going through a lull so they are being very picky.

I think that's what I'm hoping these next two weeks will provide - an insight into life without him around, how I cope, if I miss him or not etc.

I don't think life has been particularly high drama aside of the last few months of discovering the infidelities and then of course the emigrating, oh and the redundancy and there then was the new baby, then the house move from north to south, oh and another baby. The wedding and a new baby.

It's been quite a decade hasn't it ?

[AuntieVenom]

Hi Mosman

Glad to hear your husband managed to get a job, is it in Perth or will he have to relocate to Brisbane? How did your interviews go and are you still looking for a job?

What do you want to do? I don't mean what do you think you should do or what would be best for the family etc but what do you want, deep, deep inside?

Given that it sounds like your husband is taking on more of the household responsibilities can you go away for a few hours/days and have some peace and quiet to think and make decisions? It might prove useful.

[Mosman]

Yes that's absolutely it, I'm living the dream.

[imaginethat]

I think you quite enjoy the drama. There is always drama in your threads. What would you do for drama if you divorced? I am sure you could find something.

[Mosman]

That's true, equally I feel I'm in this mess because I didn't have the confidence to go it alone in the first place and this feels a bit like my sliding doors moment.

[something2say]

Sounds to me as tho you made a bed and might now wish to lie in it??

Both made mistakes yes. Haven't got the backstory but you make it clear enough.

Why not each of you work out a few things you personally need to address and then get on with life? Come back every so often and check in,

Plenty of respect in the meantime, plenty of listening to one another and sober adult behaviour, in the light of what you started......?

I have a lot of respect for those who lie in the bed they made. We all make our beds in the end and if we don't like them, it is up to us to re make them. I think you can grow to love and respect a man base on his behaviour and you an grow to respect yourself too based on your own behaviour.

[MadAboutHotChoc]

Without love and respect, there isn't much basis for a real marriage.

He is a serial shagger and will never change. Let him go and you both can then rebuild your lives. He can still be the DC's father.

[Mosman]

It's hard to say if I've loved him in those periods in between simply because i knew about 1 and 2 deep down, didn't want to rock the boat though.
He lied about being at a job interview, needing to stay away overnight when he was somewhere else, positioning himself to shag somebody after a christmas party - I kicked him out on Christmas eve 2009 - again though I was 9 weeks pregnant with number 4, I couldn't deal with it then. As it happens she didn't fancy him so it never happened but i've no doubt that is the only reason. However that should have been enough to stop the 2011 affair though shouldn't it.

[Mosman]

I most certainly was not the OW in his first marriage.

I think I did love him at certain points within the marriage, on our wedding day yes definitely. He was caught out having the first affair within 7 months of our wedding but I kept it to myself - I was 6 months pregnant at the time.
The second one I understand why he sort of stuck two fingers up to me - I was out all the time with work and friends, he was holding the babies and got online and struck up a friendship which led to shagging but then when she asked him if he was going to leave he decided he wasn't and it fizzled out from there.
The last one there's no bloody excuse for opportunism pure and simple. He was working away Mon- Fri and I was making the effort to make it up to him, paying for his digs, cooking his favorite dinner on a Friday night etc, there's simply no excuse.

[WhateversNotTaken]

Did you ever love him though?

It sounds like you never really have.

I really don't think it's possible to salvage a relationship when there was never any real love there.

You know now that he's a serial shagger. I doubt that will ever change either. We're you the OW in his first marriage?

[onefewernow]

There you are then. I think you need to separate out those things you can learn from your own mistakes and bad behaviour( as I said, don't we all) from whether his activities suggest a man with potential for providing the basics. From that perspective it does look worrying.

[Mosman]

Well yes his first wife was mother Teresa and he cheated on her too

[onefewernow]

Mos don't whip yourself like this. You didn't ask him to cheat in you all those years. Yes you may have a part to play in the downfall- didn't we all- but he would have had affairs probably if you had been mother Theresa.

[Mosman]

Yeah that's probably true. I'm not cold and emotionless as the fact that I've been fucking devastated by his affairs has proven.
Whether I love him is really bloody hard to answer as currently I don't even like him, it hasn't always been that way but certainly from the start he was keener than I was and we ticked each others boxes. He wanted the family too, nobody held a gun to his head

[calypso2008]

I have read some of your posts in he past mossman
I think the relationship is over.

I'm sorry for you - it is tough, I am going through the same thing at the moment but in my heart, I know it is over. Nobody wants to go through it but I am hoping I will come out the other side more authentic and happier. I think you would too.

I am also in another country - it is so much harder without support around you. I know.