Not really thankful to my Mum for anything.

[ConfusedPixie]

Very obviously in relation to the 'thankful to Mum' thread but I didn't want to drag it down as it is a lovely thread at the moment!

It is making me realise though that I really don't think of anything to be 'thankful' for wrt my parents, especially my Mum. She's not bad or anything, she was just never a strong character, never encouraged me to be strong, always listened to my fears/upsets but always just said "Well, I was like that as a child and I grew up." so never actually helped me be constructive or did anything constructive about it herself.

I was bullied mercilessly both by teachers/adults around me and peers from the age of 5/6 to 18/19 in various fashions. I remember crying to her when I was about 10 saying that I only had one friend and she told me that she only ever had one friend growing up so I would be fine. I was always encouraged to brush the bullying under the carpet, to hide in a corner and not face it, I'd cry myself to sleep every night and I know that bothered her but she never actively tried to do anything to help. I'd cry to her most days but she always said that she couldn't do anything.

I eventually moved schools when I was 12 after a particularly bad incident where I snapped and ended up being bitten at school. She let the police talk me out of pressing charges and it was only because I refused to go to school when the school wouldn't even give the girl detention that I got moved. Second high school was just as fun. I should have been pulled out of school entirely. I still can't forgive her for her lack of trying to help when I was bullied through school.

When I finally told her, after a year of debating, that I was bisexual, she pulled a face, told me I'd grow out of it and that I shouldn't say anything to my Dad. When I tried to tell her that I was being sexually abused by my boyfriend she dithered and wouldn't talk about it.

She was a complete sap. No sense of strength in herself, no pride in her appearance (more pride in her refusal to be 'feminine'), never stood up for me, never helped me get my own strength or ability to handle situations.

She now says that my childhood/teen years have made me 'stronger' and the person I am today. It has made me who I am today, but I am not bloody 'stronger'. I'm a person who really struggles with relationships of any kind. I have no self esteem. I know nothing about how to look good and when I apparently 'look good' I feel ugly as muck. I feel uncomfortable wearing anything that is not jeans and a t-shirt. Cannot handle disagreements with friends so I just avoid having friends and up until recently fully accepted that my only friend in life would ever be DP, it didn't bother me too much as I didn't let it. I accepted that I should just lie down and not do anything about things in my life. Mumsnet has been more of a parent to me than my own mother, what a crock of shit, right?

My relationship with my immediate family is very blase. They are my family, but the relationships are entirely superficial. If any of them were to die tomorrow I would mourn for what I feel I should have with them, not them. It feels awful to admit that. My sister had an accident last week which could have ended horrifically, she's fine, but it did make me realise that I have no relationship with her and I was so upset by how close we came to losing her because of that, not because I love her so much.

[RabbitFromAHat]

I know I don't really belong here as I am fortunate enough to have a wonderful mother, and I'm so grateful to have her in my life. I am so sorry that you've all had to go through this.

I just wanted to say that my mother was abused and neglected terribly by her mother, and she tells me that she (as did my dad, who came from a different kind of abusive family) struggled awfully with the idea of becoming a parent, and relived an awful lot of her own awful childhood when she became a mum.

I know she always has and sometimes still does struggle to feel 'the right way' about her kids, and worried greatly about what she was doing right/wrong. However, she has always loved us extra-fiercely and she worked extra hard at being the most loving and thoughtful parent she could be. I can't say how grateful I am for that, and sometimes I have a little weep for her, although I would never say it.

It's a cycle that can be broken, and I promise you that your own children will have nothing but total respect and love for the fact that you're all doing that, every day, even though it must sometimes be immensely hard. I hope to be a mum soon, and I will be so proud to take her as my example. Have some from me, and for my mum too.

[Badvoc]

One of my greatest fears is that I am like my mother.
I don't think I am, but the thought terrifies me.

[GetOrfMoiLand]

Oh rabbit. Your poor mum. And what a lovely post.

One thing that I am constantly surprised about on mumsnet is the amount of women who have terrible mothers. It is very taboo to not speak to your mother in real life, people look at you as if you are mad.

I totally agree that people in normal families don't really understand what a pernicious family is like. Thank god for their sakes that they have been spared. I am very, very fortunate to have a close relationship with my lovely MIL - thank god for her.

[Shodan]

It seems that having a mother who believes ( and tells everybody) that she was the best mother ever is not as uncommon as I thought.

I have also lurked on the Stately Homes threads but never posted- I don't know why. Possibly because sometimes she tries at least to make an effort? But always (as a pp said) it's always with herself as the central theme. Or perhaps because, once you let some of it out, it all comes gushing out as an unstoppable force.

The one thing I did learn though was that when I had my DC, I could change the pattern. I could praise them and hug and kiss them and make them feel like there wasn't anything in the world they couldn't do. I didn't have to follow Mum's way. I could consciously choose to give them self-esteem, to not make it all about me.

And that has helped me.

[puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE]

Badvoc that is my nightmare also! I can see certain things in me that remind me of how she was eg. I find it really difficult to play with children, however I know how much it hurt me that she never wanted to play with us, so I push myself to do it.

[ConfusedPixie]

Sorry I haven't come back. yesterday was my birthday and things were hetic enough after a weekend of no sleep thanks to the cockhead I live with and desperately trying to find a new home between work and scouts (dropping a deposit off tonight and move in this weekend thank fuck! The first place we saw yesterday was great, after months of being unable to find anything 100 offers have come at once!) so the last thing I wanted to do was come on the thread and make things even worse for myself mentally.

My worst fear is turning into my Mum or Dad. I'm terrified of it. DP keeps promising me that I won't but how does he know? I'm already a bit of a hoarder like my Dad and when I get annoyed or angry I sound terrifying just like he did when I was a child. I'm already overly loud like my Mum, I've worked for years to learn how to keep my voice at It's embarrassing. I know that from my own childhood and experiences in school that there is no way I will ever send my children into the conventional schooling system. maybe not at all. I could not think for one minute of my kids going through even one bit of what I went through. They will be ding self defence classes to learn about respect of others and themselves, how to look after themselves and how to stand up for themselves and will not be dropping out like I did. I will not let them quit something they enjoy when it gets hard like I was allowed to either. And if they get ill like I did I will not be trusting doctors to do what right for them, I will be pushing and pushing for every test I can get to ensure that it's handled efficiently from the start and not get to a point that my health is at.

It's hard to realise how much your parents have failed you.

[AnneElliott]

I also grateful for this thread. I have felt this way about my mum for as long as I can remember, but I know no-one in RL who has the same problem.
Does anyone else have issues with buying cards? For mother's
Day or her birthday? They all say stuff like "to the best mum in the world" and I just can't send her stuff like that as it is not true.

[VenusStarr]

I have no affection for my mom. It has got worse as I have got older. She has never told me she loves me or that she is proud of me. We have no relationship. It makes me sad that I don't have a caring mom.

I'm very angry with her (and my dad). My sister had her first baby last year (first baby on our family) and my mom took no interest. None whatsoever. Her eldest daughter's first baby. I couldn't get my head round it. Luckily my sister and I are extremely close, so I had more than enough excitement and interest in her growing tummy and kicks from baby. My niece had a very traumatic entry into the world and ended up in SCBU for 2 weeks, 72 hours she was on a cooling mat. My parents don't drive, I left the hospital at 3am, cried on my own, devastated for my sister, her partner and my poorly niece. The next morning I spoke to my mom and said I would collect them to take them to the hospital. My mom said she was going food shopping first and did I want lunch :( no I want to be at the hospital with my sister.

I feel that parents really let my sister down. That is just one example. Thankfully my niece has recovered well and is nearly one. In the year that has passed they have seen my niece less than 20 times. They take zero interest in her, my dad called my sister last week and didn't ask about my niece.

I just don't understand their behaviour. I certainly don't respect them, like them or love them. It makes me sad that I haven't got a good relationship with them. I could quite easily never see them again.

[AnyFucker]

it takes me ages to choose a greeting card, I will literally be stood at the display for ages

I have to make sure the verse/greeting is appropriate (or rather, not inappropriate )

[Skinnywhippet]

I thought it was just me that had an uncaring, disinterested mother. I am more jealous now of my friends and their relationships with their mums. Now that I don't need her in a practical way, I realise I am missing out much more by not having an adult daughter to mother relationship. I feel cheated also. OP, I think the important thing is to make sure you don't repeat her failings with your own children.

[OneFingerSjupesUpTheYoni]

My mum rarely remembers to ask about my dc venus, when she does it is only about dd, ds is an afterthought :(

I'm very jealous of my best friend and her mum - her mum is very old fashioned i.e girls don't talk loud, drink, swear, sleep about, bare their shoulders etc etc and my friend well, did/does all that, she is definitely her fathers daughter They had a strained relationship till my friend had her dd 3 years ago. Now it's still uncomfortable for my friend because they have nothing in common but her dd brings them together, her mum pops in and takes her dd twice a week for the day and calls at least once a week to see everyones alright. Her mum bakes for her and does special baking for her dp she even buys them wee anniversary gifts it's so sweet :)

I look in from the outside thinking how nice it must be to have a mum so caring even if she was always so suffocating in our teens. She was just caring for her dd, she's a good woman my best friend is lucky.

[alcibiades]

I, too, lurk on the Stately Homes threads. Those threads, and this one, reassure me that I'm not the only one. And I've understood how difficult it is to get the point across to people who don't come from dysfunctional families. Or, maybe, some of them are still in the FOG. Or, as forgetmenots says, it's a taboo subject. If we try to explain to people from normal families what it's like, they'll try to find a normal explanation. VenusStarr's story is an example of that. "Oh, they're probably so anxious/worried that they can't cope emotionally; give them a break." Instead of the reality known to us, that actually they couldn't give a flying fuck. (But you shouldn't say nasty things about Mummy, should you?)

Also, one of other issues is that because the abuse wasn't of the kind that left physical scars, but was the kind of drip-drip abuse/neglect over the entirety of our childhoods, most of the individual examples we could give can seem very trivial to those who came from normal families. They only react to that particular anecdote, they can't see it as part of a lifelong pattern of unacceptable behaviour.

I'd like to relate one anecdote about my mother. While I was growing up, she often regaled me with stories about how she proved other people wrong. One story in particular was very important to her, and she repeated that story to me several times. When she was pregnant with her third child, she was warned several times by both her GP and midwife that this baby was going to be small, certainly smaller than her first two. She was adamant that they were wrong, and this baby was going to be bigger than her first two. Lo and behold, she was right. Her first two were 8-2, then 8-4 (me), and this one was 8-6, exactly as she had predicted. Cue smug face. And cue the retelling of that story to me several times, because that proved she knew better than the experts.

Fast forward to when I had my children. Bear in mind at this point that she was taller and bigger than me. My first was 8-0, my second was 8-4. Oh, look, mother, my second child was the same weight as your second child. Oh, no, she said, (staring determinedly at me), all my babies were over 9 lbs. I was taken aback by that, because I hadn't realised that birthweight was a competition, but clearly it was for her. On its own, that example is trivial. But it was the start of realising that she had a need to be better than anyone else, including her own daughter. That was when I began to parent my children differently; in particular, I decided it was important to say sorry to my children where necessary, because she never did.

She's dead now. I can't remember what her date or even year of death was, because I had gone no-contact a long time before and only found out by accident. I think I've got it written down somewhere.

Thank you for starting this thread, ConfusedPixie. I have wanted to tell the story about the birthweights, but felt it wasn't really appropriate for the Stately Homes threads. Of all the stories I could tell about my mother, that's the one that hurts the most.

[Hissy]

Buying cards is horrific!

i wonder, should we stop the anguish, the pain at the counter and actually by the MOST vomtastic one we can find?

IF anything is said, say, oh, I didn't read it, just thought the picture was nice...

[AgathaF]

Oh yes. Buying cards ........

[VenusStarr]

alcibiades yes! It's the embarrassment of having to try to explain to someone who has a healthy relationship with their parents that my parents seriously just don't care. At all. I don't understand it, so it's hard to explain to others. And they then try to normalise it, but there's no way to normalise that a mother takes no interest in her children or grandchild, no explanation at all.

[Waspie]

Oh buying cards.... I have taken to buying the generic cards with no writing inside. I cannot bring myself to buy the "most wonderful mum" type cards.

In fact my mum threw a huge sulk/wobbly at Christmas because the card my sister sent her wasn't gushy enough. My sister was so upset and told her to do one (yeh, first time, I was so proud of my sis for finally sticking up for herself )

Perhaps we could start a new range of greetings cards for toxic parents?! (sorry, bad joke).

[Xiaoxiong]

I've been lurking on this and the stately homes thread for a while - my mother is not as bad as many so I feel a bit to presume to compare her to the behaviour described here. Thank god she doesn't do cards or mothers' day and her birthday is a day which shall not be named so at least I don't have to suffer that awfulness.

However there is much in common as well that now I have DS I just feel is the height of cruelty. No expressions of love, pride, encouragement or affection - in fact, she has always said explicitly that if she did praise me or DBro this would reward us for just "doing what we were supposed to do" and any praise or affection would cause us to immediately stop over-achieving. Of course we were over-achieving to try and get praise and affection - it never worked, the bar was always raised just as we jumped high enough and we were a disappointment yet again.

But to the rest of the family and the world, she is a wonderful incredible mother because she raised two incredible kids and she apparently gushes about us behind our backs. No one believes me when I tell them what she says to my face My DBro tells her nothing and has an incredible ability to ignore her when she is speaking directly to him, and ignore everything she says - I react every time and then get accused of being thin skinned, taking things personally, being a drama queen.

I am pregnant with DS2 and she hasn't spoken to me since I got my BFP - but no one believes me!! Conversation with my aunt (her sister):

"oh your mother must be over the moon"
"well I don't know, she hasn't spoken to me since February"
"oh come on, don't be silly, she must be so happy!"
"I'm telling you, I really don't know as she isn't speaking to me"
"oh please, she wouldn't do that, why don't you just call her?"
"I have tried, she won't pick up the phone to me or answer emails"
"oh I'm sure that's not true, she's just busy probably"
"for the last 20 weeks??"
"well she's probably just worried about you, why don't you give her a call"

ARRGHHH!!!

[AgathaF]

Xiaoxiong - congratulations on your pregnancy . Her non-acknowledgement must be so hurtful.

[Xiaoxiong]

Agatha and you have just proved ConfusedPixie's point again: MN is a better mother than my mother in showing me what the right reaction should be from her. Her behaviour is still hurtful but not soul-destroyingly hurtful like it would have been just three years ago before I started lurking and then posting here.

(Thankfully my wonderful MIL is also a better mother than my mother.)

[puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE]

I send all cards to her from my DD. I don't send them from me.

[FuturePerfect]

Alcibiades, what makes me sad about your post is that you were still trying to make some connection with your M, seeking some kind of bond over the weight of your second babies - and she rejected that. I remember hearing about a scientific study where baby apes would still cling to a stick covered in fur, in the absence of real mothering, even though it could never suffice.

[TheArmadillo]

One thing I struggle with, having come to terms with my upbringing and having been non-contact with my family for years, is not people disbelieving me but people being very shocked and appalled by 'anecdotes' about my family/upbringing. This is stuff that doesn't reach my top 10 of crappy stuff they did.

They often get upset or angry and tell me how awful it is, and I don't like it. It makes me feel bad for upsetting them (though they don't mean to make me feel like that). Also my dh believes I still don't comprehend quite how bad it/they all was/were, and I think this is a factor. I think it's an interesting anecdote and they think it is horrendous and I find that difficult to deal with.

I try not to let it put off me being open about what happened to me though and I think it helps me understand how what I was brought up was very not normaL. Also it stops the secrecy families like mine love as it protects the abuser and keeps the victim from building support or realising what is wrong. I think talking about this stuff is important.

[AnyFucker]

a stick covered with fur

and again

[GetOrfMoiLand]

Oh bloody hell I remember reading about that study on monkeys. They must have experimented in the 60s or something, it was a really old book when I read it as a kid in the 80s. Some of the mother monkeys had been xperimented on themselves and wee terrible mothers, beat the baby monkeys aeverely. I remember that the baby monkeys would keep going back despite being beaten, didn't lose their faith in their mother. I remember feeling sickened when I read that as it made me remember my childhood thrashings and pleaing for them to stop, and I also remember wanting a cuddle afterwards. Bloody horrible memories. And yes the baby monkeys would cuddle a stick, or pretend monkey mother in the absence if anything else.

God I hadn't thought of that in years,

Yes to the grimness of buying Cards. My gran was the type of person who would be furious if she didn't get those monstrous cards with sentimental verses of devotion etc, and even though she was my gran I had to call her mum, so the cards had to say 'wonderful mother' or something. Strangely even after I left her (moved out when 16 And got in contact with my actual mother when I was 17) I then somehow had to do the same for my mother to 'make up' for lost time. So another set of cards with sentiments I didn't mean.