Just asked H to move out (temporarily). WTF do I do now?

[Ginshizz]

H and I have been together for 9yrs, married for 5yrs. We have DD who is just about to turn one.

Things have always been up and down but started to be awful when I fell pg. H was unsympathetic and, I can't think of a better way of saying this, mean.

There have been too many arguments to mention but I think at the heart of it, he feels unhappy in his work / life and blames me for this. He hasn't said as much but I think he expects me to make him happy and the when he isn't happy, he blames me. He is in counselling as he had a pretty crappy childhood but he has been in counselling for YEARS and nothing seems to have changed.

We have been to couples counselling (instigate by me) twice. He gets all inspired about better communication, a more adult way of approaching me / life and this is great but it only lasts for a few months.

In terms of specific things that are wrong, the main one goes back to him being mean. He points scores, tries to 'catch me out' with things, always assumes a negative intent in everything I say or do (I realise that sounds as if I am generalising. I am not. I mean always and everything). He puts so much energy into trying to make me feel like a bad person yet he does nothing constructive to improve his own life and to deal with what he says are the main things that get him down.

For example, he is self employed and business is going well. He claims to hate bits of his job but won't consider getting someone else in to do them even though he could afford to. He complains about feeling sluggish and tired the whole time (NB I have done ALL the night duties with DD and I work) but insists on drinking a lot most nights, smoking heavily, eating poorly and going to bed late.

He complains about not having enough creativity in his life (stifled by me, obvs) but when I suggested a way that he could free up a day a week to do something creative (meaning I would take on extra DD and financial commitments so he could do this) he accused me of being a fascist and a martyr. (Which I thought was an interesting combination).

I feel that what he likes is to complain about seemingly insoluble dilemmas rather than doing anything to solve them IYSWIM.

Eg I did a masters degree a few yrs ago while working full time. I got early, worked late, worked weekends etc. When I suggested that, in order to incorporate extra creative time into his week, he could get up at 7:30 (GET UP, not even start work), he told me I was being outrageous and that is not the kind of life he wants. NB I have been up at 5:30 most mornings last week to fit in work before DD gets up as I look after her most days as well as being the main income earner.

I feel like I am living with a lazy adolescent, not a 40yr so called adult.

So I asked him to move out for a few days. I said i would cover the costs. I just need some space when I am not being criticised and stressed out by his behaviour.

If we sold our house, I could afford a little place for DD and me and that thought makes me happy. Thinking of staying with him makes me feel sad and heavy.

Bugger. Reading back, I think I've already decided to leave, haven't I?

Holy crap. WTF do I do now?

I am sorry to post and run but I have to go out now so I might not be able to check MN again until later this PM. I could really do with some advice / hand holding / someone to come round and drink gin with me?

for reading

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

The DH doesn't think he has a 'case' to be supportive of.

[squibb]

Well if that is the case Cogito then that is something you and I would both agree is wrong.

[AnyFucker]

You didn't pick up that message from this thread, squibb ?

[redskynight]

I disagree with squibb's comment Get DH to get on the case, be supportive of him, but don't do all the hard work on your own. After some hard work on both sides, live happily ever after as it sounds to me that the OP has already tried her damnedest to do this with nothing but abuse back.

My XH behaved in ways that remind me a lot of the OP. My XH had lots and lots of expensive therapy over a long period of time, I bent over backwards to help and support him, he treated me like dirt, and I would have ended up very ill or dead had I stayed with him. My conclusions now, some people are just abusive shits. Sometimes all the kindness and therapy in the world will not make a difference, but in fact enables them to continue behaving in the same manner and not take responsibility for their actions, and they will never change because they don't want to. Sometimes staying with someone that treats you badly so you can 'save' them, is just a sign of codependence not love. If you end up tiptoeing around someone and not putting boundaries around their atrocious behaviour, because they have a diagnosis of whatever, that is not a way to live.

At the end of the day, we are all responsible for our own lives and happiness only, not that of another adult. I am so completely relieved to be out of that insane relationship, I wish I had had the strength to do it sooner, and my XH has not changed he just now has other people to mistreat. Trying to help him cost me so much emotionally and physically.

[mistlethrush]

OP - he's been in counselling for years, you've gone to joint counselling where he's promised changes that peter out, you suggest ways (which will involve more effort for you) that he could do the things that he wants to, and you're already shouldering more than your fair share of the partnership - and getting him out results in 'relief' - get to CAB, a solicitor, and make sure he doesn't come back.

[squibb]

mummytime

You're quite right you can't diagnose someone over the internet but these days "bipolar" covers a wide range, however reading the original post again I would say that it's perhaps a step too far.

And yes I have had some issues, but not quite like this (but that's another story, with a happy ending I might add). I wouldn't say I am projecting, but I can certainly see that someone might be intimidated by a partner that is educated, is able to get up at 5:30, be the main bread winner and be the main carer of the DD, as that is quite a feat. I can also see the OPs perspective, and that living with an 40year old adolescent is frustrating and ultimately bringing her down. I would get sick of doing pretty much everything, and the pressure it can bring.

Anyfucker

Yes, but not so much on first reading with tired eyes.

I'm just a little dismayed that there are so many threads of hopelessness on here, where there are stories of real nastiness, physical and emotional abuse, infidelity and all sorts of shit. That the minority of cases where there is something worth saving, or that there isn't the prodigal OW or that it is just a fundamental misunderstanding, those cases just get the same short shrift.

But the question of "worth saving" is ultimately down to the OP.

[redskynight]

Squibb - I am really struggling to see where in the OP she wrote anything that looked remotely like this was a relationship that was only mired by 'fundamental misunderstanding'. Or in fact one where the OP's partner might have bipolar.

What I read from it, is real nastiness and emotional abuse.

[squibb]

9 years condensed into a few paragraphs, I don't suppose we have all the info, it would be worth just pausing to consider the possibilities first.

As for misunderstandings etc, I am referring to the general vibe on the forum not this thread specifically.

[AnyFucker]

The "general vibe" on this forum is that women should not capitulate to society's pressure to appease men that are not worth it.

And Thank God for that.

[ChloeR32]

This takes me back to my uni days and I do remember some things!
It very risky suggesting mental illness when someone is considering the momentous decision of ending a marriage. It can illict feelings of guilt when there is already enough guilt and responsibility flying around.
It takes several months and at least two professional assessments to diagnose someone as bipolar. A GP can't diagnose it because they don't know the patient well enough, so we certainly can't.
I'm sure best intentions meant.
Even if it is diagnosed - it's no one's responsibility to 'fix it'. He is responsible only for himself (and DD but it sounds as if that isn't happening)
You can't be responsible for him, despite any clever guilt trips he might try to lay at your feet.
you are responsible only for you and your DD and that's it.
Hope it all works out for you
x

[Ginshizz]

Hi all, I only have a few mins now, I will respond properly later but I wanted to say thank you for your posts.

Squibb, the issue of bipolar is very interesting. I can't say I know that much about it, I will look into it and see if it had any relevance. What I can say is that DH may well have MH issues but I have done everything I can to get him support. I got him to see his dr who referred him to anger management, I got him to go to counselling, I got him to go to couples counselling. But I think that's the problem - the impetus has always come from me, he has not taken any responsibility for his behaviour or words. I feel that, if he does have any problems, I am now enabling them by continuing to support him if that make sense?

I have to run but thank you again and I will post properly this PM

[AnyFucker]

Gin, that makes perfect sense

[Mumsyblouse]

Squibb I'm sorry but I disagree entirely. Most posters know on here that I am not of the LTB variety and often encourage people in long marriages to explore any opportunity to relight the spark etc.

BUT: the one thing I would leave my husband over, and have been on the verge of leaving over is constant criticism. To be picked at, picked up, criticised, blamed for any failings in the other person's life, essentially held responsibile for their failure to thrive and be happy when you are just getting on the best you can is soul-destroying. In my husband's case (he is not bi-polar and my own uninformed opinion is that the OP's partner doesn't seem it eitehr and you clearly have your own agenda in relation to it)- it's just his personality default, he forgets to be positive and starts being negative. It's awful, and if he was like this more than occasionally, and it was flourishing as his normal pattern of behaviour like the OP's partner I'd have to reluctantly call it a day.

If you have tried couselling, both individual and joint, and he has always been like this and shows no sign of deep down change, I would very sadly admit there's nothing you can do. Basically, the OP could sacrifice her happiness on the alter of her partner's sadness and it still wouldn't make any difference. Some people prefer to blame others for their misfortune and never take responsibility and living with this type of negativing is wearing beyond belief.

[Mumsyblouse]

And- my point still stands if he does have MH issues. You can sacrifice yourself if you want, but it won't change him, as he doesn't want to change or isn't able to change, whichever it is. I would not abandon a partner if they got cancer and got mean for a while, but actually, if it changed their entire personality and they were mean for years on end, a whole decade, then I would leave. Illness is not a get-out clause for years of bad behaviour, nastiness and negativity in a marriage.

[Ginshizz]

Hello,

Right, DD is asleep so I have a little longer to reply.

MH - this is a tricky one. Having read a little bit about it, I don't think DH shows any symptoms of bipolar although I am no expert so I could be wrong. I think he has addiction problems (fags and booze) as he insists on drinking and smoking despite them having negative consequences on his life.

I think his addiction problems may stem from depression but again, I am not an expert so I don't want to say this for certain.

He definitely has issues that are related to his family and upbringing.

In one of our joint counselling sessions, the therapist said he was acting out his childhood problems in our marriage - ie he felt persecuted as a child so he now persecutes me. This was a HUGE revelation to me and DH had a bit of a eureka moment. Which lasted for two weeks and then things went back to normal.

I feel that there is now no more I can do to help him here. He needs to take responsibility for his feelings and actions and learn that grown ups can control their behaviour. I think he is using his childhood as an excuse not to grow up emotionally.

I do not say this lightly. I didn't have the best of childhoods but by about 25, I had worked out how it had impacted on me and decided I wanted to be my own person, not a product of inadequate parenting. I feel DH isn't able or willing to disentangle his adult self from his childhood and consequently he is stuck as a moody teenager and treats me like the parent against whom he has to rebel.

Sorry, I know that sounds crazy but that is how it feels. He often has a go at me for laying down rules. These rules include checking the bath water before putting DD in it, locking the door at night, weighing DD every couple of weeks for the first six months because she was a very low birth weight and the consultant told us to monitor her. So in my eyes, these are not rules, they are just what I consider to be normal behaviour. But to DH, they are traps I have devised to make his life complicated and to constrict his creativity.

In terms of responsibility to and for various people in my life - I am, at the moment, the only one responsible for DD as DH has chosen to opt out of most of the parenting. Any responsibility I have, or had, to DH, I feel I have more than met. I have tried very hard to help him but he won't help himself and it is now at the point where it is damaging me. If I get screwed up by him, it means not only will I be miserable, but I will be a crap mother to DD and so she will be damaged by it too.

The comparison with physical illness is an interesting one. If someone had a terrible physical illness but chose simultaneously to ignore / deny it, not get help for it, and to take it out on me, I think I would leave. I believe one has to take responsibility for one's own health, physical and mental (excepting proper psychosis when that's impossible); and that drinking, smoking, going to bed late etc is good for neither.

If seeing three different therapists can't help DH change his crappy behaviour towards me then I really don't think it's within my ability or remit to do so either.

My biggest fear is that DD grows up thinking this is an acceptable way to be treated by one's partner.

Sorry, that's a huge rant! I guess I just need to put it all down to help process it.

I really appreciate all of your responses,

[LemonPeculiarJones]

Brilliant post gin.

Your intelligence and good intentions are clear. You've made the right decision.

[mistlethrush]

Well said. You've done what you can - you can't feel guilty now because you could not do more without impacting upon DD and you are (and should be) much more responsible of her than of your H.

So - can you get to CAB, have you rung a solicitor for an appointment, can you make a new bank account and start separating your finances?

[squibb]

I have to admit the more info that is presented the worse it sounds. Constant insults is not really part of the deal.
It has to come from him, he has to want to behave in a right and proper manner and if he doesn't see there is a problem that's not good. If he were to see himself as others see him what would he think? With something as simple as diet, light exercise and reduced alcohol havin a big potential positive effect on his life to refuse such steps seems off.

The successful the details of behaviour appear very child like in nature. Facing up to reality and responsibilities might be tough for him.

I'm sorry for banging on in defense of men folk in general but they do get a hard time on here and they are not all bad. so i

[Ginshizz]

Thank you both and sorry for ranting.

We actually have separate bank accounts anyway (his choice, not mine) so that part is easy.

H is looking after DD on Friday as I have meetings to go to. I think I am going to see if I can fit in an appt with a solicitor between meetings.

My only real practical concern is the house. H put in a bigger portion of the deposit but I have paid for more of the bills, renovations etc. I want to push for an equal division of profits from selling but I don't know if that's feasible. I will see what the solicitor says.

I know he will be fine with me having DD as long as he can see her whenever he wants (which is fine by me). I also suspect he won't fight me for custody of the pets

All feels quite surreal...

[Ginshizz]

Squibb, sorry x posts.

Don't worry about defending men ... I am sure most are more deserving of defence than H!

[AnyFucker]

Gin, you sound totally sorted and have your head screwed on. It is no life to be treated like a bossy parent by someone who is supposed to love you

I couldn't respect a man like that

[Ginshizz]

Thanks ... I don't feel that together tbh but I am focusing on the practicalities.

What you say about respect is very true; I just have none left.

Fortunately DD is gifted at keeping me busy so I can't dwell on things too much!

[Moanranger]

Gin you have made one hell of an effort & it is now time to move on & focus on yourself & DD. You H sounds similar to mine - his talk is one endless stream of criticism; this got to the point where I had a rule if he couldn't say anything nice, then say nothing, so we would sit in deathly silence. People like him resent people like you. I am similar, a coper, the one who sorts things out. It's sad really; I think my STBXH would like to be more effective, but he doesn't know how, so he simmers in resentment.
I suspect your partner's endless criticism mirrors exactly his upbringing.
BTW, in terms of splitting assets in divorce, 50:50 is the general rule.

[Ginshizz]

Thanks moanranger sorry you are having a similar experience. It's crazy that we copers are resented rather than supported isn't it?
I told one RL friend who has been brilliant and pointed out that compared to the last nine years, getting a divorce should be easy!
Thanks for the info re assets. I am so clueless right now but I had better sort that out ASAP.
And congrats to you on divorcing a criticiser