Have just completely over reacted to DH, what is wrong with me?

[ThatsNotMySock]

Bit of background - have been feeling general low rumbling dissatisfaction with DH, nothing major just a combination of me being ill and not getting out of the house much and him being tired and choosing to sleep/be on computer rather than talk to me. Honestly nothing major, but I'm feeling quite tetchy and tending to blame myself for him not wanting to spend time with me in the evenings when it's probably just that he's tired.

Anyway, this morning he was on fb talking to someone (female) he worked with 2 years ago, she had friended him, was asking how he was, and asked his to sign a goodbye card for someone they used to work with who was quitting. So far so normal, right? This girl who's leaving, my DH never really said they were good friends but took her out to dinner without my knowledge when they were working together

He also used to do overtime even after the shop should have been closed (most days actually). Said sometimes he was working, sometimes just smoking outside with "the boys". I was at home at the time with a very cranky sleep-rejecting baby and would have welcomed some support, but ended up feeling quite a lot of resentment.

Which I thought Id got over, but clearly not as when he mentioned about signing the leaving card I asked him if that wasn't a bit weird, seeming as he quit 2 years ago, claims to not have had much contact with her, didn't get on with her that well, so why were they chasing him up after 2 years? I told him I wondered if there was more going on, obviously they at least got on better than he said if 2 years has passed and people still think of him when she's leaving, plus a million other irrational lunatic things about what he might have been doing when he said he was working overtime (9am-11pm at least days)

He was understandably furious with me, I said far too much (and he said, and has said in the past, some pretty horrible things about me, one reason I feel a bit insecure I suppose), and I think I was quite irrational, but I know he's lied about things in the past so my heads all over the place. I will apologise to him when he gets home, but he said before he left he can't live with me because of what I said. Why did I get so crazy? Why couldn't I bottle it up?

Sorry for the long post.

[garlicballs]

It's very sweet of you to think a marriage proposal means love, Delia, but sadly it can mean a lot of other things. Ownership and control can be labelled 'love' but the word doesn't turn them into positive qualities.

Sock joked that she'd rather be marrying the cake. I suspect her unconscious mind knew exactly what she was saying at the time.

[deliasmithy]

I think what you are confusing, garlic, is that love can mean different things to different people.

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

delia - that is all very well, if both parties are accepting of their share of the blame and are resolved to turn things around.

The situation that the OP is in, where she has become the emotional punchbag for her husband's angry outbursts and is expected to tolerate them without flinching or be accused of being 'crazy, irritating, mental' and so on, is quite, quite different.

Sock you are so passive in this. You are letting him call all the shots. He has asked you what you want for your birthday, which you take as him not wanting to end the marriage. So your plans to be on your own have gone out of the window seemingly?

[garlicballs]

I didn't confuse anything, delia. I query your assumption that Mr Sock must have loved OP "because he married her".

[AnyFucker]

Good lord, delia

You are advising OP to take all the blame...to acknowledge that her own behaviour causes his anger and contempt

Is that serious advice ? Really ? A man like this would take that as a green light to carry on his emotional abuse of her.

I would never, ever take that road in a thousand months of sundays. I would leave first.

[AnyFucker]

I expect OJ loved Nicole Brown Simpson when he married her. < sigh >

[deliasmithy]

Get a grip people.

Im not suggesting she take blame and own his behaviour.

Im suggesting she take blame for her own behaviour and use that angle as temporary leverage.

How on earth are you managing to twist my suggestion of avoiding an argument in order to get counselling for the both of them as allowing bad behaviour to continue?

As I said, its a last ditch effort that could be employed. The counselling or ending it is a solution, my suggestions is a means.

[deliasmithy]

Garlic, of course other reasons are involved, but you cant diminish one persons definition or meaning of love just because it doesn't fit with yours.

AF - and Jesus loved us once but he left!!!
Yes. I can do that too. Doesnt it look silly. I came on here to comment on op's message, not get drawn into schoolyard games by some with a swear word in their name.

[AnyFucker]

No, your pronouncement that just because he married her there must still be a kernel of love and affection for her against the evidence of all his actions is what helps to keep women in abusive situations. The societal expectation that women must subsume themselves to appease a man at all cost to herself is a very pervasive and damaging one....one that you seem keen to promote.

I suggest you stop reading the bible, quit looking for the love and honour in people who have none and start getting real, delia

[Branleuse]

Hes been abusive to you. You didnt overreact. he will grind you down to a shell of yourself.

He even got you apologising for not being happy with being abused, and he sneers at you when you cry!!

I could cry for you xx

[garlicballs]

you cant diminish one persons definition or meaning of love just because it doesn't fit with yours.

I said "ownership and control". I certainly can 'diminish' the definition of anyone who calls that love.

I thought you were just naive & dippy. I'm beginning to see you have some sort of happy-clappy, vaguely sexist agenda.

[hellsbellsmelons]

Branleuse has just said exactly how I feel after reading this thread.
I cannot imagine why you are still apologising and trying to make this work.
He is abusing you, and it is what it is.
You can carry on being unhappy or you can get out and get some happiness in your life.
The choice is yours!!!

[ThatsNotMySock]

delia He cant get defensive if you say this

He can and he frequently does I've tried this angle before, going in very gently, making it my issue and that I need his help and being very careful not to attack him. It's worked once, he listened and tried to understand. He said he hated himself for hurting me, but found it difficult to know how to fix it or see why I would still be upset. He promised to read up on the Lundy Bancroft online resources, and we left it at that.

A couple of months later another issue came up and I addressed it that way again, the instant reaction was "Oh my god, why can you never let this go, how long are you going to keep throwing this in my face for!! Shut up and leave me alone!" (It wasn't exactly the same issue again and again I should add, it was something that made him seem as if he'd been untruthful and I wanted to get to the bottom of it rather than keep worrying).

But yes, I do agree with you that he's being childish/pathetically manchildish. Was he always this bad? Before we got married, no. After? Gradually. It seems the more stress he has, (harder job, kids, responsibility) the worse it gets. Have I always been this insecure? Nope. Not had this issue in previous relationships. I have been very insecure since he started insulting me. It's not my natural state, I'm usually a bit feisty and arse kicky.

Alibaba I feel so passive, just exhausted by the whole thing. It feels like it would be easier to cope if it's his decision, I could just get on with things. But he would have to move away if we split I think, and feeling responsible for him being away from the kids feels awful (though I know it's really his fault, iykwim, it would be me now making the decision and that feels very scary.) The kids love him, but he doesn't love me. Who do I put first?

Branleuse and hellsbells

[deliasmithy]

Garlic,
Making personal disparaging remarks doesnt add weight to your argument.
It would be easy of me to be deliberately offensive to you back but there is no purpose. Come on now, don't resort to this.

We have a differing opinion. I did not say x and y "are" love. What I said is that we can all have our own definition. Doesnt mean we behave that way or it comes out the right way. I was also referring to past feelings, not current behaviour. It was you who made that connection.
My comment was designed to provoke a response from op - I was not clear from what has been said whether this dynamic has always been present or whether its worsened. My impression from first post was that this has not been the status quo in the past.  

[deliasmithy]

Sorry op. Cross posted again!

Ok, then that does sound more problematic. It certainly does sound like he doesnt have the capacity to understand the issues. The ultimate block is going to be whether he is prepared to communicate with you.

[garlicballs]

I know this is really hard, lovely. But ALL children love their parents, it's coded into them. They're not making a choice, iyswim, because they've never had another dad to compare him with.

Children are born with an inner directive to love their parents, and be loved by them. Whatever they receive from their parents in the early years, they experience as love. When they get older and meet more families, where the father doesn't insult the mother, they notice the difference ... and start justifying their own dad's behaviour to themselves. Thus begins the process of learning to justify abuse :(

It is worth removing children from an abusive parent, comforting them through the separation, and explaining that we don't live with people who disrespect us. This is basic self-worth. He can still be their dad, just not in the same house as you.

[AnyFucker]

To take this a step further...

I am sorry to say, that in my own experience, as one grows and sees a different and more respectful way for fathers to treat the mothers of their children....then it is likely they will start to wonder why they weren't protected from it

My father was not someone you could call a good role model. I equally resent my mother for subjecting me to him, and putting her relationship with him before the emotional needs of her children.

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

OP - didn't you say that he is already calling your 4 year old names? Think about how it makes you feel when he calls you things, and he is doing the same to a child, who has no power to remove himself from the situation.

[DonkeysDontRideBicycles]

Are you the first of your group of friends to settle and start a family? There's a leap from being one of a loved up couple and being expected to mature and be a parent and carry a load of responsibility, whether mum or dad.

I think your H feels out of his depth. It's a shitty way to admit to it ie berating you but you are both a reminder of days gone by (youth + laughs + getting by) and of adult life (marriage vows + DCs + mortgage). You are closest and the one he can get away with dumping his frustrations on. Except you carry equal responsibilities and you're his wife not a doormat.

If he doesn't grasp by now it's sink or swim time I think you need to get your ducks in a row. At present he is calling the tune. It's draining and not fair for him to throw a tantrum and swear at you and think ever faithful TNMSock will sit and take it. Feisty is what he needs to remember you were and can be again.

Perhaps packing him a bag and suggesting a trip to your PILs would give him time to reflect.

[JustinBsMum]

I think you both sound as if you have alot of suppressed emotion and anger. OP, you apologise for things which seem quite understandable to me.
Better that you both sit down for a period of uninterrupted time and talk through everything. Why he can't cope/feels trapped, why you are angry and disappointed and what you both want to move forward. I hope he doesn't have a female friend in the wings whom he is hoping to get together with as that will distort his views.
But there seems to be alot of underlying anger and worry and I can't see things improving without bringing it out into the open (in a calm and adult way).

[garlicballs]

Where did this thread get the idea he's a bit stressed, feels trapped or just needs a quiet chat with OP? The man has a history of lying, refuses to discuss 'issues', belittles his wife's feelings, insults and ignores her, sneers at her distress and looks at her in disgust. He is an appalling bully.

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

I know garlic. The poor man is clearly overwhelmed with responsibility and can't possibly be expected to be civil to his wife

This kind of attitude, that men need to be coaxed and persuaded into acceptable behaviour is what leads to situations of domestic abuse, because his feelings are seen as more important.

[garlicballs]

Very true, Ali.

[AnyFucker]

Thank Gawd for you two

[ThatsNotMySock]

Right, quick post while he's in the shower and I'm in the kitchen turning the hot tap on and off at random

Had a brief talk after the kids were in bed. He doesn't seem to have realised that the things he has said have stayed with me. When he calls me an irritating bitch, for eg, he just means I'm an irritating bitch at that precise moment not all the time. (As if that wasn't bad enough!!) Whereas I feel that he feels that way about me all the time. I've said that being insulted, told our marriage was a mistake etc is really damaging to hear and difficult to recover from. He seems genuinely shocked to hear this

It just muddles the whole thing. If he was being angry about it, it would be a very easy decision to leave, but now he seems to feel sorry about it, but even if we can talk, I won't really know if he "gets" it