Partner is at his 1st NA meeting

[Squiglettsmummy2bx]

Just as my title says my partner has gone to his first NA meeting tonight after an ultimatum from me. He has been clean 20 days but is still drinking & he needs more help than I can offer. His drugs of choice were smoking heroin & crack, sniffing coke & alcohol. His family all do drugs. He thinks it is all normal. he has 3 sons he can not see because of drugs & DV. We have a 1 year old. We separated for a while & are together now as he admitted a problem but still hadn't got help. last night he went to the shop & was gone 3 hours, drinking. I left him a quilt on the sofa & went to bed & today told him he gets help or gets out. So he went, after much mud slinging this evening & nonsense. he just rang me & is telling me he's surrounded by zombies etc. I said have you found nothing helpful. He said oh yeah it's people like me, we are soft good people, bend over backwards for others & always bite our tongues over the hurt & that is why we do it. So I see it hasnt helped his finger pointing/blaming others for his addiction. He said he is going to make his phone ring & say he has 4 kids & is needed home so he can leave early. I said no you need to stay to the end as I know they do the serenity prayer, keyrings etc. He started shouting at me so I hung up. Also shows he hasn't told them he can't even see 3 of his kids so has either kept quiet or if I know him done the my mrs is a loon, she sent me here or is going to throw me out. I only do it coz she slept with my brother/mum/dog (I didn't) etc. Dreading his return, he has no key & if he is shouting at me then he can sleep elsewhere.
Not really needing replies just needed to get it out.

[Squiglettsmummy2bx]

Just a little update. Loser still gone & won't be coming back. Heard from him last night after his 2nd meeting & had to laugh. He got up & took his turn, told everyone how he turns to drugs after drinking when I am mean to him & since his dad died. As I now know his drug use predates his dads death by 7 years & predates our relationship by 9 years he is not even telling half of his real story. He loved the attention & even got a chip for 7 days clean. I know he will carry on these meetings as he is desperate for love & attention but has no more desire to stop using & drinking than I do to cutting my own leg off. I feel sad that he thinks so little of my son & I. I feel sad for the good times we did have it's over for good this time & I know that's best but even walking away from a complete & utter Cunt is tough so hand holding & arse kicking are appreciated.

[AnyFucker]

I hope you stick to your word this time and keep this absolute Loser out of your life.

[lowercase]

It seems like he's doing alright, going out drinking and drugging, but his life is going in one direction and that's down.

He can't offer you anything, just more heartbreak, resentment and pain.
If you keep accepting it, he will keep giving it.

Be strong.
Try al anon.

[tribpot]

why should he miss out?

Why indeed. Move on, OP. Don't still let him be a drain on you before he loses his job or becomes ill and dependent. In case you imagine that would force him out of his addiction, it wouldn't.

[deste]

He will drag you down and your child will see this as an example of how to live because he will not know or see any different.

[SolidGoldBrass]

Just cut him right out of your life, he's not worth bothering about. You will soon start feeling better without all the aggravation and worry of a selfish, abusive addict under your feet. Best of luck.

[Squiglettsmummy2bx]

Oh it gets better. When I didn't let him in last night he went to a local pub that has a late licence & turns into a bit of a club so he could have a good drink & dance while I was home looking after DS & crying after my attempt to help him was thrown in my face so nastily but again I am in the wrong as he works 6 days a week & is entitled to have fun. I get to do whatever I want apparently, not sure how as I don't even get to bath, wee or poo without DS butmy life is obviously a barrel of laughs. Why doesn't his idea of fun include us as a family or something we can do? He says he asks me to come but knows I can't because of baby but why should he miss out? CUNT CUNT CUNT CUNT I hopE he chokes on his own vomit

[nkf]

It sounds like you are on the right track - away from him. Keep going.

[Schlock]

Squiglet - the keyring thing. Some groups give out chips (like coins) to celebrate a length of sobriety, very few (IME) give out a 24hr chip usually they give them on a yearly basis. If he'd either had a drink or taken a drug in the previous 24hrs then he wouldn't get one anyway so don't take that as a signal of any sort.

NKF - good idea

[nkf]

I think this thread has divided into two strands. There is the help being offered to OP and the debate on 12 steps. I feel a bit responsible because I asked the question that triggered off the debate. I think it's fairer to the OP to separate the two so the help she has asked for is not diluted. . I would like to hear more about 12 steps so I am going to start a separate thread. Hope to see posters over there.

[Squiglettsmummy2bx]

He appeared this morning with a bundle of leaflets so he went but no keyring so don't think he stayed to the end. Said he is going back & when I said that he can tell them his stress has been removed was saying don't be silly. I told him the only silly thing I did was become entwined with him & DS & I are off to feed the ducks now. He can go rot somewhere. Think he wanted to tag along but the fear of me throwing him in the lake was enough to scare him away

[Snorbs]

He spoke to Alex (the chair, I think) & has concluded that he doesn't have a problem with drink or drugs. His problem is me. I stress him out & upset him & he reaches for drink & drugs rather than lashing out at me & that I need to deal with the way I treat him to stop him drinking & drugging.

That is so much horse-shit. No-one who had any appreciation of the 12-Step approach to dealing with addiction would say anything like that. He's spinning you a line. If he so much as set foot in the NA meeting last night I'll eat my own shoes. He's probably just been in the pub all evening.

On the other hand, you could always take him at his lying cowardly self-centred word. If life with you is so unbearable to him that he has to regularly get off his face with any drugs he can grab hold of, obviously the best thing you can do for him is to leave him. You'll then remove all the stress from his life and he'll magically turn into a clean and sober individual. And if you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you.

[Schlock]

Squiglett, he definitely didn't hear what he told you about you being the problem from anyone at the meeting. The 'chair' is no-one special btw, the chair is just a member who takes that role temporarily & is no-one's boss or expert. It really does sound like he either didn't go to the meeting or he's spinning a line to you about what was said.

Well done for your reaction, I think you're absolutely doing the right thing.

SGB - I honestly don't think an addict trying out a 12 step programme holds any danger whatsoever so long as they follow the normal rules of personal safety & common sense. There's nothing to stop that person from deciding that it's not for them but if it helps then brilliant! I'm not suggesting that not going will lead to their death but it's certainly a step in the right direction of avoiding that whereas doing nothing and continuing in the addictive behaviour may (and with alarming regularity does) lead to it. That's not meant to scaremonger but is the harsh reality of substance abuse. If they decide, with experience, that it is not for them they are already in a good place to discover other sources of help & recovery.

But no, it's not magic and setting foot in a meeting will not necessarily keep them clean or sober.

[Squiglettsmummy2bx]

Thank you all again. He called on his way back from the meeting & told me he had bought a beer when he left the train station. I said 'you didn't gain anything from the meeting then?' & his response was that he had learned a lot. He spoke to Alex (the chair, I think) & has concluded that he doesn't have a problem with drink or drugs. His problem is me. I stress him out & upset him & he reaches for drink & drugs rather than lashing out at me & that I need to deal with the way I treat him to stop him drinking & drugging. My response was what a load of bollocks. I put down the phone & when he knocked at the door ignored him. I then texted him & told him that I would remove the problem, me, from his life so he should be clean very quickly & when he can provide clean drug tests I will arrange supervised contact for him & DS. Seeing as he hasn't had real contact with his other sons for 5 years I won't be holding my breath. I felt very sad & angry last night as I have offered him do much help & support & for him to twist it all on to me was so hurtful but now I just think good riddance to bad rubbish.

[sashh]

Do they not work? I thought they were regarded pretty successful.

Not sure about the UK but in the US long term success is about 3%. That's about the same as someone going it alone.

[mrscynical]

I agree with lowercase. My experience with AA is only via a former and present partner - 8 years and 17 years sober respectively.

Both partners reached rock bottom a long time before I met them and luckily did so whilst not being in any form of relationship and decided to attend as they realised they could not go on as they had been any longer.

To a certain extent I appreciate that attending meetings (3-5 times a week) is the only way they can stay sober so I appreciate that going out/staying in and getting drunk is replaced by having to be out for various evenings at meetings but as far as I (and I am sure they) are concerned that is a small price to pay in order to remain sober. I have only witnessed other recovering alcoholics helping others in the same boat, not seen any 'marketing', not been aware of any religious or cult-like overtones and just been aware of how AA has saved many men and women (and by extension their families and friends) from a sad, desperate, unhappy situation.

My current partner lives some distance from me and I mainly see him on weekends but he sometimes has to go on a Friday or Saturday evening to a meeting. My response when he tries to apologise is "if you weren't attending AA we would not be in a relationship so go and I will be here when you come return." I wouldn't have it any other way and am extremely proud of him.

[lowercase]

I would be intersted to see these studies, and also see how people fare in the long term...a lot of us can stop, it's staying stopped that's the problem.

For me, and many many people I have met A 12 step programme was the ONLY thing that worked.
It is also self supporting so no GP, waiting list, stress on the system.
But you still undermine it!
I expect you don't have an alternative in mind?

How much does your alternative cost?

The 12 steps are not a magical cure either, tbh, it sounds like you don't know what you are talking about.

[SolidGoldBrass]

Schlock: I think it's also dangerous to insist, as some people do, that 12-step 'works' when it absolutely doesn't - seeing it as some kind of magical cure for addiction is frankly daft as well as dangerous. Finding a 12-step programme a load of nauseating unhelpful nonsense doesn't mean that a person is doomed to die of his/her addiction, it means that a different type of rehab/support is more likely to work more effectively (though of course nothing will work until the addict is ready).

BTW there appear to be studies showing that 12-step programmes are actually the least effective way of helping addicts.

[Schlock]

Although I agree with a lot of what SGB said I will say that I think 12 step bashing can be at the least unhelpful and at worst positively dangerous. People will do whatever works for them when they're ready to stop & to put people off fellowships (ie the Anonymous organisations) could be the difference between life & death, not least because they are the best known and most easily accessible programme available.

I have put a lot of thought & research into whether or not the 12 step programme is a cult & even though it often felt that way in my 18months of attending they never sought to alienate me from my loved ones, never demanded money other than what I chose to chuck in the pot (a quid, usually) never chased me down the street & didn't hassle me when I made the decision to stop going beyond a natural concern you might expect from friends. Then there is the issue of whether or not it is brainwashing. I decided that element might have some grounds but quite honestly I needed it because my brain was filthy ! I learned a lot from my time with the fellowship about the nature of addiction & ways that I could live my life in a different way and for that I am very grateful, however, like I said before I no longer attend.

I do a different (secular) programme now based on sobriety being entirely my responsibility, a modern programme based on a tried & tested psychological approach but when I first set foot in a 12 step meeting I was utterly desperate & I don't know what I would have done if someone had told me it was a cult & should be avoided.

Apologies for the derail!

[Hopasholic]

If not being able to see his other 3 kids doesn't make him realise he is an addict, there's not much hope is there? There will of course be an excuse and it won't be his fault because in my experience addicts stay the same mental age they were when they first started using drugs. Unless he wants to stop, you are powerless. The drugs will come first.

[sincitylover]

Thank you sgb you have articulated what I was thinking!
Sorry op for the derailment but thank you for posting this.

I agree that the only way that the addict will stop is if they want to. There is nothing you can do to stop it And the addiction is no reflection on you.

[lowercase]

Thinking of or for him.
Excuse typos.

[lowercase]

12 step programme of AA is not marketed,
It is self supporting, has no management, just trusted servants.
IME 12 step programmes do work, I know hundreds of hopeless cases who have recovered, myself included.
Millions worldwide have recovered.
As has been mentioned, you have to want it, though losing everything, the relationship and another child may help him hit bottom and want recovery.
Whether he listened or not, the idea of recovery is planted in his mind now.
I would start getting on with life as much as you can, not thinking if or for him.
The chapter 'to wives' ( free to view on line through the website Alcoholics Anonymous ) may be able to give you some useful suggestions on how to handle it, and has been said, Al-Anon.
All the best.

[SolidGoldBrass]

12-step works for some addicts, though it is likely that what actually 'works' is that the person is genuinely ready to stop and determined to change. At which point anything would work, whether that's AA, a locked ward or tying a white ribbon round your ankle. There are a lot of problems associated with the 12-step movement and a lot of opposition to it, which is not just from addicts-in-denial. It's completely unscientific and it's basically a cult with all the defects of any cult. It just happens to have good marketing strategies.

Sorry OP, bit of a derailment there. But you are doing the right thing in cutting this man off. There is nothing you can do to 'fix' him, he has to sort himself out, and you are under no obligation to sacrifice yourself or DC to his problems. Whatever sort of rehab or recovery treatment he chooses to engage with is up to him, you need not worry about it, but there is basically no magic-button treatment that will stop him drinking and drugging even though he doesn't want to stop.