Just had a blazing row with df.

[OscarPistoriusBitontheside]

Like the title says I have just had a blazing row with my father.

Ds1 went into say hello and knocked a portable hard drive off a table. Df has
Millions of fucking computers and hard drives and gadgety shit with assorted trailing wires littering the room he spends all his time in. Him and my mum live in a huge house but spend most of their days on computers in one room.

My mum is fab, but constantly apologises for my dad's behaviour, always has, always will. Anyway df balled out ds1 and I let df have it both barrels I'm afraid.

Df is a selfish man, typical baby boomer in all right jack type, who thinks he can tell me where I'm going wrong with life, etc. and him yelling at ds1 was the final straw. He never does anything with ds', the last time he took them on a day out was dec 27th 2010 and that was only ds1 and only because my mum suggested it because ds2 was still tiny and I had noro.

No one ever says "no" to my dad. I'm sorry to say I yelled at him that he'd be lucky if I ever bothered my arse bringing my kids to him again because when they are there he just ignores them anyway.

Ds1 said to me he didn't know what the point of grandad was. He's their only grandad and is too busy with his stupid computers and HIS hobbies to ever give them a minute. I'm really very sad about all this but I know that he'll never change and it reals my heart to think he's missing out on their lives.

My mum said that he's "not a kiddy person", as if that excuses his behaviour somehow.

I don't know what to do or say anymore.

[DistanceCall]

As for OP, keep your children away from your father, not from your mother, and explain to your children that their grandfather is a bit grumpy in general (so that they don't think it's personal, he just doesn't like children). His loss.

[DistanceCall]

I was slapped 3 times in my life by my father, and remember all 3 of them, because of the shock -- it was basically because I had got lost and he was so terrified that he just reacted that way when I turned up.

I can understand that, and I don't think it's really that terrible, because parents are human beings after all. Slapping a child because he accidentally knocks something off a table, however expensive it may be? That's utterly disgusting.

[ToomuchWaternotWine]

Startail, why don't you do us and the thread a favour, go away and take your decorations down like you said. Oh and don't forget to slap the kids if they trip over them.

[Startail]

I never said your DS deserved good slap, I said he was luck not to get one.

Like it or not those with technical hobbies ARE very protective of their "junk" however exasperating the rest of us find it.

As for how I discipline my DDs, I find my occasionally smacked when they were little, sometimes shouted at, hugged a lot DCs, vastly nicer and a lot happier and more self confident than some of their more indulged friends.
They also don't have their poor HT pulling his hair out, sadly DCs from very nice families, who are scared to impose boundaries do.

[flippinada]

Thanks Oscar - your post really touched a nerve - your Dad sounds very similar to mine. I think you did the right thing.

[OscarPistoriusBitontheside]

It's ok Flippin' sometimes these type of threads make you introspective.

[flippinada]

Agree that it's good you felt able to stand up to your Dad.

Mine once told me my DS was a "spoilt brat who needed a good slap". This because DS (then age 3) cried when I left him with my Dad for five minutes while I went to run an errand.

I ripped him a new one after that - I think he didn't know what had got into me as I'm not the argumentative out confrontational type - I'm not exactly sure myself! Funny isn't it how you can find the strength to do for your children what you can't do for yourself.

Just realised I've gone on about me again..apologies, not meaning to turn this into the me, me, me - wanted to offer some sympathy and solidarity.

[pictish]

Startail - stop hogging the limelight with your nonsense. You don't know anything about what happened. The OP is telling you that it was a genuine accident, yet you are determined that the lad deserved a slap...because you were there of course. Listen to what you are being told, don't just make up yopur own version, then use it as an excuse wax lyrical about your dad!

If your kids get slapped for accidents, then you are a crow. Slapping your kids at all is deeply questionable as well...seeing as you don't read like a particularly rational person. Fuck sake.

OP - you are right...your dad is cantankerous swine. Good for you for standing up to him. He sounds like a bully with no respect for the feelings of others.

[flippinada]

People who advocate slapping and yelling at a child for being clumsy and enthusiastic - essentially just being a normal kid - are bullying arseholes.

They remind me of the "outraged of Tunbridge Wells" meme - you know, old "I was battered senseless with an iron bat everyday and it never did me any harm "

I was smacked as a child and it didn't make me hate my parents or anything but it did make me feel angry and humiliated.

[HotDAMNlifeisgood]

Oscar, I actually think you should be congratulated for standing up to your father. It won't change him or make him see the error of his ways and become a better father or grandfather, but for you I think it is significant that you were able to tell him that you find his behaviour unacceptable (because it is).

It's a shame your mother was never able to do that.

Listen to your DC: if they say they don't see the the point of their grandfather, it's because they have a keen understanding that he brings nothing to their lives. He doesn't want to. Best to let them keep company with people - family or not - who will cherish and value them. There are other outdoor spaces than the family farm, too.

Good luck - detaching from parents is a very difficult thing to do.

[Startail]

Much thought and reached a different conclusion.

And know I have a vast number of Christmas decorations to take down.

[Greensleeves]

SirBoobALot - you rock

MN seem to have a particular infestation of child-whacking meat puppets at the moment. This too shall pass.

OP your dad sounds like a nightmare. Some people are just too self-absorbed to deal with children. I would minimise contact between him and your children, spend lots of time outside when there, and invit your mum out/to yours more often.

[WaynettaSlobsLover]

Startail. As a former hc professional, I strongly advise you seek help for your issues. It's not right or normal to advocate 'slapping' a child for such a trivial thing as accidentally knocking a harddrive over. You responded with almost a tone of condescension to the OP. I would bet your childhood is not all you are making it out to be. Not rocket science but its actually possible to bring up children strictly and well behaved without slapping them. You may want to give that a thought.

[cuttingpicassostoenails]

Startail. The only things we know about your family are the things you have told us on this thread.

I'm not surprised at the reactions.

[Startail]

The only "issue" I have with my DF is that he is the most loving, loyal hard working father that I could possibly have wished to have.

In the truest sense of that naff phrase he gave me roots and wings.

A stable loving home I knew would always be on my side and that I'd always be welcome back to and the self confidence to go out into the world and make my own life.

He sacrificed many of his dreams to support us and to be a devoured DH to my Mum.

I've just spent what may well be my last Christmas with him.

I'll thank you not to insult a person you know nothing about.

[SirBoobAlot]

Yes, so boring and predictable for not advocating child abuse. I would rather have limit pushing than a child living in fear of having an accident because they would be hurt for it. Disgusting.

OP I'd put some distance between your dad and yourself / your children. Sounds like there are some major issues going on, but whatever they are, they will have a detrimental effect on all of you.

[colditz]

All you teach a child when you slap them is that the biggest person makes the rules. In this house, the biggest person is going to be my eldest son in two years time, when he's eleven.

Still think slapping is effective discipline? How about when the kid slaps you back and breaks your jaw?

Slapping is the kind of method that inarticulate people use when their kid turns out to be brighter than them.

[Startail]

I knew I'd bring out the anti corporal punishment brigade, you are boring and predictable.

When one of you comes up with a method of discipline that actually works. I'll listen.

The horrific limit pushing I've seen from friends DCs and the stress it causes both parties leaves me wondering if modern methods make anyone happier.

Also, I was cross that the OP seemed to think that her DS could damage stuff of his grandfathers and not be punished. So there was an element of devils advocate

Not because her DS was being silly, but because she has larger issues with her DF

[colditz]

Startail, slapping is not love.

[OscarPistoriusBitontheside]

He didn't bounce in, he walked in and caught it by accident. He is 7. It was a genuine accident, the sort of thing that could happen to all of us.

Thanks for your advice though everyone. Except startail. Really you need to look at your life.

[Startail]

my DF is a very loving grandfather and DH a very loving Dad, but neither of them is likely to react well to anything other than the smallest child bouncing into their workrooms and knocking things over.

A hard disc is expensive and delicate.

That all these computer and other hobby junk collecting men ought to live in less of a mess goes without saying.

However, having known a great many of them over the years, this doesn't happen.

[shallweshop]

Bloody hell startail! That's sad :-( Maybe it is a sign of the times that people are becoming more and more computer obsessed and less interested in real life, people and families. Am signing off immediately lest I become one ...

[flippinada]

I don't mean his lot, I mean his loss! Typing on a phone.

[flippinada]

That sounds quite a miserable post doesn't it?

I've accepted what my Dad is like and I don't feel sad about it any more..that's just who is and he won't change now.

Just wanted to say I understand. I.don't get people who behave like that either but ultimately it's his lot. I also know where your DS is coming from with his "what's the point in grandad" comment. He doesn't need to be punished for that, he's expressing his feelings in the way that children of his age. I remember how crushing it is to be belittled, ignored and knocked back. It's a horrible feeling, at any age.

[flippinada]

Oscar when I read your post I was nodding along. You could be describing my Dad - in fact they sound of an age.

He wasn't an awful father, but he wasn't a good one either. He is very self centred. My stepmum enables his behaviour. My sister and me always say that he likes the concept of children but not the reality of them. He doesn't really have much of a relationship with his grandchildren and tbh I don't think he's much bothered.

I understand where your are coming from, totally.