If you grew up with warring parents who stayed together....

[CogitOCrapNotMoreSprouts]

... how would you say - positively or negatively - it has gone on to affect your life? Do you wish they'd split or are you grateful they stuck it out?

Just that really. We don't have many terms of reference as kids but we can look back from an adult perspective and judge how wise the idea of 'staying together for the kids' actually was.

[MichelleEva]

My parents had been fighting verbally and physically since I was born. Their fighting has done so much damage to me and to my brother. I wish they had divorced but they did not. Many times I wanted to beg my neighbor to adopt me, but airing family problems was a taboo back then, and I did not know where to go to get help for them or for me.

[gobblegobs]

Sorry meant to be fuck you up!

[gobblegobs]

They fuck you your mom and dad....good ole Larkin

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

That's a very good point about the counselling, or lack of. The assumption is that if you're under the same roof with two parents that's the ideal childhood, when it can be anything but. It's a powerful enough assumption that it extends to children of lone parents who feel they have to stick with a miserable two-person relationship in order to give their DCs 'something I never had'.

[MulledWineAndScully]

The way my parents communicate with each other is so f'ed up I don't even know where to start. As a child I was desperate for them to split up and my mum was always saying things like "if it wasn't for you and your brother I'd leave him". What a destructive thing to say to a child!

The kids whose parents were separated at least had something tangible IYKWIM. There's no 'counselling' available for the kid who's parents haven't spoken to each other for 2 weeks and communicate only through the children. I still live in a constant state of anxiety about everything, and when I see them I just can't wait for it to end - I feel like a child again. I live 250 miles away from them and I've got my own DD.

My father childishly sulks for hours / days / weeks on end about some perceived slight. My mother is bitter and twisted about everything. They visited us for new year and had a fall out which meant they didn't speak for several hours. I got that familiar knot in my stomach. Yet DH and I have jokey banter and my father says "awwww, don't fall out" as if we are children. I know it's terrible but I am embarrassed by both of them and I hate all this happening around my DD.

[gobblegobs]

Glad you bumped it cogito!
Was talking to DB about the thread, he mused over our childhood and wondered if they genuinely had no idea the damage that constant parental arguing inflicts on a child. They may actually believe (and the straw poll here alludes to this) they are doing the child a world of good by sticking together....

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

[NiniLegsInTheAir]

Tanks dondon, I'll remember that about my H. And you're free now at least, we can only improve our lot.

It would seem from this thread that there are some people out there who should never have children at all, let alone stay as part of a family unit. Knowing who those people are (and if you yourself is one of them) is the hard part.

[dondon33]

Thanks Nini it was the best thing I'd done in my fucked up life.

You don't need to make definite decisions regarding your H, one day, when the time's right, it can just hit you, you could be ready for it or not but when/if it happens it will eat away at you until you act, When it happened for me I was amazed by the strength and determination I found within myself, the lord only knows where it came from.
Sorry about your sis I understand your concerns for your own dd.

[NiniLegsInTheAir]

Hi dondon. Yes I am still having counselling - through work so it's free but it's only short term. God knows what I'll do when it ends, it's my lifeline. In fact, it was a DV incident in April this year that made me realise I needed to talk to someone professional, and having counselling has opened up this can of worms about my upbringing, much like you describe. I'm unsure about what will happen with my husband in the future, tbh. So glad to hear you got out

Regarding my thoughts on whether or not I think my parents should have stayed together, I honestly don't know. I don't think them being apart while I was growing up would have made any difference - they're both as bad as each other. My youngest sister is a young teenager, and I've had to watch helplessly as she's been dragged through Mum & Dad's divorce/separation/whatever it is. I think she actually might be even more screwed up than my other sister or me. So their being apart hasn't helped her.

It's witnessing this that makes me unsure about leaving my own husband. I'm not convinced DD's life would be any better if we were apart. He hasn't ever turned on her (yet) but at least with me also in the house, I can deflect attempts by him to control her.

[FromEsme]

My parents argued and ignored each other my whole life. Now they just ignore each other for the most part.

I was terrified all the time, thought their arguments were my fault.

I have a personality disorder and am generally terrible at relationships and friendships.

[dondon33]

Nini
Are you still having counselling? It took me a number of years in counselling to be able to make sense of my childhood, my parents and the life I chose for myself (and with who) Ultimately it forced me to realise and accept that I can't change any of it - it's how I chose to deal with it that mattered.
First on my list was to get rid of bastard exH, I'd already stayed with him way too long putting up with his EA, DV and a whole other host of his bastardfulness, (he really knew what he was doing when he met me and for this I'll always hate him, HE, by quite a good few years, was an adult, I wasn't)
Anyway - my point is that without my counsellor there's no way I'd have been brave/strong/confident enough to end it and in all honesty would probably be still with him now, if not dead.

imip
It is cathartic to write it all down
I'm too scared to start, there's so many roads and branches of 'fucked up' that I don't want to visit, just reading these posts has brought back many many memories that I thought had previously been banished.

Hmm! Terms of reference..... I remember being a (very) young new Mum myself and often thinking
' I wonder how dm got my babysis to settle, to sleep, to take untasty medicine, to eat new foods, to use the potty etc...' then it dawning on me.... ' Oh yeah, that's right Dondon, SHE didn't...YOU fucking did it!'
Cleaning pah!!! I can still picture dm looking rather puzzled at why I slid out the cooker one day to clean under and around it (I'd spilt soup) Her remark ' you should have left it no one see's under there anyway' When I told her it would stink and fester, her piece of utter wisdom - 'Ah only for a few days' ((vom))

[NiniLegsInTheAir]

I've read this whole thread with interest but havn't yet posted. Many comments here have me nodding my head and remembering how it was.

My Dad has a history of depression and mental breakdown, a very controlling, angry man. He used to hit me over anything, from as far back as I can remember until I was 16. I left home at 18 to go to uni and only ever came back from the summer. My Mum never protected me or my siblings, she told him not to hit us, but that was it. They were always arguing. Constant belitting comments, about my teeth, hair, you name it. He would regularly do a massive clean up of my room and throw away my possessions, nothing was sacred. I now have a hoarding problem that my family like to tease me about. Mum did nothing to protect me.

My younger sister (Mum's favourite who she always treats better than me) had an argument with my Dad when she was about 19 and they no longer talk. Mum sided with her and their marriage took a turn for the worst.

When I announced I was pregnant, within about 2 weeks Mum 'decided' they were going to get divorced. She rang me when I was shopping to tell me "but we're still happy you're having a baby" and I burst into tears in public. They still havn't sold the family house or initated any divorce proceedings yet although they live apart. I feel it was just for show - to take away any limelight I had for being pregnant.

I actually have a reasonable relationship with my Dad these days - we talk via email, send each other funny pictures etc. We don't tread on each others toes this way and it works. I've made my peace with the fact that he'll never be a Dad who will hug me, tell me he loves me or go out of his way to help me, but I get the feeling he cares.

Mum, on the other hand, I still can't understand. She still plays manipulative games - blames my Dad entirely for the argument with my sister and wants him to make things up with her. My opinion is my sister is not blameless and is very spoilt for someone in her mid-20s. Mum is very angry, hates every job she has ever had, has to find someone to hate but changes her opinion of people (love to hate and back again) at the flip of a switch. I can't get to grips with her. She has never congratulated me for anything I've done, when I got my degree, got married, bought a house, had my DD. When my sister got her degree this year it was like she'd cured cancer. She always complains that her children live far away from her - I've never had the heart to tell her why that is.

I can see that my sister has followed the same path as my Dad - always yelling at her partner, expects him to lie down so she can walk all over him. She expects everyone to do exactly what she says and Mum feeds that. I, on the other hand, have picked a husband very similar to my Dad (who has also hit me), as I don't know how to live my life without someone bossing me around. I met my husband when I was 19 and I have never been free.

Sorry for the epic post. I grew up thinking all of this was normal and its only in the last year (with help from a counsellor) that I've realised it really wasn't. I'm constantly paranoid that I'm messing up my DD's life too.

[smileyforest]

DG....omg how I relate to what you have written. One thing I have done which I do feel proud about now...I have a home which is stress free...my door is open to all....my children are good....2 adults.2 teens....and I have treated them very differently..unconditional love...praise...support....boundaries...I do feel pretty bad and a 'failure' for the two marriages behind me and suffer bouts of 'depression'....At times...I still crave for my Mother to 'love' me...she can my daughter...she delights at throwing that in my face...but my children are wise..and they do know some of the history....
Mum and Dad...profound to have 'stood the ground'....stuck together..no matter what.....drives me nuts and makes me laugh....at what expense? its taken til Im 52...to understand how a good relationship works....now my Mother sees a man treating me well....and is so obviously jealous...but she lets me know in a very nasty way..
I'm always glad for Christmas to be over......just all so bloody false...and nothing I do will ever be right...I long for the day they may realise..their mistakes and say 'SORRY'!!!!! ?????

[imip]

ifyoulike, dondon

It is cathartic to write it all down, though I often think in could keep writing forever! I don't want to get bogged down in it all, dwelling in how shit it was. So many things I can attribute to my upbringing. Stupid things. As a result of our filthy home, I became something of a clean freak. However, since having kids, I've really let my house keeping go. Am frankly shit at it. I guess this is what happens when you have to teach yourself to clean. And teaching yourself the organisational skills with 4 young dds is mind boggling. I have absolutely no terms of reference.

My cousin has an alcoholic df. A 'nice' alcoholic iyswim. His and aunts marriage understandably broke down. My cousin sponsored his df through AA. A responsible, adult way to handle the problem of alcoholism. When one of these cousins graduated to become a nurse, my mum went on about how tough my cousin had had it and how she sent her a huge congratulatory text. I fucking blew my lid at dm. How hard did she think I had it ? she said she felt guilt every day and apologised. the only ever mention of her fuckedupness. I didn't speak to her for months. I was pregnant with dd2 at the time and we she ended up having to come over to help us out with the birth. I also remember when I brought my first flat aged 29, in a really nice trendy area at home (Australia). Busted a gut to save the deposit. My mum told me how lucky I was and how things always seemed to go right for me. Again, I was so cross, fuck luck, it was a deliberate effort not to have the fucked up life that my parents had created for me. I had worked damned hard despite in my working life always feeling nervous, anxious and incompetent. Actually, a little like a fraud.

As others have mentioned, I do think that there is a family history of violence. My mum grew up in a loving family, has it flaws, but nothing that couldn't be dealt with. I think my dad's dad was a bastard, but he was a teetotal. I think perhaps also mental health problems were at play. What I do know is that this cycle stops with me.

Oh dear, see what happens when I dwell....

[Ifyoulike]

*I think a lot of them absolve themselves of any responsibility of having raised an anxious, insecure child by expressing the sacrifices they made in staying together for children's sake.
Let's learn and not do that to our children. *

gobblegobs this is so very, very true. My mother brags to any and all who will hear how she suffered through an unhappy marriage 'for the children', and how glad she is that she tried even if we 'don't appreciate it' (some of my siblings no longer speak to her).

It sets my teeth on edge, but I don't say anything because the web of denial and illusion is just too strong, I think her psyche would literally break if she realised just how much I and my siblings felt her inaction as weak and neglectful parenting. She can't seem to comprehend why any anger at all is directed toward her... after all, she is the one who 'suffered for us!'

Its just so sick and depressing it makes me want to bash my head against the brick wall again and again. Trying to keep the balance between her martyr delusion and my siblings' simmering rage, and every now and again she prods at them, almost as if she wants to make it explode.

I think people in turbulent relationships need to really take a good look at their children and ask themselves if their children are really happy, or are really even the reason for staying (rather than fear of change, finances, social repercussions etc). As one of those children once upon a time , its a horrible thing to have your supposed 'happiness' be held up as the reason for what was in reality keeping you trapped in a situation of torment.

[voddiekeepsmesane]

Stepmother and father should not have been together for any longer than a few months rather than 13 years and having 5 children (+ the 3 dad already had)

Stepmother was 17, dad was 30 when they got together. By the time the marriage ended, 5 children in 7 years , alcoholism, mental issues,physical abuse ( only towards one another though we as children all saw it) infedelity and neglect was the name of the game.

I was 17 (at which time youngest was so neglected by her parents she was calling me mum at 1) I was booted out and told to stop treating the house like a fucking hotel ( I wish)

They have screwed up many children with their selfishness and it still continues till this day, even with all children left and having their own children and a divorce. My father even has a go at my mother and they have been divorced for 35 years !!!

[Lavenderhoney]

Rewriting history does seem to be a trait with some parents like this.
My bf came once ( under a lot of misgiving from me) and said I was so unlike them - and it wasnt like visiting parents, it was like a duty visit to an old couple who ran a boarding house once.
My mum, when I was small and asking where I came from, told me she took a fancy to me in my pram outside the supermarket and took me home. I have been known as the tesco kid all my family life. She did tell me it was a lie as o used to get upset and want to know where my real mummy was, especially after another bout of drunken shouting.

Actually this thread is very upsetting, as I though I had quite successfully erased my life under 16 - clealy not. Oh- and I was wracked with guilt at leaving my dm to deal with my dad, but left anyway. Even as an immature 16 yr old, I knew I was right.

[domesticgodless]

yeah gobble my mother definitely has the rose tints on and constantly congratulates herself on her happy marriage and wonderful grandchildren. She misses out the daughters as they are both depressed with chronic anxiety disorders and one is pretty consistently suicidal (me). But heck you can't do everything right eh :D

[domesticgodless]

I just had a horrible memory of my mum taunting me one time about how fat I was when I was a teenager about to get an eating disorder. She would do it in this stupid singsong voice like a school bully. My father 'stood up' for me by saying with an indulgent smile 'now don't be provocative dear' . It was all just so disgusting, a horrible way to bring up children and I still can't forgive him. I have more respect for her as she got help and after 25 years of therapy is a bit improved.

He should have left her, took us with him and protected us from their sick relationship. At very least he could have stood up to her, told her to stop her abuse and that he wouldn't take it any more. I don't forgive him for that.

[gobblegobs]

Cathartic it is indeed.
Wonder how many of them realise the damage they do to the children as many posters on this thread have mentioned how their parents put on Rose tinted glasses and describe their childhoods as 'happy' or as my parents put it' our children never wanted for anything'.
I think a lot of them absolve themselves of any responsibility of having raised an anxious, insecure child by expressing the sacrifices they made in staying together for children's sake.

Let's learn and not do that to our children.

[domesticgodless]

Thank you for this thread from the bottom of my heart. I really mean it.

I remember telling a doctor once that everyone in my family was depressed and him laughing in my face (he was a real wanker). It was totally true. My mother ruled the household with hysteria, pointless anxiety and verbal attacks. My father enabled her by plodding around like Lurch from the Addams family serving her drinks and flinching when she abused him, which was often.

Some people are natural slaves and enablers. They take pride in serving an abuser and protesting their love constantly. It used to make me sick to hear my dad talking about what an adoring devoted husband he was and everyone who met my mum and dad telling me what a 'lovely couple' they were and how much my father must love her. I used to pray he'd just stand up to her one time, tell her to stop being such a miserable cow and making us all miserable. But he wanted to keep her a child so he could fulfil whatever sick role he had drawn up for himself.

I was her favourite target as the eldest child and he never stood up to her once. Rather he would turn on me because I wasn't enabling her the way he was.

I remember one Christmas when my sister and I were both adults, our mother threw some stupid strop and walked out of the house. He stayed and we both tackled him about why he allowed her to behave like this and always had. You should have seen his face. Outrage at us for questioningg She Who Must Be Enabled alongside fear and shame because he knew we were too old to take the crap any more.

They remain a 'devoted' couple but radiate anxiety and depression. I'm staying with them now and the atmosphere is awful. As for me I think I became something of an abuser like her- having married a 'safe' man I didn't really love and feeling deeply angry and frustrated. I've been diagnosed since with bipolar disorder which is partly ggenetic I'm sure but partly also to do with growing up in that awful, deadening, abusive atmosphere where bizarre behaviour was rewarded with devotion and feelings were denied and twisted all the time.

Having read this thread I realise leaving my unloving relationship was the right thing to do and my sons will benefit from it. Although I miss the stability and my ex's friendship and I've been very depressed since the split feeling I should not have had a family as I just spoilt their lives. I've always told them the truth as far as I can about why we split and as they get older I will be more honest with them. I told them I still liked daddy but we were fighting too much and no one wants to fight so we decided to be friends instead. Not the whole truth of course :/

[OnaPromise]

There are some sad past histories on this thread. I hope people at least feel a bit of catharsis by writing it down.

[OnaPromise]

Mine didn't fight too much but as others have described there was a constant, bleak, tension in the house. It was so depressing. In fact everyone probably was depressed, including myself I now realise.

They did it for what they thought were the right reasons, but I've always thought that everyone would have been much happier if they'd split earlier.

I, too, legged it as soon as I could, but luckily for me I had the option of leaving for uni.

My mum left soon after but died only a couple of years later - something I felt sad and guilty about for years because she was just starting to enjoy herself again.

I think it made me into an anxious child, and more of an anxious adult than i could have been. Yes, and desperate to create an affectionate relationship, that rings very true.

[caramal]

My parents were together for 17 years.. 5 of those was arguments, tension, bickering and making us kids choose sides..awful. Best thing they did was divorce.

IMO staying together for the kids sake when the love is gone/can't stand the sight of one another is never going to work