DP and new colleague (long, sorry!)

[needabitofperspective]

I feel threatened by DP's new colleague. I don't think anything is going on between them (yet or possibly ever - but who knows) but they click and it's shining a light on the way we don't in some areas. I feel very uncomfortable.

DP and I work at the same company, but in different departments on different sites. He's making friends with this new colleague. She works in his department. He doesn't have any management responsibilities towards her, they wouldn't usually work together, but he's senior to her and they are currently working together, just the two of them, on a specific creative project.

She's young, pretty. But the most important thing is that DP is really, really into his music, and likes some pretty obscure stuff. New colleague is also really into music and likes the same kind of obscure shit he does. Which even I have to admit is pretty amazing for her age - to have even heard of it let alone be really into it. He is amazed to have found a kindred spirit (my words) in such a young person.

He's being very open about making friends with her, but it's making me very uncomfortable, I'm writing this to help me work out some perspective.

New colleague is having a hard time at the moment. She is new to the town and is finding it difficult to make friends. She contacted DP last night because they were both on Facebook and she felt she needed to chat to someone she could trust. She got very drunk at a work do and slept with one of their other colleagues (he's her age). Now some of the bitchy women in the department are gossiping about her and making snide comments in her presense. She regrets it, feels crap and last night felt like quitting. (Not sure how serious the quitting was in reality, could just be how she felt at that moment).

DP was sending her music to cheer her up, which was working. He was being totally open about how he was doing this. However he was chatting to her for over 2 hours, on and off. He stayed up an hour after I went to bed to chat to her.

It's partly that I feel threatened by the connection they have over music. It's so important to DP, and it's not a passion I share. I have music I like, but I'm not a muso like he is. I know he'd love it if I could share this passion (most of his exes have) and I feel like it's a massive part of his life I'm not part of. It's not just that though, although I adore him and we get on, I often worry that we don't really click. He's not one to go on about his feelings. I on the other hand am happiest when I have lots of affection and am told often that I'm loved! He does things to demonstrate his love for me, but I can't help worrying there's something missing sometimes. But then I think it's just the way he is (quite a closed book) and that it's improving over time.

I knew DP would offer to meet with her, and so I suggested that he invites her round if she's having a hard time. We've not met, although we've had contact via email for work stuff. I would have suggested this whichever of his friends was having a hard time. DP (and myself) are also the type of people others often come to for advice (and a drink!) and we often have waifs and strays at ours (from work and outside). However I must admit my motivation here was to meet her so I'm a real person to her, also my DD and my pregnant bump! Just in case there's something brewing. Is this sensible or am I stepping into dangerous territory here?

Some background - we work in the creative industries and it's not unusual for our job to spill over into our private life. DP is a very friendly person, so am I. We both have many, many friends of the opposite sex, and it's not unusual for us to make new friends of the opposite sex. I just feel threatened by this one.

I did read their chat. There was no flirting on her side but there was on his IMO. Could be interpreted as friendliness, but made me uneasy. It was her who mentioned me (he mentioned work, she said "that reminds me, I need so send to ") which I think is a good sign as far as she is concerned. He invited her to come round for a drink and a chat tonight and said we've got a spare bed. This is totally within character, it's how DP would treat any of his friends. However DD and I are off to my parents to sort some stuff out today and I'd half considered staying over. DP doesn't know if I'm going to stay or not, I hadn't mentioned whether I was, but he must have known it was a possibility. This makes me very uncomfortable. But am I just being paranoid?
She declined (as on medication, can't drink atm) but said she'd like to come another time. He later invited her to come round for food, and mentioned me then. I think this bit might have been when I said "why not invite her round".

DP is a lovely, warm hearted person, who is extraordinarily nice to people. He's a great friend and very caring. We often have people come over for a drink, male and female. I don't want to go all green eyed monster at him, if he's just being his usual lovely self! But I know that if we weren't together, he'd be really into her.

I do think I need to think about what it is in our relationship that's making me feel so insecure.

Sorry for the essay - thanks for reading!

I'd appreciate any thoughts on the situation. I need ot get some perspective!

[AnAirOfHopeForSnow]

email him your concerns and see what he comes back with.

You can get everything you want put down without interuption and you can think clearly to word the email so you get across what is important to you.

Im no good at talking so i bulletpoint my issues.

[AvonCallingBarksdale]

Hi, OP. First, you sound really lovely. But, and I don't want to scare you off/upset you, your DP sounds a whole lot less than lovely to this outsider

• He can chat to a younger, vulnerable colleague for 2 hours on FB, but he can't find a window to chat to his partner and mother of his children for potentially 2 weeks??!
  
• Me and DH used to be really into our music - gigs, bands and all that goes with it. Now, though, our priorities are different - we still enjoy all that, but have 2 DC and life is diferent. You mention that you and DP are late 30s, well, IMHO, that's a bit old for him to be obsessing over obscure bands with someone in their early 20s.
  

• Their FB chat was totally inappropriate, comments about the appearance of an attractive early 20s and comparing interests with her and you is just not on.
  

I don't think she's a threat necessarily - I think DP is the problem here, which will be harder for you to accept than if it was the colleague that was the issue.

[AvonCallingBarksdale]

By this outsider, I mean me, not your DPs colleague, just to be clear!"

[Offred]

No communication in a relationship only works if only one person is considered you see, my dh made that one person me, he seems to be making that one person you. I mean come on you have to ask him when he can schedule you in for a relationship talk... How stifling that is...

[StillSquiffy]

If it helps give you something to kick off your discussions tonight, I can tell you that - as an HR professional - I would view the chat messaging you quoted as being an indicator of (as opposed to direct evidence of) sexual harassment on his part. Especially given the age gap between them. If there were three or four messages in a similar vein (where the woman is clearly not encouraging it herself) it would amount to enough to warrant investigation should she complain. Just the one comment I would consider to be a bit silly on his part, but I would certainly have an informal word with him if she mentioned it to me (it would be at a low level though because I consider fb and the like to be something that both parties choose to engage in, whereas this would be far more serious if part of general work email traffic).

FWIW the relationship being established here is not really a healthy one, especially if she is leaning on him as a result of work issues. She may start looking at him to protect her at work and he could interpret this in a whole bunch of inappropriate ways. I don't think either of them are particularly 'at fault', but neither of them have thought through where their actions are going. You were spot on in your sense of unease here.

[Charbon]

The picture I am getting is of a man whose ego has never matured, so he needs 'strokes' from everyone to keep him going. This is also why he can't bear to be in the wrong. He also sounds quite self-absorbed and selfish which is why even when he's in the wrong and can't escape that, he manages to turn the drama back onto himself by self-flagellating, instead of concentrating on the upset he caused others by the wrong.

I don't think you see either you or your partner very realistically OP and this is part of the problem.

I get the sense that you regard his egotism, self-absorption and selfishness as friendliness, a cross borne by a creative genius and introspection that is typical of many men. I think you still see yourself as the cool, laid-back girlfriend who isn't too bothered about security and having boundaries around friendships that threaten your relationship.

In a nutshell, you've probably changed and matured since having children - and he hasn't - but you're both still stuck in these old scripts.

The best way of dealing with this would be to express your concerns about this friendship, but to recognise that this is actually just a symptom of his overall character. Until he recognises why he feels the need for these strokes, there will be a succession of younger, adoring women being introduced as props over the years. This particular young friend is only significant because it's obvious he's fishing for an ego boost and some good feelings about being a male rescuer. But she could be anybody and there will be more like her.

I'd be asking questions about what he's getting out of this, because his intentions are in no way altruistic. I'd also be reversing this and asking him how he would feel if you were devoting this much time to a new male colleague who shared a passion with you for something that left him cold - and suggested he came round when your partner was going to be elsewhere with the children.

The problem is that getting him to see all this pre-supposes an emotional maturity that he is evidently lacking - and I think that's the core problem here. Because of that, I think any talks will be stonewalled and he'll carry on with a new obsession he doesn't want to give up.

So ultimately you can only do your bit, express yourself honestly and then make some decisions if he ignores you. You don't have to be in a relationship with someone who is this emotionally immature. They make very bad parents especially when children become older. You can decide that you want a different relationship with a more emotionally intelligent man.

[needabitofperspective]

Offred. The problems with this kind of thread is that it's a snapshot of a relationship and readers can't get the whole picture. I haven't written about the good things as that's not what's on my mind right now! But yes, he does treat me well.

[needabitofperspective]

Chandon "I get the sense that you regard his egotism, self-absorption and selfishness as friendliness, a cross borne by a creative genius and introspection that is typical of many men."

Again it's hard to get a picture of a person from one thread that's focusing on the stuff that's not working! But I don't recognise the picture you're paining. I don't see him as some kind of creative genius and excuse bad behaviour on that basis! I know the type you're talking about, and that's not DP, not at all.

I honestly can't see him getting worried about me spending time with a young male colleague. Someone upthread asked if that's because he trusts me implicitly or because he doesn't see me as being sexually attracted to others. I'm still thinking about that one, I don't know.

[needabitofperspective]

Anyway ... I feel I'm getting sidetracked here! I've obviously not done a very good job of painting an accurate picture of DP if you all think he's a shithead!

He isn't, really, honest!

It seems a bit silly for me to carry on arguing this though, as then the thread turns into me defending DP!

[AThingInYourLife]

"or because he doesn't see me as being sexually attracted to others."

Or, worse, because he doesn't see you as sexually attractive to others.

[needabitofperspective]

OK, we had a bit of a chat last night.

I didn't bring up the colleague thing. I talked with one of my best friends (also a long standing friend of DP) before I spoke to DP, and I realised I don't want to bring up the friendship with the colleague, not just yet anyway. At the moment it's all out in the open, and I don't want to risk driving it underground.

I think I do want meet her. It's important to me that I'm a real person to her. Time is an issue, I can't imagine a dinner invite happening very soon. I may be able to meet her at work sometime soon anyway. I appreciate the real issue is with DP, not the colleague (as far as I can make out anyway), but this is something I want to do anyway. DP and I have had a hard time recently, and I think some nipping in the bud can't hurt.

We didn't chat directly about all the things I wanted to, but it was a good start. We talked about having to make sure we make time for each other, particularly as this is going to be such a busy time these next few months. I promised to put the computer down occasionally! (Joking aside, this is an issue, I know it). I need to make time for DP. If he did have an affair now, I would feel I was partly responsible for studiously ignoring him so much recently! That has to change, I know it.

It was nice. I felt listened to, and that we're connecting. I didn't get the sense that DP was withdrawing from our relationship, not at all. We talked about our marriage plans at one point which was nice too.

The "can't talk for 2 weeks" thing disappeared. I think I caught DP at a bad time when he said that - perhaps he was stressing about how much he has to do when that came out. In reality it's not an issue.

I think the most important thing I'm getting from this is that we've both had a difficult time recently, and we need to actually work at helping each other through it. We haven't been.

And, I've got a date :) A friend has agreed to babysit and we're going to go out one night next week.

The colleague thing - well, I'll keep an eye on it. I will mention it to DP if it seems to be escalating.

[needabitofperspective]

AThing, I do think he knows I'm sexually attractive to others!

[kerstina]

What I don't understand is why you can't just come out and say it -that he is making you feel insecure. Why do you need to "book" an appointment. By doing this you will be making yourself more anxious about bringing it up!
In one way your relationship sounds very formal and proper that you have to have proper discussions about stuff while on the other hand very liberal and relaxed chatting late at night on the internet and such like.
Just tell him! If he is as 'nice' as you make out he will back right off with this women and see the error of his ways. You are not being paranoid trust your gut instinct. Good luck I think he will be fine. If he is not then its time to admit you have a real problem.

[needabitofperspective]

The reason I "booked an appointment" was purely because I find it hard to bring this kind of stuff up (always have in previous relationships, that's to do with me, not DP).

I said "I need to make a time to talk" because then it makes me do it IYSWIM. I know if I just wait for the "right time" I'll put it off.

[AThingInYourLife]

Glad your chat went well :)

When are you getting married? I can't imagine how we would have found the time and inclination to do it once children had arrived, but I can highly recommend it.

Enjoy your date.

I'm going to take a leaf out of your "close the computer" book. It's so easy to be beside each other not interacting.

[FlipFlippingFlippers]

At the risk of being flamed I was the OW in this almost exact situation. I was very young (no excuse I know!) and now I'm a mother myself I know for a fact I would never get into a situation like that again.

You need to put a stop to their relationship. If he values your relationship he will agree. I was introduced to his exdp and their son. It didn't stop us falling in love, it just made the eventual split much harder on all involved. I was invited to stay overnight frequently. Although nothing happened until after he left her I know I was a catalyst.

Our relationship was inappropriate and should never have continued. For what its worth we are very happily married with 3dc's and been together 10 years. It was never just a cheap thrill!

I still feel guilty (even though everyone has moved on) and even tho neither of us were ever out to have an affair or cheat we just fell in love.

We bonded over shared interests and he confided in me about their relationship problems. It was allowed to continue (she encouraged our friendship) and when he started investing more time in me than his family it caused us to have an even stronger bond due to their arguments.

Ultimately in my situation she didn't want to fight for the relationship and encouraged us to spend time together "to get him out the way"- her words.

It sounds different for you though so stop this before it develops into strong feelings. Sorry for such a long post but I've been there. Things can happen quickly.

Also if you find it hard to talk can you show him this thread? That way it's not just made out that 'its in your head' or that you're jealous. I hope you can resolve this.

[needabitofperspective]

Thanks for posting, Flippers, I appreciate your perspective.
Some food for thought there ...

[FlipFlippingFlippers]

I don't want to worry you!

Sometimes it goes deeper than just sexual attraction tho. If they find it easy to chat for 2 hours with barely any flirting then it's a very good friendship developing. The fact that he is helping her with personal problems also indicates an emotional bond. If they also happen to find each other attractive then that's a bad combination.

[B1ueberryMuff1n]

You sound very mature and calm in the way you handled things. So many posters waste their energy hating 'the competition'. I think you went about things in a good way here.

[blueshoes]

OP, well done for tackling things in a measured way rather than go in with guns blazing.

But this situation raises many red flags for me that perhaps even your dh (believing all you say about him) is not aware of himself.

I am not the jealous kind. I have an aupair at home who is very attractive. My dh's secretary at work is a hottie. He meets up with female colleagues, friends etc without me.

But this is one situation where I will play the trump card. I would nip this in the bud asap. As flip says (case on point), if he values your relationship, he will agree. If she has no claws on him, she will see the sense too.

I will leave you to phrase it the way you think best, but don't bottle out of this one. You must overcome your natural aversion to these conversations and get your message across. If anything, their reaction will be very telling.

[blueshoes]

BTW, inviting a colleague of the opposite sex to stay overnight in one's house is deeply inappropriate and sends out all the wrong signals.

You might think this is all creative industry 60s free love casual, but it is not, and most definitely if you and the children are not in the house.

If you don't tell your dh that is a no-no, there will be times when you might perhaps take the children to go to stay with your family, or be out of the house, and an impromptu arrangement happens between your dh and her. One thing leads to another ... it does not take a genius.

If I wanted to have an affair, my spouse allowing me to invite a male colleague overnight without him around is practically a green card. Why make it so easy for them?

[DonkeysDontRideBicycles]

Personally I wouldn't show my OH a thread about them if it's been a useful place to let off steam. Back to the old rl vs mumsnet conflict!

OP glad you've been able to talk to your DP fwiw I thought you took everyone's comments on the chin and I really hope you get through this okay, good luck.

[needabitofperspective]

Athing, no idea when we're getting married! We definitely don't have the energy for arranging a wedding any time soon. But we talked a bit about what a wedding means to us. It was nice.

B1ueberryMuff1n Thanks! :)

Flippers, I am worried. Hopefully it'll blow over. He was flirting. Hopefully it was a one-off, and nothing in it really. But I'm not confident that that's the case. I just don't know. Time will tell I guess.

I don't want to have to fight for him. I want him to be with me because he wants to.

[needabitofperspective]

blueshoes that's a difficult one. You see the only reason I know he invited her over is because I read their FB chat. That conversation is out of bounds to talk about unless I admit snooping and I'm not keen on admitting that just now!

[needabitofperspective]

DonkeysDontRideBicycles I don't think I'll show him this thread as I worry he might feel weird that I've written so much personal stuff about our relationship in a public place. I'm confident we can't be recognised in RL though, I've been careful not to include details which are unusual to us IYSWIM.

I do think I might have a go at writing my feelings down for him to read however.