What IS it with mil/dil relationships?

[bibbitybobbitybloodyaxe]

Why are they so tricky?

Why is mumsnet overrun (tainted even) with negative threads about mils?

[diddl]

A big problem for me was that ILs never really saw their son as an adult who they would treat/converse with on their level.

Conversations always went back to childhood/primary school friends-rarely the here & now.

Really odd.

I´m sure that I´m still my parents "little girl"-being 5ft doesn´t help-but I´m married with too children-pretty obviously an adult!

[Blueberties]

I think "dil"s are more likely to dance around the relationship because they're newer to the whole "building a family" dynamic, they want to please, they want the two-three families to all get along together, they have a generally idealistic view of how things are going to work out (obviously a generalisation) and they want things to work out well. Whereas an older woman by now knows what she wants, how to do things, how she does things, and she knows the things up with which she will not put. And after all that time, all those years and experiences under her belt, it's now part of her/our job to take a back seat, and that's not comfortable for many people.

I know I'll be in this position and I've already put my husband on warning to let me know if I'm being over-bearing or interfering. I imagine I'll just be so happy that my children have found partners to make them happy that I will be happy to take that back seat. But that's my imagination at the moment - I have no idea if I'll have the strength to see myself "from outside myself", and I'm a pragmatic person, so I'm going to prepare my husband and children to give me a quiet word if I start undermining my dils/sils in the damaging way that I, and my sils, and my sister, were and are undermined.

[GloriaSmud]

What I find odd is a lot of MILs seem to think that DILs have "stolen" their son away

This is exactly how my MIL behaved. FIL not only taught my MIL that the world should revolve around him/them but also taught her that everyone who marries into the family is a threat to their happiness. Once you realise that this type of IL has a totally different way of viewing family, that you begin to 'get' the way they think. These are people who don't see their adult offspring marrying as a sign of life moving on, being pleased that their children are happy etc, as normal families do, with these ILs, their children's partners are seen as a threat. What my DH was to his parents was the provider of their happiness and taxi service; he had a 'use' to them that made them happy and he wasn't seen as a person in his own right. They thought that because they were happy, then he was happy too and he'd want to do that for ever more. It didn't figure in their minds that he might want more in life and that he might want to do that 'grown up' thing of getting married. Once they realised that they were going to have to tolerate me, they 'trained' him through their tantrums, that they should come first and to be very afraid of upsetting them, no matter what the affect on our family (DH, me and DDs.)

As an aside to this MIL/DIL thread, I learnt several years ago that it isn't just me that the ILs haven't got on with. My MIL had a sister and it's often been said that her and MIL (and then FIL) were very close. This sister used to drive the ILs around as well and when she got married a few years after the ILs did, they say they didn't get on with him because (in their words), "he was a weird Irish bloke." And when DH's sister got married (several years before I came along), it's said that FIL took 8 years to "get used" to BIL being there! So I guess the signs of what DH's parents were going to be like, were there long before I came along. Add to that, that the ILs have no friends or hobbies and even though they live in the same town as their other relatives, they never see them, it all kind of adds up to a weird way of thinking when it comes to family and to life in general.

[schroeder]

You would think my pil would have been glad to be rid of dh, he was still living at home, having his washing done and his dinners cooked at 25 [hshock]

[diddl]

What I find odd is a lot of MILs seem to think that DILs have "stolen" their son away.

I would class my IL in this tbh.

But when I met my husband, he already had his own house & lived away.

He mostly saw them once a week.

That didn´t changed when we met.

My parents were happy that I was happy & just saw us as a couple-even though when we married I moved away & therefore saw less of them.

[schroeder]

My pils nearly always phone when they know I'll be at work. If I do ever answer the phone I always get 'is mrshroeder there?' not even 'hello how are you?' first [hhmm]. We've been married 14 years!

[hugglymugly]

I think there obviously is a different dynamic between a woman and her ILs, especially her MIL, as contrasted with the dynamic between a woman and her parents, especially her DM. (And there's also a different dynamic if the genders are reversed.) There's two different families who quite probably do things differently, especially in terms of family interactions and behaviour. It can sometimes be quite tricky for the "newcomer" to figure out what the "rules" are because they haven't grown up with them. That can lead to stressful situations, especially around the subjects of the wedding and the raising of children.

Most people kind of instinctively understand that and make the necessary allowances and adjustments to smooth the change to the family dynamics. Some don't or can't or won't. Although it's more about the personality of the intransigent person, the situation is often more acute when it's either the MIL or the DIL because of the perceived and actual role those two women have in determining how their respective family dynamic works (apologies if I've stepped on any toes for such a simplistic description).

Labels don't make a person - personality does. But there are people who by virtue of their personality can be difficult to deal with. Those people can have specific labels in terms of their connections with other people. "MIL" and "DIL" are two, and those are shorthand ways of describing two people whose relationship can be the most challenging.

But I don't see that there's an over-emphasis on the MIL/DIL relationship here on Mumsnet. I see people writing about what they're dealing with in terms of difficult family situations. Sometimes the label is "MIL" and sometimes it isn't.

My MIL and I did at times do a delicate dance around our relationship, especially when the DC/DGC came along, but we managed that very successfully. My "D"M and I - that was different. I've gained a lot of understanding and comfort from reading the Stately Homes threads.

[diddl]

I don´t get on with mine-but we manage to be civil.

We have nothing in common.

When I was pregnant she said something about being "2nd best GM".

When I offered her the chance to come over every week-as my parents did-she didn´t take it as she didn´t want a day with me, her only GC, but not her son.

She has just phoned, & when I answered, she said, as she always does when I answer, "Oh, hello Diddl..." in her surprised "why are you answering when you know it´s me calling to talk to my son" voice.

[ToxicMoxie]

I'll give you a new perspective: my mother is a TERRIBLE MIL. I have four brothers, and she actively hates anyone they date. Two of my brothers are married, and my DM is just so mean to my SILs, it's embarrassing. I don't really understand it at all. She is just super jealous of them having her DS's attention and all. It's take about 20 years for her to be polite and not fake friendly to my SIL who's been in the family longest. My other brother, who lived with his wife for a while before marrying this year, yeah my dm won't even go visit them, but did go to the wedding.

I see her doing it, being mean and snarky and making horrible little digs at them. Now, granted she can be that way towards my sister and I was well, but we've had our entire lives to learn to expect it, deal with it and ignore it. My brother, the one whose been married longest, gets wildly mad at my mom when she's such a snot, but she is unrepentant. Nothing my SILs do will ever be enough. It's pathetic, and all I can do is try to deflect her when she's on a catty little rampage.

So on behalf of daughters of crazy MILs, I apologize!

[GloriaSmud]

My MIL brought up my husband to be everything FIL isn?t, almost a ?2nd husband? for her. DH got to 27 years old and had never had a girlfriend when we met. He spent his weekends driving his parents everywhere and having them to stay at his house. I guess it?s not surprising that when we told the ILs we were getting engaged (in 1995) and married (1996), it was met with stony silence followed by a tantrum a few days later. As a naïve 21 year old, I wasn?t used to adults that threw tantrums to get their own way and went along with what DH wanted and afterwards, acted as if nothing had happened. We spent the next 12 years walking on eggshells around them. Things would happen like we'd visit them and in a phone call a few days later, MIL would b!tch to DH about how I?d slighted them; things I?d said, not said, things I?d done or not done. I bent over backwards for them, trying to make them happy and hoping that they?d accept me. All I had back though was abuse (both over the phone and to my face), been ignored when we visited (MIL would manipulate it so that I?d end up sitting by myself for hours so that she could have ?alone time? with her Son), been ignored when they visited us and when it came to taking photos. I put up with it all and swept it ?under the rug?. MIL, after giving me abuse over the phone, would say at the end of the conversation, ?Let?s wipe the slate clean and be friends; do it for 'DH?s name',? and I bloody well did, for 12 years!

Well all those years of her treatment of me and ?D?H?s lack of spine is biting back. In 2006, during a row about his parents (and we?ve only ever had blazing rows about his parents behavior), he told me, ?Husbands and wives don?t stick up for each other if it's going to upset family.? That was it; I quit. I haven?t visited the ILs since and will never visit them again. DH visits when he likes. The ironic thing about this is that MIL always accused me of trying to split up the family and stopping DH from ringing/visiting, and now she?s got what she always wanted and gets to see him alone. When the ILs visit us, after years of me doing the hard work, it?s now DH?s job to feed them and keep them happy. I go out and barely tolerate them being there.

But all those years of treating me like she has is now biting back. Last year it was the ILs 50th Wedding Anniversary and the ILs wanted to go out for a special meal. The only people that shared the day with them were SIL, her husband and DH. DDs (the only grandchildren the ILs have) and I weren?t there. Another thing that?s happened is that a few weeks ago, MIL fell, broke her arm and has had it in a sling. DH went off and visited but DDs and I didn?t. If she?d been a normal MIL, we would have been there like a shot.

As for my DDs, DD1 (12 years old) who has seen the rows and the atmosphere that surrounds the ILs visits, hates MIL and doesn?t even call her ?grandma.? She also watched last year as everyone else in the family got nice Christmas presents and I got given a badly wrapped, smelly shower puff. That's what MIL thought of me as the mother of her only GC and her Son's wife and from DD1's point of view, it doesn't make you feel very loving towards a grandparent who treats your Mum like that. For DDs 2 and 3 (8 and 5), they don?t know who the ILs are; they?re just people who turn up once a year, just after Christmas and hand over a couple of presents.

As far as I?m concerned, I've learnt to detach from it all; it no longer bothers me and it's actually become a bit of a laugh, seeing MIL trying to be nasty to me and at the same time, making sure my DH doesn't notice (her biggest fear is that her Son gets angry at her.) I've often used the expression, ?you reap what you sow" when it comes to my ILs and I feel my MIL's getting exactly the old age she deserves.

[ledkr]

I dont think there should be more challenging of mil probs on here unless the op asks for it or is being ridiculous.
My mil problems are well known on here and its only by being able to post on here a nd get some grewat advice and also sound off without having a go at dh or pils,that i am now on the way to actually repairing our relationship.
As for why i think its a few things.
If your mil happens to be someone who you would normally get along with,has a similar personality and outlook then its perfect.
If you are poles apart and differ hugely on opinions then its going to be tough.
Add to that having to share a family with them,sometimes your or their home-as many families live away-and then also having to share something quite intimate and personal such as pregnancy,birth and childcare then clashes are going to happen.
You are not friends with everyone you meet in life and the same is true of in laws.
I am a mil as well as a dil and my dil and i are very similar,have the same sense of humour both like a drink and a good cackle.We both studied preforming arts so have that in common and like fashion and music.We get on well.
My mil is very formal,judgey and stern.I am always on edge iyswim.They dont approve of drinking,smoking or swearing and seem devoid of a sense of humour.Throw into the mix the distance apart so that every visit is extended and intense and the problems begin. Add to that the fact that they do exactly what they want disregarding any reasonable requests from us and it can only get worse.
It has been sheer determination and love for dh that has kept me ploughing on,and the ability to be able to share on mn as well.
I agree some people are just plain awkward but untill you have had real mil issues you cant really make a judgement on people who do.

[bemybebe]

I have an awesome MIL. She is feisty, she is fair and she is the best MIL I could have! She had four dc when her h divorced her (sahm) with very little financial support, so she went to the uni to get qualifications, get a job and provide for the family. She is 82 (she had dh v late) and I love her to bits!

[Blueberties]

In fact I can't imagine how tactless it would be to say that requests for advice on - say - domestic abuse "taint" mn, because most people don't experience it. Or any of the other problems women experience "tainting" mn.

[Blueberties]

I also believe the problems start and end with my MIL. It must be very hard for a "normal" MIL to start to take a back seat, which they inevitably have to, but when they are quite controlling by nature, it seems to send some into quite unreasonable behaviour .

[sayithowitis]

MrsCambellBlack, I am pleased that you have such a good relationship with your MIL and I agree that it is depressing to read some of the comments regarding MILs. I am a firm believer that marriage is as much about the joining of families as it is about the relationship between the bride and grrom. But sometimes the MIL is the one who refuses to acknowledge that the new wife is now a part of her family. And occasionally, that extends to any children the couple may have.

I have tried over the years to include my MIL in our lives. But almost without exception, she has refused all attempts to become involved with us. We had to beg her to spend time with DC1 as a baby/toddler. It is not because she doesn't like babies - she couldn't stay away from her other GC. We have invited her to every nativity, sports day, prize giving etc event at school and she has never once wanted to come. Again, she has attended the same type of events for all her other GC, so it is not that she doesn't enjoy that type of thing. Offers to help out when she has been unwell are refused but she will then get on the phone to her other DILs and ask them to do what she has just told me she doesn't need/want me to do. I have invited her for coffee/shopping and only on one occasion has she ever accepted the invite. On that occasion we spent ages buying Christmas presents for the other GC. I saw a couple of (small) things that would have been suitable for my DCs and showed them to her. She told me she had already sorted their gifts. Fair enough. But on when she gave the Dcs their gifts it turned out to be a cheque in a card. Not exactly guaranteed to send 6 and 4 year old children into raptures of delight! She then told me and DH she had had to 'resort to a cheque because we hadn't given her any ideas and she then had run out of time'!

I genuinely do not know why she has such a dislike of me. I have never tried to cause her any upset, never been rude to her, and have never tried to keep DH from her. She has no daughters. Her relationship with her other DILs is completely different. In fact, MrsCB, you could almost be one of my SILs from your description. So why can't she accept me, even after over 30 years? Sadly, MIL is a self acknowledged 'snob'. And I believe that this is at the heart of it. She doesn't understand why her DS (my DH) would fall in love with someone who is not slim, university educated and who was brought up in a council house. And yet her background is almost the same as mine!

There have been so many incidents over the years, some of which would make your hair curl, but I am not going to give them here in case they 'out' me. But trust me, the problem really does start and end with her. I will continue to do what I feel is the right thing. I will continue to attempt to include her in our lives. But these days I am no longer upset when she comes up with her ridiculous excuses, or accepts an invitation to dinner on Boxing Day 'as long as nothing better comes along'! I will continue to try to persuade my DCs to maintain contact with her, even though as adults now they are entitled to make their choice ( and have done, based on her treatment of them when they were younger), I will continue to remind DH to phone/visit her. I will continue to be the one who remembers her birthday and arranges cards/gifts etc on DH's behalf. etc etc. I will do that because I do believe family is important and I do include her as a member of our extended family even if she seems to find it difficult to include us. But the saddest thing about it all? I no longer care one way or another. I do not like her, neither do I dislike her; I am indifferent towards her. And I think that is worse.

[Blueberties]

I agree wamster. The thing is there is an older woman who knows, or who thinks she knows, exactly the best way to look after one of (or the) person she loves most in the world, having to give way to someone new, and also the same older woman who has brought up children having to watch someone who probably doesn't have a clue and needs to learn, bringing up a baby in a different way than she did. Where babies come into the picture, you obviously have a potentially oversensitive new mother.

However the happiness of a new mother does rather take precedence because being undermined, told you're a failure, enduring hints you're a failure, having a baby taken away from you if crying, being told you're feeding at the wrong time, putting in the wrong clothes, bathing at the wrong temperature etc etc etc all the time is, or can be, very damaging and can send someone spiralling into depression.

My own experience of my MIL is this, and it's the same experience of my well-balanced sils of the same woman, so I know it's not me: also my sister had a horrific experience and continues to do s owith her own MIL.

So when people say, I've got a problem with my MIL, I don't assume they're making it up, or there's something wrong with them. I think, poor them. And I think people who say such problems "taint" mn probably don't have a clear understanding or much experience of how damaging and undermining and such problems can be to real live people -- as opposed to undermining a thread on a forum, which doesn't really matter at all, and in fact really only constitutes putting a different view.

[Hungrydragon]

I speak as someone who bore the brunt of a terrible mil/dil relationship which utterly marred my childhood, as I was left to care for a mentally unstable grandparent whilst my parents had an awful lot of me time to get away from her.

I get on brilliantly with my mil whom I love to bits. Bluelibertiesi think you have tried to over simplify the ops question and undermine an interesting thread as the posts are very varied.

I am curious those of you who had found you got on better with your mil after divorce, do you think a bad relationship with their son tainted your perception of them, or do you think that it was because after splitting your relationship was based on seeing her as an independent equal, not their son's oh? Or something else entirely? I find it really interesting that both mils and dils have posted about improved relationships after the relationship ends.

Btw I think the op is clear she isn't looking for answers, just interested in the variety of relationships out there.

[EEEEKinthebeeswax]

I adore my MIL, she is great. She is considerate, helpful, and has never been awkward with me. She is quite posh, so at first I was scared to death, thought she would think me common! She thinks nothing of the sort. She knows I love her son and knows I will probably provide her with more grandchildren! Plus, she gets on with my mum too. To be honest they are very similar women.

I think MIL just happy her son has settled down![hsmile]

[pink4ever]

I cannot stand my mil. I dont feel guilty about it-she has brought it upon herself. She emotionally blackmails both dh and myself to get what she wants-eg dinner at their house every sunday for the last 13 years,xmas too.

She moans about her ds-my dh-not phoning her etc-well if I didnt nag him he wouldnt bloody phone you at all!

Professes to love her gcs-yeah you love them so much that you never offer to babysit,take them out and when they go to your house every sunday are expected to sit in front of tv all day.

But the thing I dislike her for the most is the sly,snide comments about me being a sahm and about how her poor ds works soooooo hard to support us all. I enable your son to go to work you old witch! and if EVER offered to help out with childcare like you did with your other son then maybe I would be able to work.

Quite frankly mil you should be kissing my arse for putting up with some of the shit your son has put me through over the years.

I am currently in mil bad books because I have told her we are having xmas at home this year

[Wamster]

I've tried to be civil to mil for ages -did whatever she wanted to do when she visited, even though not interested in going places she wants to go, but I now leave it up to dh to arrange visits with the woman. Which kind of never happens but no less there for me.
No way am I going to play an active role in getting her to visit anymore. She is not my friend and she never will be. Some mils and dils obviously get on, but I think it is better to be realistic when your mil is a bitch and not flog a dead horse and just accept that basic politeness is the way to go without pretensions to a good relationship. In fact, damage limitation is often the only way as they can be so poisonous. As little visits as possible, not telling her anything but trivial stuff.
She lives a good distance away so never visits for less than two days at a time.

But what made me convinced that I despised the woman -as opposed to just being wary of her- was when she took dh out to buy a gift for his birthday. God, he's got more money than she does- he didn't even want or need a gift from her!
But no. She insisted on getting him a gift all the same. We had to trudge to town and dh picked a small gift that was well within her price range. She absolutely refused to buy it. Made a scene about what a waste of money it was etc etc.

I have despised the cow ever since. I can just imagine the shit this insensitive cow put him through- promising him gifts as a child but not delivering them.
As an adult, he shrugs it off. I see through her now, though, and can't stand her.

[MrsCampbellBlack]

Oh and I find all the mil threads depressing especially being the mother of 2 sons and just don't read them any more.

Undoubtedly there are some nightmare mils but I hate all the 'you're his family now' comments that always appear in those threads, as though once a man marries his mother becomes totally irrelevant.

How a man treats his mother is a pretty important indicator of his whole character in my opinion.

[MrsCampbellBlack]

I have an excellent relationship with my mil - I do things for her like take her out for the day shopping/lunch etc and she helps me.

We like each other and are tolerant - I laugh at her foibles as I'm sure she does mine.

I am also incredibly grateful for any childcare she does for me and never dictate what she can and can't do with my dcs as I totally trust her.

[Wamster]

I do agree with you to a certain extent bluebertie, but this is an internet forum and human nature means that people tend to not realise that others don't have the cosy relationships that they do. So c'est la vie.

On a separate note, I think it is something about the relationship itself rather than the two people involved who might get on OK under normal circumstances e.g. as work colleagues.

Also, I used to believe that if two people did not get on but had to see each other -like mil and dil- having a lot of distance between them helps. I don't think that anymore because when they do visit there is usually a couple of days of intense visiting.

Less than five miles is also bad as they can 'pop in' at any time.

The best distance- for those that don't have helicopters!- is probably about 20 or so miles because you'll probably arrange to meet them for a few hours for lunch every other sunday or once a week which should be tolerable.
You won't spend hours on end or days in their company.

Also, if people live 20 miles or so away, there is less pressure to see them. After all, they're only a short drive away.

[startail]

Mine died 11 years ago and I still miss her, it makes me sad that people find it so hard to get along.
It also puzzles me, because surely many of your DH/DPs must share character traits with your MILs.

[MrsBloodyTroll]

Some MILs will accept that once their DS meets a life partner, they no longer need to mother their son on a regular basis. And then there's my MIL. .

Same thing has happened with the GCs. She wants to be their Mum, not their Grandmother.

She wanted to be my Mum too, span the usual contrite nonsense about having another daughter once DH and I were engaged. Except my Mum is still very much alive, kicking and part of my life.

This is why I plan to have other things/interests in my life beside DCs, so that I can let my DCs fly off into the world, not feel redundant, but still be there for them if needed.