If your DP came home and said he had a private dance at a strip club....

[LilllyLovesLife]

What would your reaction be?

[ScareyFairenuff]

I have to say that it sounds to me like some of the posters here really want lap dancing to equal prostitution so they can feel more justified in disliking it

Paying another person for sexual gratification is prostitution

all the stories I have heard that aren't on campaigning websites are pretty clear that a private dance is merely a dance one on one that you pay for, almost always top off, sometimes a quick bottoms off

Precisely. This is the problem. The OP is not overly happy with her husband watching a naked woman dance for him in exchange for money.


I think also there is some double-thinking - it is OK for men to understand that women work, but not OK to treat lapdancers as people who are working.

I think the men who frequent lap dancing clubs very much think of the women as working girls.

If my bloke went into boots and started treating the counter staff as lovers I would think that was weird, yet people here get all uppity if men don't form some deep bond with women who are working and who, like them, are all hair teeth and sexual allure until the job is done and on to the next customer.

No they don't. I have not read one single post suggesting that these men should form a deep bond with lapdancers. I have read that some people think women in the sex industry are exploited. And no-one disputes that sex trafficking exists. What do you think happens to those poor girls?

humans are so weird about buying each other generally. I think humans generally accept that it's ok to hire a plumber or an accountant. It's just the buying of other humans for sexual gratification which is frowned on.

[AnyPhantomFucker]

yes, garlic, I read MF's posts and my eyes glazed over

where would you start with addressing them ?

I went and had a piece of cake instead

[garlicScaresVampires]

Those are pretty strange posts, imo, missingfriends. I'm curious as to what you think the appeal of a private dance is, if not to be sexually excited by a stranger acting like a piece of performing meat?

It's not like Strictly Come Dancing, you know ... (though it might be, with the pun )

[HoneyMomster]

do you think there's an equivelance between serving someone a sandwich. say, and simulating sex with them, missingfriends?

And yes thankfully humans are pretty weird about buying each other generally. I'd hate to live in world where they're not!

[ShriekingLisa]

My dh read this thread and asked me of Is seen it (he is a fellow mner or dner of you like but doesnt use dadsnet) and asked me what my reaction would be so iv just read It.

My answer was
' I would not be Impressed, not only would be get a bollocking he would be eating his bollocks and if he shagged her he would have his cock for afters'

He laughed as he knows I mean it

Lol

[Missingfriendsandsad]

and actually, really when it comes down to it, we all work because we have a family to support, some work because they have alcohol or drug habits to pay for, some have a 4x4 habit that drives them into working .. all work is essentially a position where 'the workers are more vulnerable and in need of the cash than those who employ them' that is how, sadly, capitalism works. The people who don't really need to work who do it for pleasure only are soooo rare!

[Missingfriendsandsad]

I have to say that it sounds to me like some of the posters here really want lap dancing to equal prostitution so they can feel more justified in disliking it - all the stories I have heard that aren't on campaigning websites are pretty clear that a private dance is merely a dance one on one that you pay for, almost always top off, sometimes a quick bottoms off, but almost never more than about 5 mins for £30 or so. The idea that there is 'rubbing until completion' seems silly - I am not sure any bloke would cum after less than 2 mins of contact through trousers in a public place drunk is there?

after reading some of those 'testimonials' too many of them (and there aren't many) are saying 'I heard that somebody said that prostitution might happen' or 'someone said they would set up a fake lapdancing club that was really a brothel, but I don't know if they did' which is pretty bloody flimsy.

I think also there is some double-thinking - it is OK for men to understand that women work, but not OK to treat lapdancers as people who are working. If my bloke went into boots and started treating the counter staff as lovers I would think that was weird, yet people here get all uppity if men don't form some deep bond with women who are working and who, like them, are all hair teeth and sexual allure until the job is done and on to the next customer. I just honestly don't get why it is so weird (apart from the fact, obviously that humans are so weird about buying each other generally of course)...

[Uppity]

I don't think it matters whether every sex worker is a poor vulnerable woman or not.

What is clear, is that every man who thinks he has the right to participate in her exploitation, is a misogynist, vile, creep.

[VictorGollancz]

I don't believe it either, chipstick. I do believe that some sex workers love their job and have negotiated favourable conditions for themselves.

I also believe, however, that the the majority (might not be a huge majority, but a majority nonetheless) of sex workers, strippers and lap dancers are more vulnerable than those who employ them and who purchase their services.

I believe that no man can tell which sex worker is which - is she the one who is loving every second of it, or is she the one who has to resort to sex work because she is coerced, or has a drug habit, or has children to support, or has been trafficked? She isn't going to tell him, after all - I can't imagine that the sex worker who explains in detail exactly how she is forced to do this is going to be a sex worker who makes any money.

So how can he know?

Under these conditions, it is grossly irresponsible, callous, and misogynistic of any man to visit a sex worker.

[chipstick10]

I dont believe that every sex worker or lap dancer or stripper is a poor vulnerable woman.

[susiedaisy]

Agree with mal

[Malificence]

What a very odd correlation JLK, nobody on this thread is disputing that feeling sexual attraction towards people other than your partner is perfectly normal, but if the attraction is to a work colleague then you wouldn't expect them to strip off and dance for you in exchange for payment.
Paying for another human being to prostitute themself for your entertainment is anything but normal however.

I don't see how any woman can be ok with a man who thinks he is entitled to buy a woman's body for the purpose of sexual arousal and /or gratification.

[JLK2]

I really wouldn't care tbh. I'm not naive enough to think that a man only has sexual feelings towards his wife.

[AnyCorpseFucker]

thanks WA

[babyhammock]

I totally get that you want to believe his version... but think about it.. ALL his friends are in to this (red flag in itself) and then he tries to insult yor intelligence by claiming a private dance cost his friend a tenner.. er that is a lie and he knows it.

So why is he lying?

[gapants]

OP i feel for you, you have invested alot of time into this relationship and he has accepted your DDs, which must be a massive thing. However he has shown himself to be shallow and without moral integrity. I too (as other posters have said) would feel disgusted if my partner came home, had lap dance stink all over him then babysat my kids. My daughters, no less. Well, it just would not happen, he would be out on his sorry ass.

His mate made him do it

Just think on that for a while, what else will his mate make him do? What sort of individual compromises themselves like that to please a "mate"? No adult i know.

You know him, he came home, he was straight with you, you feel like he made a mistake, and we all make mistakes, but this one? This one, that sits and lets vulnerable, exploited women simulate sex all over you for a measly tenner, juts to save face infront of a mate? Deal breaker for sure.

[wantadvice]

Great post, anycorpsefucker (love your new username btw).

[garlicScaresVampires]

I agree with all those who are saying this is not a good sign, I'm afraid. He's easily led to things he doesn't 'want' to do, apparently, so he could be easily led into any kind of relationship-wrecking crap couldn't he?

You said: I can't just end my relationship because a mumsnetter told me to. - Which is totally sensible. But he can take part in cynical profiteering from a woman's body, just because a friend told him to! How does he get to be so feeble, when you're not?

£10 is a joke price for a private dance. Either that's wrong, or he was in the very worst kind of place where the dancers are forced to provide 'extras'. I should say, there's truth in the old saying "You know a man by the company he keeps." If all his mates are into cheap prostitution female exploitation, how come he manages to jolly along without getting into rucks about it?

[Landedgentry]

It always amazes me how women can be attracted to anyone spineless enough to follow the herd and it makes me wonder about their own esteem.

However, since you've made your mind up to stay with someone who is weak, keeps awful company and can't say no even under slight pressure, have a think about what he will do next if and when they move on to prostitutes on a weekend away. It doesn't sound as though he'll have the gumption to return to the hotel and he certainly won't try to dissuade his mates from going ahead, will he? He'll be too frightened of being a party pooper, won't he?

And how about if a woman makes a play for him in the future? His mates will be urging him to "go ahead, sex-on-a-plate doesn't get offered every day, Lillly need never know" - what will he do then?

What about everyday situations that as your daughters grow, will call for a parent with strong boundaries? Will he stand up for them? Will he confront a shoddy tradesperson, or will he take the line of least resistance and you'll have to pick up the bill?

These are the consequences of staying with a moral coward.

[ChildofIsis]

I was with my xh for 28 years and thought I 'knew him'.

Who can say what causes someone to stray from their usual moral path.
I would just use this as a heads up to what may happen in the future.

I suggest a long calm conversation about boundaries is required.

Good Luck.

[Uppity]

It is really sad that women are so desperate to have a man in their life, that they make excuses for really bad ones.

OP this guy is not a good role model for your children. He is either a total liar or he is so weak that he's no good to you. The thing is, it's 8 months into your relationship and he told you about the private dance, because he wants to test your boundaries - how much shit are you prepared to put up with? If you forgive him for this, he knows he can do it again and each time he can blame it on one of his friends and you'll accept it, because you've invested 2 years or 5 years, or 10 years of your life with him now instead of 8 months, so it becomes more difficult to cut it with him.

I know it's hard being a single mother, i know it's lovely to have support and babysitting and sex and the status of being part of a couple; but your DD's will learn a template of what a man is like, from this specimen. Would you want them to get together with either spineless or mendacious men? Because you're telling them loud and clear, that that sort of man is good enough for you, when he's not, he's not good enough at all, you and your DD's deserve much better than this and being single is better than being with a man like this, women can't be told too often how much better it is to have self-respect, than a shit man.

[AnyCorpseFucker]

Lilly, you need to listen when this man tells you what he is

Only 8 months in you now know..

1. he is of weak character and will be swayed to do something he allegedly has moral objections to.
   
   You say this is a one off. I don't think so. This was an oridinary night out, with an ordinary mate. What about all the other potentially risky situations for him (if he is unable to be autonomous)...stag do's, birthday parties, other lads nights out etc. Being "easily swayed" is for 15yo's, not grown men
   
   
2. he does not fully respect women. He did this then immediately babysat your daughters. That is fucking grim. Men who use the sex industry do not respect women. They see women as objects. They see women as 2 classes of object...one to have a relationship with and the other an underclass only fit for servicing men. He does not have to come across as a "sexual perv" to hold these viewpoints.
   
   Now, only 8 months in you are saying how can you penalise him for one mistake ? I say, this is the perfect time to get shut of him. He has given you the perfect excuse unless you want to stay with such a weak, lily-livered individual who places his own social embarassment above his moral obligations. That is pathetic.
   
   Are you reluctant to bin him because you have invested so much in him already ? Introduced this man to your daughters ? Trusted that he is a decent person. It's not too late to accept you made a mistake.

[aliasforthis2]

Listen, I' not going to go all over-dramatic because you are clearly not wanting to hear it. Despite the fact I've worked in the sex industry and I can tell you with very few exceptions it's vile and full of exploitation (and not of men, the men have the choice of whether to partake or not, the workers - not always or even often). Maybe it was peer pressure, but I couldn't respect someone with so little backbone. Maybe his true character is coming out now. I don't know or profess to know about your relationship.

I will say one thing though - use this as an opportunity to define your boundaries with your P now. Let him know that under no circumstances will you tolerate him setting foot in one of those places again. Someone upthread made a good point in suggesting she would say that if he wanted to partake again to get on with his life without her. I'd say something like that, and also maybe educate him on a few home truths about lap-dancing. I am telling you that touching DOES happen in private booths. Sometimes more. It's not EVERY club but it's not uncommon. The majority of the dancers come to hate men. I have never been a dancer, but have known lots of dancers as the prostitution and lap-dancing industries go hand in hand and are very connected.

Define your boundaries with him now, and if he disrespects you by doing it again (however much "peer pressure" he gets) or tries to tell you you are wrong/ a prude for not wanting your partner to at the very least sexually objectify and ogle another woman's body, then you will see his true colours then.

It would maybe be a different story if you were OK with it, but clearly you are not, so you have to let this be known and give him a chance to respect you more than a quick sexual moment of objectification.

[LilllyLovesLife]

Thank you scary and lifeissweet. Very good points and I will be thinking about this, and disscussing it with him.

[tallwivghoulies]

Eeeeh, Hully - my first 'lol' of the day!