help re Asperger'ssyndrome

[catdoctor]

I've posted this in health too, but anyone out there with experience on Asperger's syndrome in adults? I've been with DH 20yrs and not sure how much more of his weirdness I can take - I am v suspcious he has AS and so maybe there's help out there for him or me? Any info on symptoms?

[issey6cats]

my STBXH was so charming at the begining of our relationship i couldnt believe what a lovely guy he was, turned out i was his current obsession and over 8 years devotion turned to antipathy, since we got together and married he had more good things in life than with his ex, and it still wasnt enough 3 times i caught him chatting up women on a dating site and the first twice promised to stop and didnt and when asked why he did it he said i havent done anything wrong am bull shi~~ing the women im chatting up, and i just got resentment for catching him out, he felt entitled to do what he did,

so sorry but aspies are not neccesarily loyal, he will fall over himself to do stuff for other people if i want something i usually have to do it myself, totally hates spending any money on the house but will find any amount of money needed for his projects like a new car etc,holidays he had never been abroad before he met me, we went to Turkey and cos he loved it wouldnt consider any other destination other than Marmaris took him to Istanbul and cos it wasnt Marmaris he didnt like it and spent the whole time pestering to go back to Marmaris,

nevr listens to what you say unless its something he wants to know about the rest goes in one ear and out the other

luckily until recently when we split i am an outgoing person who makes friends easily and i simply did what i wanted to do without asking him if it was alright ie, volunteer work and going to college,

[amberlight]

As I've said on other threads about men with asperger syndrome, I'm on the autism spectrum myself, and so is dh. He's absolutely wonderful as a dh and I wouldn't part with him for the world. He takes me away for romantic breaks, buys me flowers, listens to me, tells me how marvellous I am. If he can do it, so can most of the others too.

Amongst our other friends are many many men on the autism spectrum whose wives/partners say that they are very happy together.
Like all things in life, it's only the ones whose relationships are a disaster who end up being reported about on relationships threads like this.

For those who have a child on the autism spectrum, please don't despair. There is no reason why your dc cannot grow up to have a good and loving relationship with someone if we learn enough rules and spend enough time teaching ourselves how to show love, how to listen,and how to demonstrate caring.

I have absolutely no doubt that there are men and women on the spectrum who are naff and orrible and selfish partners, but mostly the issues in our lives are because we literally cannot process the signals about what a partner needs. Same as if we were deaf and someone said, "you're being hugely selfish for not listening to me!" We don't do it deliberately - it's not a disability that causes nastiness. We just can't see or hear the social stuff unless it's very clear and we have enough chance to think about it and learn from it.

If a partner won't even try to help themselves or you, then that's nothing to do with autism and everything to do with them just being plain selfish, same as anyone else could be, alas. There are some nasty people with autism, same as there are some nasty people without it. Either way, if someone just won't change and won't accept training to help improve things and life is 'orrible, there's no reason to put up with it.

[issey6cats]

amber its great to hear that you and your Oh have found a way through to a good relationship sadly my ex knew what he had done wrong each time ie: taking me for granted, becoming distant cos his attention was elswhere, always promised to change do things better and then promptly carry on as if i hadnt said anything to him, im sad we didnt make it because i adored him and we have had some very good times and experiences in the last 8 years, even now he is saying stuff like when his daughter finds a boyfriend and leaves home well we can just get back together again, he just simply does not see what he has done and how much he abused my trust , he thinks being nicewass buying a bar of chocolate for me and making endless cups of tea to the point i had to say no more tea im swimming in the stuff

[HullEnzia]

Issey - does your ex have a name beginning with S?? that is EXACTLY what my ex said, when his daughter leaves home we can get back together and he'll concentrate on me then. He also made endless cups of tea and kept turning up with little chocolate bars! That is so weird.

[issey6cats]

HULLENZIA no begins with C but that is weird maybe its cos they are little boys in big skins lol

[lisad123]

This is such a sad thread in many ways, but also remember not all down to Asd, some men are just idiots
We have two girls with autism and pretty sure dh is.
He drives me mad, he breaks so many things, cannot forward plan, never listens properly, never learns from practice, says things that are rude (not to me but silly mistakes), panics about things which really don't matter, never sees jobs that need doing, obbesive about things to the exclution of others, never gets when I'm mad unless I tell him! BUT he loves our girls, works hard, would do anything for me, makes me laugh, is kind, sweet, tries so hard, and very yummy
I wouldn't say it's easy and I think his grown to depend a little too much on the fact we are routine led (to help the girls) and that most things are planned an done for him.

[lisad123]

Should also say been marries ten years and don't plannon going anywhere without him

[WhoseGotMyEyebrows]

He drives me mad, he breaks so many things, cannot forward plan, never listens properly, never learns from practice, says things that are rude (not to me but silly mistakes), panics about things which really don't matter, never sees jobs that need doing, obbesive about things to the exclution of others, never gets when I'm mad unless I tell him!

Wow that is so my dad!

[WhoseGotMyEyebrows]

Sorry that was to lisad

[WhoseGotMyEyebrows]

HullEnzia My ex got into so much debt he lost his house, his job and ended up being declared bankrupt. 2 years later he managed to get a dodgy 10000000% loan (bit of an exaguration but you know the type), didn't pay the repayments so ended up with debt collectors coming around again (remember this was only 2 years after he lost everything and got declared bankrupt which cleared his debts). So again, he ended up in trouble, having to agree repayment scheduals etc etc - eventually managed to pay that off and then instantly applied (and succeeded) for a 40% credit card. Within 6 months he'd maxed that out and started "forgetting" the repayments. I've since heard he's desperately trying to get a loan.


I also have a friend who I suspect has Aspergers or similar and she has done exactly that. I can't be around her anymore as it drives me crazy!

[rapunzelsoldaunt]

My sf is aspergic, obsessive, unaware of impact on others, no sense of personal space, litterally stands right in fromt of you or behind you, ..obsessions: Bought two race horses, trained to be a jocky(he's 6ft!) Lost thousands gave it up when he discovered golf, gave that up when discovered opera , moved on to art, speaks 6 languages... Just constantly obsessing singlemindedly about things. Also he is not loyal romantically, he has had 4 wives, 5 children by diff women all before my mum i must say. I think that the obsessivness manifests in love too, they get totally cauhght up in someone, head over heals, and that can be attractive at first i could imagine. Before they get bored and move on to next obsesssion.My mum has had 20 yrs of it, they are still together,as companions, but live seperatly as she couldnt cope with it any more on a daily basis. I think they managed to stay together by having very seperate individual lives. My mum could never have relied on him financially or emotionally, he just too wrapped up in his own world. Good luck!

[VeryLittleGraveEaters]

How many of these so-called Aspergers men have a formal diagnosis, I wonder.

Being a self-absorbed twat with no idea of responsibility does not equal Autism Spectrum Disorder.

My father, DP, several friends and two of my children are on the spectrum. None of them would ever behave in this fashion.

[bubblegumpop]

What graves said. Lots of mental health specialists and psychologists around who manage to diagnose from a book. .

Asd seems the throw around label ATM to excuse shitty behaviour. Rather than the mental disability it is.

Men and women can be selfish, obsessive arseholes, that does not equate asd.

Parents fearing for their kids future, with these stories don't. I'd guess most if not all men mentioned here don't have a formal diagnosis. Accept for selfishitis.

With the right input from the right people, depending on their specific issues. There is no reason why they can't have healthy relationships.

[HullEnzia]

He drives me mad, he breaks so many things, cannot forward plan, never listens properly, never learns from practice, says things that are rude (not to me but silly mistakes), panics about things which really don't matter, never sees jobs that need doing, obbesive about things to the exclution of others, never gets when I'm mad unless I tell him!
------

This is my ex too. He would always break things, never listened to a word I said and would panic over the most stupid things like the arrival of a bus for example. We'd be stood at a bus stop and this convo would take place:

Me - "so when we get into town do you wa - "
him - "yeah"
Me - "You don't even know what I was going to s - "
him - "umm" "yeah"
Me - "I SAID - when we get into to - "
him - "the bus is here!! I can see it now"

Total panic over the arrival of a bus to the point where EVERYTHING else faded into nothingness.

Rapunzal - I too think my ex's love interests were just part of his many obsessions (including me).

[peppapighastakenovermylife]

Well I am actually a psychologist who ironically did her undergrad dissertation on Asperger's

My DH is not deliberately hurtful and would never cheat as he knows that is wrong. He loves the kids and would never leave them - again a known rule

He just cant lie / white lie / understand how his actions affect others

[bubblegumpop]

So his official diagnosis is where?

Spouses can make anything they want fit, to try and justify things.

If he was on the ASD spectrum, and you seriously thought he was, as you said you don't know what to do.

You should seek referral and assessment. With a diagnosis of whatever, he can then seek the right therapy to help you all.

A lot of people say "no, it's too hard", "too many hoops to jump through". Well yes because labeling someone with a lifelong mental disability is actually quite a serious thing, as it can really affect ones life. But if that's what they have, then it's necessary to get the help and support one deserves. People always seem reluctant though, because it could affect their "prospects". Well yes but it can if they aren't getting the help. People then seem to cherry pick SD.

The thing is people are happy to carry on, without obtaining help/medical help/ diagnosis. Self diagnose and carry on putting up with behaviour they aren't happy with as it must be ASD. Then moan they can't cope.

Yes asd diagnosis's are hard to get, this is because it takes time, the professionals have to be sure. Also many who think they have asd, don't. That's why people who self diagnose, just to excuse shitty behaviour are doing untold damage to REAL Autism sufferers.

As people just think it's bad behaviour, when it's far, far more than that.

If people seriously think their husbands are mentally disabled, which is what you are talking about here. Then you owe it to your family and them to get proper medical help, if their behaviours are causing so much anguish.

You then may just find they are self centered twats and you are way off, or they may have some form of personality disorder rather than ASD.

But putting it down to ASD, without a diagnosis HELPS NO-ONE.

[bubblegumpop]

^If I cry he walks off. He doesnt initiate hugs or kisses. He doesnt like cuddling up. He never compliments me.

He is however affectionate with the DC's.^

It's things like this, that an outsider, not blinded by the ASD label can see as obvious signs too.

If a person with ASD, lacks affection, some do, some don't. If they do. it's a blanket thing in general.

So he'll show affection freely to the dc's but not with you? Doesn't sound very ASD, plus with the things he says, he just sounds rude and not that in love with you.

Again people seem to want to make ASD "fit" to try and justify the shit behaviour of their husbands towards them. It's just madness.

[WhoseGotMyEyebrows]

HullEnzia That bus thing rings lots of bells for me with my dad. He always did that as I was growing up. He would get anxious about the bus being late as well. It meant that I was always tense and anxious as well as I knew he would be. As a result I have had problems with anxiety as an adult. It can have a knock on effect I think.

[amberlight]

For further clarity, I know plenty of people on the autism spectrum who are clergy, accountants, lawyers, surveyors, artists, poets, authors, etc etc who are thoroughly responsible, don't take silly risks with money or other things and are jolly nice people. I also know plenty of people who aren't on the autism spectrum who make a total mess of money, relationships and everything else.

We are bad at spotting social cues, get exhausted quickly in social or overwhelming environments, can have our pet obsessive hobbies, and find change hugely difficult to cope with...but there's nothing in the diagnosis about being incompetent with money etc either.

If you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism.

[catdoctor]

bubblegum, amber - I take on board everything about diagnosis, what's genuine ASD vs shitty behviour - how do I broach this with DH who is sensitive to the point of paranoia? Any negative comment from me will put him 'in his cave' probably for days. I'll repeat myself - I have no problem doing whatever I can with my behaviour to help him - I have been trying for 20yrs, it is unreasonable of me to expect/hope he'll come part way to meet me?
I'm interested you think it is a disabilty - lots of stuff I've read implies it's just a different normal - in my DH's own words - 'I reject your reality and replace it with my own'.
Please don't be angry with me if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick - I posted originally in a 'well it won't hurt to see what's out there' way and seem to have stirred up a hornets' nest. I had no idea. How else can I learn unless I ask ?.

[bubblegumpop]

Aspergers is on the autistic spectrum. Autism and all disorders on the spectrum are classed as mental disabilities. That is what it is. A lot of people don't realise this sadly with it being the new fad label. This is why the diagnosis process is so complex. It's a lifelong mental disability, which never goes away. Although many with aspergers are very successful. It's still a serious diagnosis.

Some people on the autistic spectrum are high functioning, others not so. It's classed as disability for disability living allowance. Some people on the autistic spectrum need lots of help. Aspergers is high functioning. It's more complex than just being a different normal.

The only way you'll get to the bottom of what's causing this is with medical help. To get the real help, you need the support of a diagnosis of whatever, so they know what they are trying to treat.

If he won't go, maybe you can start by seeing the gp asking for his advice. However autistic spectrum or not, hes got to want to help himself. If he refuses knowing the stress it's causing you, well you have to decide what to do.

[amberlight]

(Strictly speaking, it's a neurological condition rather than a mental one (mental health conditions being ones that are temporary and can be treated in some way). Autism is a different brain design. There's a big debate about whether it's a disability or difference. It has to cause more than minor problems with everyday life for someone to get a diagnosis of it. I'm not bothered by the word disability, myself. Others are. Don't mind either way.

Autism and asperger syndrome are the same thing in the new diagnostic standards (DSM V). Neither is high functioning. But autism sometimes happens at the same time as a learning disability, which is where the 'low functioning' thing comes into it. They mistook the autism symptoms for learning disability symptoms, and now they've realised they were two different things.

When they look at life outcomes, even those of us with high IQs for some sorts of testing can have massive problems with other aspects of life e.g. friendships, coping with change, keeping a job, independent living skills etc. IQ isn't the same as social skills nor common sense, and those two things are what matter. Otherwise we can know everything there is to know about subject X and yet not know how to use that knowledge, or how to persuade anyone else to work with us on it.)

I never expect others to have to do hard work for me if I can do it myself. If my behaviour is a problem for others, I want to know. I may not be able to do much about some of it, but at the very least I can help them find some answers and some strategies. Same with dh. If he's done something that's caused me any stress, I tell him and he and I work out what to do to solve it. It may help that we're both on the spectrum and can communicate in the same way, I guess. But I do a lot to help people understand each other when one is NT and the other is AS. Sort of 'interpreter work', I guess.

[bubblegumpop]

Yes it's neurological as it's not mental illness. It is classed for medical referrals as a mental disability. There are only 2 categories. Physical or mental. So it falls into the latter. Not to be confused with mental illness, which as you say can be cured. Autism obviously can't.

Indeed the guidelines have changed. Aspergers in old money was high functioning. You are now either asd or not. Then other learning difficulties are diagnosed at the time if they can be, or queried on the diagnosis.

So yes it's all very thorough. But if people are so sure and it's causing so many issues. They need medical help.

[garlicScaresVampires]

Amber, we've talked about this much before (I had a different username) and I think it's likely that today's children, who have been diagnosed with Asperger's, will enjoy a smoother ride in relationships than today's 30+ Aspies. The education system picks them up early, aims to teach in appropriate ways and provides guidance on living successfully in an NT world.

I remember your talking about your parents, who seemed remarkably foresighted and determined to provide you with the best start in life. They succeeded! Most, as you know, were unaware of AS disorders - and, if aware, frightened of them. Without suitable support, very many Aspies must have grown up scared, disorientated and embittered.

Although I now think of my ex as personality disordered rather than Asperger's, the behavioural similarities can be striking. This is why I try to convey that - when talking about adults in unsatisfactory relationships - the diagnosis is pretty much irrelevant. What you need to be looking at is whether you can live, happily, with this particular set of behaviours?

Of course, it's a whole different matter when the relationship is sound but both partners feel the less-NT one could use a diagnosis and some assistance. But they're less likely to be posting on this board!

catdoctor, you asked about 'love'? There's a beautiful blog post by an Aspie man, much-referenced but I've lost my bookmark: He describes an exercise in which he and his NT wife were asked to write what love means. He wrote about feeling as though the sun shone on his face when he looked at DW :) She wrote about acts of sharing, doing things together, feeling like a team. He learned something valuable from the lesson - but what he didn't (perhaps can't) see is that his love was all about his feeling, while hers was about mutual give-and-take; blending.
Amber might have the link. It's a delightful blog. Good luck on your journey, whichever direction it takes.

[cussandroid]

I've just read Tony Attwood's huge book on Asperger Syndrome. In it, he says that some people can have shadows of AS - ie, can be affected by it but not necessarily to a diagnosable extent. He is pretty upbeat about Aspergers.

Amberlight, can you recommend any resources for someone who is NT, is married to someone who appears to have shadows of AS, and wants to continue in the marriage, just make it a bit less jarring - for both parties? WWYD?

(Short of hiring you as interpreter, obviously...)