need some advise? - urgent!!!!!

[jinna]

My brother and sister-in-law are having some serious marriage problems and it looks like their marriage may end - the problem is that my sister-in-law is suffering from depression and her perception about a lot of things is wrong - they have two young ch and it is likely that if they separate then the ch will go to live with her - but we are worried as to how she will cope and if she does something silly. She refuses to get any help and can come across fine when she goes to the doctors - but some of her behaviour at home can be bizare. How can my brother get her assessed so he can make sure the kids will be fine with her - any help will be greatly appreciated

[TeaMaker]

Jinna,
My brother's marriage broke up in January with two kids (2yrs and 4 yrs old). My sister in-laws view of things seemed to be a bit off but then only the two of them really knew what the truth was. The whole family has found it deeply upsetting. The kids have gone to live with her and there is very little my brother can do to make sure that she stays local or what access she allows (not yet divorced and so nothing agreed legally). My brother is devastated - adored his children, bathed them every night up until they moved out. Your brother will need to know that he has the support of the whole family and that support needs to continue for a long time. I don't know what help he can get - other than contacting Relate - couples do not need to both attend.

[jinna]

thanks for that Teamaker

the problem is that my sister-in-laws behaviour is a more than a bit off - we know for him to get custody would be a miracle because of how the legal system works but at the same time how can we guarantee that the kids will be safe with her - i can't believe that there is nothing we can do

your brother sounds very similar to mine - he adores his children and he is devastated by what has happened and at the same time he is worried sick about the childrens welfare
please if there is anyone who can tell us where he stands legally it would be great - we have talked to two solicitors but they have not been very helpful

[doormat]

jinna can your brother try and have a word with her doctor about her depression and voice his concerns. I know he can not access her medical notes etc but I am sure that he can tell her doctor that something is not right with her and she is very depressed.

[jinna]

he has tried this - on one occasion we went over to visit and she was talking very strangely and her eyes were going funny and then the next day she was fine - he did take her to the doctors and he recommended some medication and counselling - she took the councelling option - but she only went for two weeks and stopped it herself

my SIL has been through a lot - she seems to have changed when she lost her father - a couple of years later she was pregnant and lost her baby when she was 6 months pregnant - she then went on to be pregnant again and had a baby born very premature but who is doing very well now - so understandably she has been affected greatly

my brothers and SIL relationship has now gone very sour - i think she seems to blame him for the loss of the baby and a lot of other things - she seems to be making up things in her mind and every time he trys to resolve the situation she seems to go back to the past and bring up things which he hasn't even done

at the end of the day what happens in their relationship is up to them - but I can see she is not well and needs help and i worry for the children

[ScummyMummy]

What sort of unsafe behaviour are we talking here? Depression in itself will not necessarily impact on your sister in law's ability to care for her children at all, as many lovely mums on here can attest, so I'm assuming that her particular illness is causing worrying behaviour towards the children. Why is he concerned about their welfare? Does she hit them, neglect them, emotionally abuse them or something like this? If he has genuine worries for the kids' safety and feels that his absence will endanger them further he should seek advice from social services. If not, she is probably doing a "good enough" job and your brother might do better to concentrate on seeking legal advice to get as favourable a custody arrangement as possible.

The stress of marital breakdown can seriously skew people's perceptions of each other, obviously, and perhaps your brother needs to sort out in his own mind how serious his worries about the children are before he decides on a course of action? (I'm absolutely NOT saying that his concerns aren't justified, knowing so little of the situation, but it can happen that things are blown out of proportion at difficult times, understandably.) Could some sort of mediation or counselling help him to sort out what his exact concerns are and how best to proceed to protect the children, do you think?

[jinna]

scrummymummy - you are absolutely right that the stress of martial breakdown does skew a persons perception of each other

no she doesn't hit them or abuse them - i can't explain it but her behaviour can seem not right - and she can be very erratic - she looks after the younger child very well but the welfare of the older one seems to be wholly on my brother and i feel she tends to ignore the older one

we have advised him to concentrate on the legal issuses but he is so concerned about the children he doesn't know what to do

[ScummyMummy]

If he's feeling paralysed and unsure about the best course of action then Teamaker's suggestion of Relate- either alone or with your sister-in-law- sounds very good. Or even just an initial trip to the CAB to get a kick start on the legal advice so he starts to feel he's making progress on moving things forward?

Maybe he could also talk to his wife about her going to the GP again or even seeking help from the community mental health team if he thinks she needs considerably more support to cope.

[jinna]

scrummymummy - thanks for that

do you know how you he can get in touch with the community mental health team - does he need to go throught the doctor? the doctor has not been very helpful so far!

the trouble is that my SIL will need to agree to this and although she knows she has problems she will not confess to it and also she thinks my brother is making up things to get custody of the children

at the end of the day the ch are very young and they need their mother and my brother can see this - all he wants to ensure is that my SIL looks after them well

[ScummyMummy]

Your sister-in-law will have to be the one seeking help- unless her problems are so severe that she can be sectioned under the mental health act, which sounds very unlikely from what you have said. She can get access to the community team through the GP but your brother can't do that against her will, though they might agree to have a chat with him about how he can support her. Generally I've found the nurses (CPNs) and social workers in this field to be really excellent and willing to share their knowledge and expertise, so they may be able to reassure him and advise him as to what help is available where, when to worry etc. He'll be able to track down their number via main switchboard at the local authority. Unfortunately, they won't be able to offer support to your sister-in-law directly unless she requests it or is really ill, as I said before.

Are there any mutual and neutral friends who could have a chat with her and reassure her that seeking help for depression is a separate issue from child custody? Also, will she have much support when/if your brother leaves- family, friends etc who will help out? How isolated is she likely to be? If isolation is likely to exacerbate her depression there are voluntary organisations such as Home Start who she might want to contact to arrange a volunteer home visitor. Again it will ultimately be up to her to agree or disagree to pursuing such measures but letting her know what is available is an important form of support too and if your brother or a friend can do this in a non-judgemental, non-pressuring way, reassuring her that it has nothing to do with the kids per se but only her own health, it may be something she will think about doing in her own time. HTH.

[jinna]

thank you scrummymummy - my SIL has got family locally who will help her
my brother has decided to get legal advise and see where he stands- he will also try the GP again and try and get support for her

it is all such an awful business - i really feel for the kids and it breaks my heart to see the family breaking up like this - thank you so much for your advise and support

[wiltshire]

I am with scummy on this, contacting social services is not a bad idea. They don't necessarily come out guns ablazing and cart the kids off. Our neighbours are foster carers and I have learnt alot about this. If your brother is genuinely concerned, then a solicitor IMO would be a waste of money. At least a social workers visit would be on record should there be any further problems.

I would also like to say that in most cases where people split up the fathers family always always think that the mum isn't fit to take care of the kids. It seems to be a family thing. Obviously you are going to take the side of your brother but would also be wise to remember that you never know what goes on behind closed doors. I was a bit like this when my nephew split up with his girlfriend until a year later when I found out that he had been a real shit. I felt awful really as we had all really blamed her.