Where would you move to? London or commuter belt, SEN schools

[Chachachachaha]

We’re looking to relocate from SE Asia to the U.K. in the next year. Housing budget is £1.1m or thereabouts, looking for a four bed house, ideally detached but willing to consider semi/terraced for areas closer in to London. Have two kids- one 3 year old with mild autism (they use the phrase Level 1 ASD here- equivalent to Aspergers) who is currently in an early intervention program, could probably do mainstream primary with support, one (so far) NT one year old. We’re looking for safe, leafy, well connected with fantastic schools and ideally specialist support available. Need to commute to Kings Cross and Westminster, ideally in under 30 min, and have family around Manchester so probably want North London/surrounds for ease.

So far we’ve identified Muswell Hill/East Finchley (but possibly out of budget) and St Albans/Hitchin. Any other ideas really welcome.

Also, for anyone else who has done a similar move, did you find education and location consultants useful?

[LoveJaffaCakes]

I live in London (Hammersmith & Fulham) and many state primaries have good SEN provision. However, a 2 to 3 bed terraced house in this area is now over 1.1 million.

[Winkydink]

To answer your question OP the Independent Schools Inspectorate report for each school lists the number of children with SEN and EHCPs. Beyond that you need to talk to the school, talk to the head of SEN, talk to parents of other children. Buy/subscribe to the Good Schools Guide.

[Sockpile]

This is your LA making up their own rules, which is probably why so many appeals are upheld. Unless the LA can prove one of the above reasons or it’s wholly independent parental preference should be named and then the school must admit the pupil
Yes I agree. It doesn’t always make it all the way to appeal, the space seems to open up before the court cases. However it’s not unusual at that point for LAs to agree to placement but ask parents to provide transport- it’s what happened to us but we pushed for the transport too.

[AReallyUsefulEngine]

To really get the provision you need for your child whether a specialist or support in mainstream you will probably need to appeal your EHCP. IPSEA and SOS!SEN are fantastic places for information- arm yourself with knowledge rather than listening to what the schools/LA tell you.

I second this. LAs will tell you what they want you to know and what they think they can get away with, and too many parents are forced to appeal.

Unless wholly independent the LA must name your preferred school unless they can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

The bar is high, higher than many think and many LAs say, it is more than an “adverse effect”, “impact on” or “prejudicial to”. The LA can, and must unless they can prove one of the above, name the school even if the school object.

The school may agree they can meet need and then your child may be added to the referral list. In Herts this list is based on need so one child may be on the list for two years and another may start the school immediately. Many parents now appeal and that means their children get places and others get pushed further down the list.

This is your LA making up their own rules, which is probably why so many appeals are upheld. Unless the LA can prove one of the above reasons or it’s wholly independent parental preference should be named and then the school must admit the pupil.

[Sockpile]

As a parent you do get the chance to name the school you choose on an EHCP. It’s not as simple as it sounds.

The school may have valid reasons for not being able to meet need - no peer groups, academic levels too high or low.

The school may agree they can meet need and then your child may be added to the referral list. In Herts this list is based on need so one child may be on the list for two years and another may start the school immediately. Many parents now appeal and that means their children get places and others get pushed further down the list.

A mainstream school may be pushed by the LA into taking your child but it doesn’t mean that they will do all they can - resources are scarce and they may try to manage your expensive (in both time and money) child out of the school.

Many of the special needs schools in Herts are not suitable for those who are academically capable. The good news is that there are primary schools opening up specialist resource bases to try to cater for that gap in provision.

Independent schools are an option. Some special independent schools are not section 41 schools, that means you need an agreement from the school before naming it.

To really get the provision you need for your child whether a specialist or support in mainstream you will probably need to appeal your EHCP. IPSEA and SOS!SEN are fantastic places for information- arm yourself with knowledge rather than listening to what the schools/LA tell you.

[Mamma353]

@Elsie2022

@Mamma353 I am sure that the SEN schools 'test well' based on metrics, the mainstream schools in Singapore test even better relative to your average UK mainstream school! The reality is that social attitudes towards SEN needs are v different in SE Asia and that includes Singapore; and my cousin's experience was that he was excluded from mainstream education very early on due to.thus (including from international school).
He went to a special school for most of his education but it wasn't easy to get a space either. He is in mainstream education now as a teen.

@Elsie2022 thanks for your reply.

[Mamma353]

@Chachachachaha

I know this wasn’t to me, but from what I’ve heard and the limited experience I have here, the stereotype is that the U.K. is supposed to have a better philosophy (much more mainstreaming, more inclusive, more ambitious about what autistic people can do) but the practical accessibility of support is harder, while Singapore is seen to have a fantastic range of support which is easy to access if you can afford it, but also tends to have more ABA type therapy and less mainstream acceptance of autism. However, we’ve managed to find some really good support that feels more inclusive here so YMMV.

Thanks for your assessment, @Chachachachaha this is sort of what I've heard too. My worry is that we need to be in the UK to apply for an EHCP, which could take 6 months, possibly longer. So I am not sure what to do during that gap in time when kid is out of EIPIC and not in any structured environment. I'm not keen on mainstream because he needs a lot of support - OT/ST/sensory integration issues/social skills/self care - so he would probably be homeschooled while we wait.

It's so hard isn't it. I'm following the thread as I'm finding the responses quite useful for us too.

[AReallyUsefulEngine]

The problem with not moving by the admissions deadline in Jan 2023 is you will have to make a late application, which is fine, the LA will have to find a placement for DD, but it does mean it may not be one you would have chosen because it will be whichever has space. This applies if you don’t have an EHCP.

With an EHCP admissions aren’t via the normal process. You get to name your preferred school and there are only limited reasons the LA can refuse (with the exception of wholly independent schools where different rules apply - but not all independent schools are wholly independent, some are s.41 independents). So the deadline isn’t as important because the LA cannot refuse to name your preferred school just because they are full. The LA would have to prove they are so full it is incompatible, which is a relatively high bar. However, this is easier for the LA to prove after places have been allocated for everyone else. And for mainstream the child with an EHCP placed after the normal admissions round is an excepted pupil for infant class size regulations. So, an EHCP by January isn’t essential but would probably make it easier if you want a SS.

[Aintnosupermum]

My middle child was diagnosed at 3 and identified at 18 months. My eldest, a girl, was finally diagnosed at 6 after a horrendous time at school where she was assaulted and isolated in a seclusion room (really it was a broom cupboard). I refuse to send my children to public school. Absolutely barbaric place with no discipline or training on how to recover from failure.

We were in the US. Once you have the diagnosis all the help opens up to you and life is grand again. We went private for therapy but we could have moved to NYC and the state would have paid for everything. My husband had his preference and as long as the children got the help they needed I wasn’t going to fight him on it. Personally, high functioning autism is best served in NYC. You don’t ‘need’ to be in Manhattan. Any of the 5 boroughs works. For ease, financial district is a good spot for families as the ymca downtown hosts the special needs camps and provision. They will work with you as NYC funds their program.

The UK has a lot of good provision but you are the driving force behind it. Cheshire has a lot of help compared to most places but yes you are going to have to pay for it. Taxes don’t cover our children so pick and choose carefully. I picked the battle of increasing my income to pay for it all because my high income husband thinks the children don’t need speech, OT or physical therapy. He only thinks they don’t need it because I’ve made sure they get the help they need. Now I pay for it from my bank account. I have a full time nanny who manages their therapy schedules and activities (swim sessions for PT, dance class for eldest for social skills etc etc).

I am taking the children with me to the US and will probably end up in Dallas. They have a good supply of private schools which are somewhat affordable ($30k tuition which is considered a medical expense so tax deductible) because there is no state income tax. My employer offers health insurance for $20k a year which is very reasonable compared to the $130k a year we paid in NYC. Florida is the other state worth looking into because they a provision to support homeschooling where teachers will come to the house.

[Chachachachaha]

@AReallyUsefulEngine

geneticsbunny There are 3y/o’s with so called “mild autism” or undergoing assessment for “mild autism” with an EHCP and in SS or will attend SS from reception. I didn’t say it was easy or that all would need an EHCP/SS, and often it is easier to evidence when older, but it is possible. This is why “mild autism” shouldn’t be used, just because a child has autism that others perceive as “mild” doesn’t mean they do not have significant difficulties. OP qualified the level of need with level 1 autism, but even within that there are obviously going to be differences. Although if OP isn’t moving soon her DC may be 4 anyway &/or looking at placements from reception age.

Which is another point OP, when will DC start primary school? If it is Sept 2023 the normal admissions round (for those without an EHCP) will close in Jan 2023. You want to be living in England by that point otherwise with a late application you will be left with whatever school had places.

Yes, it would be Sept 2023. How important do you think it is to be in the U.K. by that January? I’m worried that if we don’t move by then we’ll struggle to get a school place. Will we also need to have an EHCP by that point?

[Chachachachaha]

@Geneticsbunny

@AReallyUsefulEngine at age 3? Obviously when they are older then yes they might but I think it would be very hard to demonstrate that the additional support needs were high enough to justify it at infants age or below. Although to be honest I am not really sure what the level of needs of the OPs child is if they are described as "mild autism" at age 3 as this isn't something we use in the UK. A bit more info about your child's difficulties would be useful @Chachachachaha and then we can probably help a bit more regarding the type of support they would get in mainstream.

She’s got difficulties in social functioning and interactions, restricted/repetitive behaviours, issues with interoception and self care, and auditory processing issues. She gets overwhelmed easily in busy environments and in her previous preschool wasn’t able to focus or keep up with the rest of the class when overwhelmed. However, she’s really verbal and very academically capable. So quite a spiky profile.

Most of the focus of her early intervention classes has been on social interaction and therapeutic play, teaching her how to interact with peers, how to recognise her own emotions and communicate her needs, that sort of thing. It’s a 1 teacher to 3 pupils setting so very supportive and intensive.

We’re still working out what her needs are and a big question for us is what will actually happen in a larger school environment.

[AReallyUsefulEngine]

geneticsbunny There are 3y/o’s with so called “mild autism” or undergoing assessment for “mild autism” with an EHCP and in SS or will attend SS from reception. I didn’t say it was easy or that all would need an EHCP/SS, and often it is easier to evidence when older, but it is possible. This is why “mild autism” shouldn’t be used, just because a child has autism that others perceive as “mild” doesn’t mean they do not have significant difficulties. OP qualified the level of need with level 1 autism, but even within that there are obviously going to be differences. Although if OP isn’t moving soon her DC may be 4 anyway &/or looking at placements from reception age.

Which is another point OP, when will DC start primary school? If it is Sept 2023 the normal admissions round (for those without an EHCP) will close in Jan 2023. You want to be living in England by that point otherwise with a late application you will be left with whatever school had places.

[Geneticsbunny]

@AReallyUsefulEngine

would be unlikely to qualify for an ehcp and therefore a specialist school place.

This just isn’t true. There are DC all over England with high functioning autism (which is what I presume you mean by ‘mild autism’) who have an EHCP, some of whom are in SS. There are SS who specialise in high functioning autism.

@AReallyUsefulEngine at age 3? Obviously when they are older then yes they might but I think it would be very hard to demonstrate that the additional support needs were high enough to justify it at infants age or below. Although to be honest I am not really sure what the level of needs of the OPs child is if they are described as "mild autism" at age 3 as this isn't something we use in the UK. A bit more info about your child's difficulties would be useful @Chachachachaha and then we can probably help a bit more regarding the type of support they would get in mainstream.

[Aintnosupermum]

For NW, I was looking in Cheshire. The FIRs school in Chester was a good fit for us and the fees are reasonable. For secondary the Grange and kings/Queens looked to be good options for our children as they have the experience of managing gifted children.

I also liked Packwood Haugh a lot.

[AReallyUsefulEngine]

@MozerellaSalad

it is very much the exception in a few areas
the send green paper is clear about the future direction
there will be a national system

Parents may have to appeal but it is possible to get an EHCP with what others are describing as “mild autism” in every LA, and there are pupils with so called “mild autism” in specialist schools all over England.

[5zeds]

Honestly? I’d stay where you are if there’s any way possible. The lived experience of school with children with Sen in the uk is awful and I wouldn’t want that for mine if there was any way out.

[norijunior]

I agreed that the budget for special needs in state schools Hertfordshire is very squeezed. I'm not sure about other areas. If you can afford private (or can fight for an LA funded place) Egerton-Rothesay School could be perfect. If their needs are milder St Columba's in St. Albans is great and St. Albans is lovely.

[Chachachachaha]

@dogschewbones

Camden primaries tend to be very good with autism. Netley if more severe, Kentish Town or Primrose Hill if less, and most others if even less.
secondary is different, but is a long way off for you. I’d start saving for Egerton Rothesay or Abingdon House if I were you…
housing is pricey tho.

Thank you for this. Edgerton Rothesay in particular looks really good.

[Chachachachaha]

@Aintnosupermum

I have shifted my plans to move the children because I wasn’t 100% of the schools being able to meet the needs of my high functioning ASD children. They need OT, speech and physical activity otherwise they are significantly disregulated.

I echo the advice to look at private schools. I found some good options in the NW. I’d keep plugging away to find those schools and then pick the house.

NW of London or NW of England? We’re also considering Manchester. Great schooling options would definitely help make that decision for us!

[Chachachachaha]

@Mamma353

@Elsie2022 I'm really interested in your assessment about Singapore (presumably). I'm a parent with an autistic child in EIPIC, also facing similar decisions on when to go back and where to live in the UK, albeit in a different location. I thought some of the specialist schools were meant to be very good, that some even specialise in autistic kids. Why do you think the UK is miles better? I understand from speaking to therapists that the quality of therapy is similar. Would be interested to learn more.

I know this wasn’t to me, but from what I’ve heard and the limited experience I have here, the stereotype is that the U.K. is supposed to have a better philosophy (much more mainstreaming, more inclusive, more ambitious about what autistic people can do) but the practical accessibility of support is harder, while Singapore is seen to have a fantastic range of support which is easy to access if you can afford it, but also tends to have more ABA type therapy and less mainstream acceptance of autism. However, we’ve managed to find some really good support that feels more inclusive here so YMMV.

[Chachachachaha]

@Spaghetti0

Hi Op.
it must be hard from abroad. These things are hard even when close!
it is very hard to move somewhere with multiple options. Catchment in Muswell hill/Finchley can be 0.3 of a mile. I would consider renting for a year when you return.
it will give you that time to really visit schools and then move accordingly

It’s so hard! And this thread is making it really clear that the provision varies widely from place to place, which makes it even harder. I think I need a very detailed spreadsheet to try and list all this info out . I just wish we could actually visit and get a feel for places. You might be right that renting for a year is the best option- but we need an address for the start of Jan next year to get my daughter into the main admissions round for schools, I believe.

[Chachachachaha]

@Bobbybobbins

I have two DS with autism and know several 'high functioning' children who were diagnosed pre-school so it does happen but I agree it is less likely at the moment.

OP my eldest is in an enhanced resource primary school - in my area they are a bridge type school between full mainstream and a special school. He basically has a programme that is tailored to him, spending half the day with his main stream class and half the day getting individual or small group support.

That sounds like a really good option. Are they common or very specific to certain LAs?

[Chachachachaha]

@Doubleraspberry

I worry, reading your OP, that you will find the UK a very different prospect for your children than you have been used to. It is extremely unlikely for example that a three year old here would have a diagnosis of high functioning autism. The waits for diagnosis are years long, including even obtaining referrals, unless you go private. When you say your child would cope in mainstream with support, what support are you imagining? I’m not meaning to be rude at all but resources are incredibly scarce in many areas, and is funding, so you may not easily get what you think your child needs.

I would be looking closely at your possible areas. Maybe join some SEN parenting groups there. Look at the ratings of the SEND provision. Check out local SEND offers.

Not rude at all. I think the picture in the U.K. is very different to Singapore. There’s a lot of options here and the only gatekeeper is your ability to pay. We got my daughter’s diagnosis and a place in a specialist early intervention program within a few months of her school raising concerns.

She’s just been assessed by a school here that has both an early intervention group and a large mainstream international school, and they think
she can do mainstream with a bit of SLT, some social skills sessions. But we don’t know how that will actually work in practice yet or what she’ll end up really needing.

[Chachachachaha]

@Winkydink

I have a DC with mild autism and private school has been the best option where we live in London. He wasn’t affected enough to qualify for the specialist schools, nor get 1-2-1 TA in a state primary. We went private and paid ourselves for SALT and OT and benefited from the small class sizes. His SALT and OT both did sessions at his school and raved about how it was a brilliant environment for him. (Both professionals spent a lot of time in the local state schools too, so were in a position to compare).

DC is now in a top independent secondary and there are c.15 children with HFA (mild ASD) at their school. They have dedicated sessions every week with the learning support team to check on how they are doing and if any issues they are dealt with quickly and supportively.

That sounds like a really good set up. I think we’d like to find a similar option. How did you find schools that were supportive? Was it advertised as part of their offer or something you had to ask about?

[Elsie2022]

@Mamma353 I am sure that the SEN schools 'test well' based on metrics, the mainstream schools in Singapore test even better relative to your average UK mainstream school! The reality is that social attitudes towards SEN needs are v different in SE Asia and that includes Singapore; and my cousin's experience was that he was excluded from mainstream education very early on due to.thus (including from international school).
He went to a special school for most of his education but it wasn't easy to get a space either. He is in mainstream education now as a teen.