AIBU to be really pissed off?

[kirinm]

I've started this thread in here as it's property related. It's a bit long so best with me.

Me and DP were offered, back in June time last year, some money to help us buy. DP's mum was inheriting quite a large sum of money following a death in the family.

We weren't financially in a place to get a mortgage at that time - never in debt but we knew we were using our current accounts a bit too frequently so we wanted them tidied up before we approached a lender. Anyway, fast forward to December and all our info, bank statements, payslips, DP's statements of accounts (self employed) were sent to my friend who is a financial advisor. We got a rough idea of what we would be lent and started house hunting. You might have seen from other posts that we were concentrating on East London and specifically Leyton / Leytonstone.

Most properties in our budget are flats. During our second week of searching (having already lost out by £65k on a flat) DP got a text from his brother. He told DP that he was a fucking moron to consider buying leasehold, that we were stupid for considering that part of London, that the market is about to crash anyway and generally implied we were too stupid to be trusted. He then started sending links from newspapers that suggested a crash / the end of BTL etc. Then DP's mum started saying that she wasn't sure we should have the money, we can only have it if we buy freehold etc.

Relations broke down and it ended up with us having to email his mum setting out details of the research we'd done into leaseholds, the reality of buying a house in London, why we didn't want to live in the area she is etc, that we'd set up a deed of trust post purchase so she can be sure she'll get her money back.

Despite very little communication we were given the impression the money situation was okay and we should keep looking. We've lost out on 5 flats so far and were reaching the conclusion that we are priced out of our preferred area and so were realistic and planned to start looking at different areas.

We planned to view a house that had come on - a total state but a house, freehold, we'd keep them happy. We've had a few odd messages at the weekend we were meant to view, had we seen it, did we know we would need to do a deed of trust (yes, we suggested it). Anyway, the deposit money gets transferred.

Sunday night DP gets an email from his other brother saying that everyone is uncomfortable with the amount of money being lent, where we plan to buy, what we buy blah blah. But suddenly there is mention of this bring their inheritance and we are putting it at risk, this isn't a gift. All along the same lines of you can't be trusted.

I burst into tears at this point as these emails are fucking us about so much. This isn't just a bit of interference, this is our lives. Buying will drastically reduce our outgoings which gives us the opportunity to have a baby whereas renting just doesn't.

DP's mum claims she didn't know about the email but insists its only because the brothers care about her.

I cannot involve myself in these arguments as they aren't my family but I would love to. I feel insulted, deliberately misled, that they've been dishonest from the outset if this is about money rather than anything else. I'm fuming actually.

AIBU?

[QueenJuggler]

:(

I'm assuming you're on decent salaries since you can afford the mortgage (which isn't small by any means). Is there any prospect of you both making some lifestyle changes that might help accelerate saving for a deposit?

And no, I'm not going to suggest that cutting down on Starbucks will get you there!

The Money and Credit Crunch sections have some good advice....appreciate its really hard, especially when you're working long hours.

[kirinm]

A few thousand but not enough for a deposit hence being offered a deposit.

[QueenJuggler]

It is upsetting - better to find out now though rather than when you've spent money on surveys etc (I always try and find a bright side!).

Do you have any deposit money saved at all - that potentially might still make something cheaper affordable?

[kirinm]

Financial advisor friend - arranged the mortgage etc.

[kirinm]

I'm planning on speaking to my financial advisor to see what we can do but when even new builds are going for in excess of £400k in catford we won't be able to buy much.

We obviously want to buy but we were realistic about our chances gives the costs here. We only started looking because we were being hassled to. The goalposts changed too frequently and it's taken them a few months to finally be honest. That's what I'm upset about.

[QueenJuggler]

Can you buy without the loan? Or is it a complete no-no because you don't have the deposit money at all?

[kirinm]

We can afford the mortgage and aren't 'tight' for money but we can't afford to save £10s of thousands for a deposit which is what you need.

Anyway, I want nothing to do with it anymore. It's a fucking nightmare and I'm struggling to see how I'll ever be civil to the family again given how openly judgmental and offensive they've been (I've just read the latest email which triggered this).

[QueenJuggler]

I would also never enter into an arrangement like this - it's bound to bring nothing but tears and heartache for the OP.

[QueenJuggler]

Quod - since I grew up in Central London, and have spent the majority of my 20+ working years living in London, I am very aware of why people choose to live in London. Albeit I manage a fair chunk of culture even when Sussex based - we go to the theatre in London at least once a month, and the ballet or opera about 5-6 times a year, gigs at least once a month, art galleries and museums at least once a month. But there are many parts of London where you have to commute more that an hour to work door-to-door (the vast majority of suburbia, for example). My commute from Wandsworth was almost an hour if I factor in walking to the bus stop etc. The OP isn't interested in those.

It's easy to make money in a rising market. Many, many people now consider London to be overheated on property prices, and facing a correction. I'm not buying anything in London to add to my portfolio right now - if anything, we're divesting.

Since money is very tight for the OP (or else why would she be in need of a loan), it seems sensible to point that out - it's of little consequence if she intends to stay in this purchase for 10+ years, but if she intends to sell in 3 years to fund a family home, then it would be imprudent not to point that out.

South East prices, BTW, have risen as fast as London over the last 20 years. I wouldn't buy a naice 3 bed many hours from London. But a pretty 3 bed freehold house somewhere pleasant that takes an hour and 15 door-to-door vs a 2 bed leasehold somewhere edgy that takes 45 mins - no contest for me.

My choice - I appreciate the OP might have different priorities.

[Quodlibet]

Queen, there are lots of reasons people choose to live in London apart from the property prices/commuting...the culture, for example.

I would also disagree with you on property timescale and the benefit or not of leasehold flats. I bought a 2 bed leasehold property in London 3 years ago. If I disposed of it now (which I'm not inclined to do; I want to make a long-term home in the London community which I've chosen to live in) I would have doubled our money. PIL's loan to us - which they see as an investment in our property - has effectively led to DP and I amassing £250k of clear equity in 3 years. We could now theoretically cash in, pay off all debts and buy a nice 3 bed mortgage free in suburbia if we so desired.

I'm not going to sell it because having acquired the share of freehold I am now putting two further bedrooms and a WC in my loft, which will give us many more years here if we choose (and will add another £100k to our house value for £45k further investment).

If I'd invested our initial sum in a naice 3 bed many commuting hours from London, I'd likely now have exactly the same minus 3 years off the mortgage.

[ElsieMc]

Money really does bring out the worst in people. I have no doubt her initial offer was made in good faith, but sibling jealousies have arisen that has made her rethink as she is worried about her relationship with her other children. She cannot guarantee them a legacy in the future because of the potential for care costs and they will have thought of this.

My dm died four years ago leaving her house to myself and my brother who was always eaten up with mysterious resentment but the truth was I never ever had a penny off my parents when I bought my first home. The county council placed a charge over her property and it ate up around 80% of the sale proceeds. Not only that, they started charging interest after six months.

I am really sorry for you, but I would not enter into this arrangement it will cause you nothing but heartache.

[QueenJuggler]

Wufflelump Did you mean to be so rude?

I wasn't being rude to the OP, merely pointing out that for most people, they compromise on commuting time to buy something affordable and sensible. Now that the OP has explained that she regularly finishes past 8pm, I think you'll see that I haven't suggested anything so far out.

And if people on MN only agreed with the OP, it would be a very dull place. She asked AIBU, and I answered. That's note rude, it's participative.

FWIW, I'm not wasting my life at all. My commute on the way into work is spent reading books - I read at least a book a week, and it's a precious bit of me-time.

On the way home in the evening, I use the time to educate myself on something. Currently I'm teaching myself to code in HTML. Last year I learnt to speak Arabic. The year before, I managed to use commuting time to complete coursework for an MBA extension module.

Doesn't feel like a waste to me. Only someone would no imagination at all would fail to find something useful to do on the commute - even if its only to sleep.

[Wuffleflump]

"1 hour is nothing for a commute. I work in a very highly paid industry, and many, many people commute for far longer than that. "

You're wasting your life.

See, other people can be judgmental too.

OP has clearly stated that commuting time is a factor in her decision. It might not be your priority, but it's not your life.

[Svalberg]

If you're still thinking of buying, somewhere along the 93 bus route in the Morden/Cheam area would be possible. The 93 stops both at Morden (Northern Line to Bank) and Wimbledon (District to Earl's Court). Search for SM4 on Rightmove. It's in Zone 4.

[kirinm]

Unfortunately she's decided to leave her financial planning to one of the brothers!

[Sunnyshores]

I tink the brothers issues would disappear if they were to be given cash now too. Perhaps DPs mum would also benefit from talking to an inheritance tax expert? This might be a really good time to get it all sorted out and documented.

[kirinm]

Anyway, I'm going to suggest a meeting with DP and his mum as she's now not talking to either of the brothers and had told DP she don't speak to him if he transfers the money back.

[kirinm]

Queen - I obviously understand the benefit of a freehold over a leasehold but I'm not going to do a 3 hour commute daily given that I regularly leave work at about 8pm. I might have a house but I'd be bloody miserable commuting.

[QueenJuggler]

Freehold always beats leasehold for resale value.

It is a lovely house. I might hop over and see it myself!

[QueenJuggler]

1 hour is nothing for a commute. I work in a very highly paid industry, and many, many people commute for far longer than that.

The challenge with many parts of London is that they aren't exactly desirable, and prices are artificially high. My husband works in the property industry (albeit on a large scale), and his POV (along with many in his industry) is that unless your budget buys something that you will keep for 10+ years, many parts of London, especially in East London, are hugely overpriced, and are likely to experience significant price drops in the coming couple of years. Leaving you potentially in negative equity. If that's something that doesn't bother you, then fine. But it's not unreasonable for someone lending you money to be concerned about.

Rather depends on where in East London - e.g. is it an area with good schools etc.

If you can't see the difference between a 3-bed house (freehold), where you might be able to raise a young family for many years to come, and a 2-bed flat (leasehold), where you might struggle a bit more, I might suggest that you don't understand enough about what you're investing in.

[smellylittleorange]

Sounds stressful OP think DH also needs to sit down with MIL and talk about her concerns without the brothers interfering. If he can assuage them then she will be less likely to.talk about her concerns to them ...less of the family bingo drum effect!
Have you considered Worcester Park ? It is zone 4 twenty mins to Waterloo and easy commute to Earls Court via Wimbledon. I moved down to the South coast many years ago but lived in Leytonstone then moved to Worcester Park to be back with my family ..my mum still lives there.

[Quodlibet]

Have a look at Camberwell - some surprisingly affordable flats and a bus ride to Bank, bus and tube to Earls court.

[BlueStringPudding]

Roehampton? 2 bed house here with garden for £410k - www.primelocation.com/for-sale/details/38878185?search_identifier=fea6959fd62442cc31c1a665efadf2bb#QteVHhjesFmbCC4r.97

Was thinking Putney from what you said, as that has good links to Waterloo via mainline, and to Earls Court via District Line, but this is a bit further out - still might be worth a look though..

[kirinm]

Queen - that's a lovely house though! Far too close to the in-laws.

[kirinm]

It's not really la la land to want to be commutable. Why on earth would we choose Shepperton over E. London when we are talking about the same budget?

I don't think we would be at risk of 'frittering' the money away either. This isn't a short term buy. We were / are prepared to stay wherever we buy for 5-10 years and are happy to weather out any crash should it arise.