Neighbours attic conversion

[Edinburghlass99]

Help... Advice needed. I live in a four in block built in the 1930's. The maintenance of the roof has always been split between the four flats. Upstairs neighbour put in for planning permission to convert attic with dormer front and back, which they duly got (planning permission is a civil matter not a legal).
Believing that I owned a quarter share (the burden's state share of maintenance and title deeds state pro indiviso share of solum) of the roof, I informed them that I would not be signing over my title to the roof. This is the position that it has sat at for months... Until today, came home from work to find scaffolding in my front garden and builders preparing to knock a hole in the roof.
Spoken to neighbour who has said that their title deeds are silent on the attic space so their solicitor has informed them that the tenements act applies and the roof is theirs. They've also said that they have a right of access to my garden for maintenance and they can put scaffolding up for the next six weeks. My small garden will now be out of commission for dd for the start of summer.
At my wits end, don't really have the finances to go through a long court battle, I thought the pro indiviso share of the solum meant they couldn't break through the roof.... Think they've been humouring me and plotting the process behind my back for months because I'm a single mum and that I'll just accept it - Grrr.
Can anyone advise what my next step should be, recognising that I don't want to incur thousands of pounds in legal expenses.... Thanks so much...

[Edinburghlass99]

Hi noddy, in Scotland so I think everything is freehold..

[Edinburghlass99]

AnnieMoor: yes I did object. Made lots of relevant points regarding overlooking, not complying with local plan etc - however it would seem that they needed 6 objections before they would have considered refusing.

[AnnieMoor]

What! 6? That's outrageous.

I feel really sorry for you, but knowing how this is likely to go, I'd worry that if you manage to stop the work now, you might end up with it going on all summer instead.

[RustyParker]

So they want to completely change the roof to add space and value to their property but still want you to be jointly liable to maintain said roof??

I'm shocked at the way some people behave. I hope you manage to at least halt the scaffolding and work until you get good advice or representation.

[prettybird]

How distressing for you. Do you have a factor or do you self-factor? The factor might be able to say what normally happens with maintenance of roof structures that have been converted.

[Edinburghlass99]

RustyParker - yes, someone mentioned it to me at work. They get to add value to their property whilst the other owners in the block get no benefit - only a summer of mayhem. In a casual conversation months ago upstairs think they'll make circa £20k after deducting the cost of the conversion. Though even if they offered a share, it's not about the money. Simply, I want to maintain the integrity of the roof. It's part mine, when I bought the flat my purchase cost reflected the fact I bought a 1/4 share of a roof!

[Edinburghlass99]

Prettybird, unfortunately there is no factor arrangement in place. The burdens on the title simply state that we share responsibilty for certain common items - roof being one

[LondonGirl83]

I think the previous owner was asking why you object to converting the attic. Why not reach an agreement so their deed reflects that they are responsible for roof maintenance due to the conversion.

It sounds like you and your neighbours fundamentally disagree about what your legal rights are so why not just address what the underlying concern is rather than try to block the work.

I know its emotional but try to step back and be pragmatic. Also, six weeks from you original post is the end of April so hardly the beginning of summer. Ask yourself if your anger has actually made you see any of the other facts with some bias / hyperbole...

[BearsAndAngels]

I was going to suggest they 'buy you out' of your share of the roof, but to do that the roof should have some value. Actually it sounds like the roof is a burden rather than an added value, so I agree with LondonGirl83 the outcome should be that they legally take the 'burden' of the roof.

Are there any other possible impacts to you - ie will changing the roofline devalue (or add value to) your actual apartment? Assuming the only impact is the roof maintenance, then I would push for that outcome.

[thatsmadted]

"Ring the police" .

Don't ring the police! You do need legal advice though. At the very least, you need to know that their architects and structural engineers are properly insured and that the freeholder / you are getting the benefit of warranties for defective workmanship.

The freeholder should also be getting a chunk of money for giving up the roofspace. Technically, the freeholder could have exploited the opportunity and built up and sold off with the profits being shared between you. This loss of opportunity has a value.

These people are great and will give you very sensible free advice. This is a specialist area so Citizens Advice etc won't be able to help.

Good luck!

[PrimalLass]

We don't have freeholders in that way in Scotland.

[LondonGirl83]

Also, do they not have any rear windows in their flat? If they do, then they shouldn't be overlooking you anymore than before.

[spark100]

Hi EdinburghLass,
I don't think I'll be popular here but I bought a top floor flat in Glasgow with fleeting ideas of potential loft conversion.
It seems to me that the 2004 law says, whether the deeds are silent or not, the top flat owner can do what they like in the loft above their home, as long as they don't impair the secure protection of the roof or build anything that juts out in any way, which would require planning permission.
Would I really be regarded as a bully if I sought to put a bedroom in my loft with Velux windows that are of a high standard and secure?
If my neighbours refused permission for me to put up scaffolding for a week or two, would they not be the bullies?
If the law states that the owners are jointly responsible for the upkeep of the roof, that's the law, it seems to me.
I get on very well with my neighbours as it stands - not looking forward to falling out but I think I'll get the hump if they say I can't put up scaffolding.
I sincerel hope you found some middle ground on this.
Did you get a resolution?

[OrangeVase]

I'd be interested to hear what happened OP?

No knowledge of particualr problem but also live with bullying neighbours who have built a house in defiance of planning refusal ad part on my land. In the end they do what they want.

[hedgehog01]

As a starting point I would write to them refusing permission to use your garden. I don't know if this is possible, but I would try to be around in case they do it sneakily when you're out. If they do turn up, call the police. Once scaffolding is there it will be very difficult to get rid of.This will hopefully buy some time on the legal front, especially if you do happen to have legal cover. They only have permission to insist on scaffolding for maintenance, as another poster points out.

Also, legal action doesn't have to escalate into a £10k bill overnight. Yes, it's expensive, but a strongly worded letter may cause your neighbours concern. Failing that, you could also use the potential dispute as a threat to your neighbours re difficulty of selling down the line.

I know exactly where you are coming from re disruption and stress for their gain. They also sound hugely inconsiderate and I can see no reason why you should be walked over at this early stage.

My understanding (English law though) is that unless your deeds specifically say you own something, you don't and would need to purchase those rights from your fellow freeholders. I am not legally qualified but have gone through something similar.

[hedgehog01]

Have you talked to your neighbours in your building and discussed future liability re roof and windows? Even if they get good builders in, any kind of problem is likely to end up being your responsibility when neighbours move on and building work guarantee runs out/ builders company folds?

What about damage to the communal parts when builders are carrying materials in and out. Has that been discussed?

Have fire regulations been considered? Sometimes sprinkler systems are insisted upon to to conform to these; what if it malfunctions and floods your flat/ your neighbours?

If they are aware of issues, could you unite against them?