buying a house on a council estate - how to suss out neighbours?

[patagonia09]

We've put an offer in on a house we like, which is on a council estate in south london. I think about 95% of it is still council owned, and almost all of the gardens are in a pretty poor state (overgrown), the state of the curtains and doors in most houses indicates the people living there are on pretty low income, and I'm starting to feel a bit put off.
To clarify, I don't think being on a low income makes you a bad person. But people who are troubled (addictions, mental health problems, etc) tend to end up on low incomes because they can't hold down employment and subsequently get dumped on undesirable estates by the council, given no support, and can end up being troublesome. The one thing I can't bear is NOISY NEIGHBOURS, and my worst nightmare is living somewhere surrounded by late night parties, drunk fights, etc.
Am I being a total snob? Or am I just being realistic? And most of all, is there any way to find out more before we go ahead with the sale? I contacted the council to ask if there was a history of complaints about noise in the area but they were totally unhelpful.

[mulranno]

I think that if you are having reservations now before you buy -- think about the problems you will have selling it on in the future. It might prove to be a a really poor investment. You are not being a snob - everyone has aspirations to live in the best place they can afford. I am sure that even if the estate is wonderful - the people there would love to move on and "upwards" - that's why it called a property ladder....just the same as I am keen to shift my large detached in an exclusive village to live on my own country estate (wink)

[Emsy1449]

I used to live in a privately owned flat in London but the flat above was council. The family were awful, the Dad was always yelling, the kids noisy (parents never took them out so it seemed, not even to nearby park), they constantly put sanitary towels down loo and blocked drains. We paid to have shared garden done up and they didn't maintain it. They were horrid. I moved.
Appreciate not all council tenants are like this.

I also have a friend who lives on a London council estate and always has gangs hanging around - intimidating to me. She has a baby and it's not where I would want to bring up my kids.

Personally I would not buy, but that's just me and maybe I am a snob

[Flossiechops]

There are massive differences from one council estate to the next. Over grown gardens and shabby looking houses would have me running without looking back tbh.

[OneStepCloser]

It's ok Just, I'm stepping away from the PM,

[OneStepCloser]

No Bowlersarm, we're not that would be bloody scary!

[BMW6]

I must be a total snob, because overgrown gardens and tatty curtains etc would be a dealbreaker for me.

(was born in and lived my first 24 years in Council House on an Estate)

[JustThisOnceOrTwiceOrThrice]

I was so confused for a moment

[Bowlersarm]

Are you vendor and purchaser patagonia and onestep ??? That would be a coincidence.

[OneStepCloser]

justThis

[OneStepCloser]

have pm you.

[JustThisOnceOrTwiceOrThrice]

That link was very interesting.

[patagonia09]

OneStep - that's very kind, but what if you're the person selling the house we put the offer on? That would be awkward....!

[OneStepCloser]

Patagonia, I know South London very well, have an ex local authority house on an estate here, if you pm me location as I'd rather not give it out, we can see if it is the same one.

[FruitSaladIsNotPudding]

I wouldn't write it off for being on a council estate, but you are right to worry about the poor state of the surrounding houses. I think it likely that if your neighbours don't keep their house in a decent state of repair (I'm not talking Showhome condition here!), then they may not care about others social niceties, like not making too much noise etc.
Huge generalisation of course, but you kind of have to go with your instincts when buying a house.

[BurberryQ]

never mind what it is like at different times, your real issue will be your immediate neighbours. my flat on a south london estate was lovely except for the mentally ill upstairs neighbour who would clean his 'yard' by throwing buckets of water over it, until we had water dripping through the light fittings......

[exexpat]

It is true that even 'posh' areas can be noisy - my area is relatively expensive, but it is also close to the university, which means there are a lot of student houses around. There are very loud parties, particularly at the beginning and end of term, and I can regularly hear loud groups of people in the street at 2 or 3am at weekends - not fighting, just drunk and inconsiderate.

[patagonia09]

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond. I'm trying to get round there as often as I can to see what it's like at different times. I just know that if we don't go for this place and buy somewhere else, no doubt we'll end up in a nice posh street with some real noisy arseholes next door!

[exexpat]

I would say basically, if you are unsure about an area, don't do it. You know what they say about location, location, location... There is nothing worse than being trapped in a house or area you don't feel comfortable or safe in.

Having said that, if you don't want to dismiss it out of hand, all the advice above about going round on Friday/Saturday nights etc is good. Also, have you checked on the police website which lets you check crime by postcode? It can be a bit alarming as it initially gives you all crimes within a one-mile radius - my 'posh' area near the centre of a city had about 1,500 crimes in August, apparently, but then the one-mile radius covers some pretty busy nightlife areas and one area with a bit of a drug/prostitution problem - but you can use the map to narrow it down more specifically to the group of streets you are interested in. Then try the same with a similar-sized chunk of the area you are in now to see how they compare.

You might also want to try googling the names of the street you are buying on and a few neighbouring ones for local newspaper court reports - they usually give the address of the offender, minus the house number. That might give you an idea of whether there is anyone nearby who is likely to cause problems with drugs, assault, burglaries etc.

[gamerchick]

I live on a council estate and it's pretty quiet.

Walk around the estate at night on a weekend for a few weeks and see what it's like.

[Bumblequeen]

I would not live on a council estate for reasons mentioned above. I may be generalising here but find people tend to care less about their homes/outside environment when they are renting.

I know a few people that live on council estates and they have no trouble neighbours. I just would not take the risk.

[jellybeans]

I have lived in council, private rent and owned estates and there are bad neighbours everywhere. I agree though that this is more likely in council estates because 'problem families' tend to live in these areas. However most people are lovely genuine and normal and many elderly having lived there from the 50s. On the plus side most people I know who have had neighbours evicted are in council as there are procedures for getting rid of antisocial tenants. Long process though. . In summary I would only buy ex council if it was a good area with good immediate neighbours. A few 'dodgy types' round the corner wouldn't bother me but right next door would.

Isn't there some rule now where the seller has to be honest about problem neighbours? maybe ask them? Also definitely agree with driving and walking round at various times. School pick up times and Fri/Sat nights especially. That's when my problem neighbours of the past were noisiest. Ask people to ask people they know about the area, ask on social networks etc. Check how popular the area is as well in case you need to sell. So I think be cautious but maybe you will be fine.

[JustThisOnceOrTwiceOrThrice]

I have heard that there are nice estates, one my friend lives on seems ok. My own experience means i would never buy on one if i could help it.

Drugs, dealing, groups of young men intimidating people, fights, driving of those mini motorbike things on pavements, junk dumped everywhere, front gardens full of mattresses etc, old people bullied, stabbings, robberies . . .

It only takes a few horrible families to ruin an estate (or one if they live next door to you).

You never know, the one you are looking at might be the exception.

[BurberryQ]

just do not buy it, it is not worth it, there is a reason why it is 'cheap' - you will only find out what a place is really like by living there for some time.
I have lived on two council estates, and would not go near one now, not for anything.
no offence to the good people of the estates.....

[ouryve]

It's definitely worth driving - or even walking around at different times of day. If you don't feel safe at a time you'd normally want to be out and about, that should be a warning.

The estate we walk through on the way to school is ex council and a mixture of privately owned, private rental and HA. Some of the houses are immaculate and the people who live there lovely. There's some I can't walk past fast enough, with regular shouting matches going from door to door. There's broken glass and dog dirt on the pavements and regular episodes of young men driving around on dirt bikes or quad bikes (including at school run time ). You couldn't pay me to live there, if I had the choice.

That said, there's a violent drug user used to live at the end of our terrace of mostly private houses (recently evicted) and the Boswells have set up their own version of Steptoe's yard at the other end. (Only they have more vehicles than the Boswells did)

[FriendlyElephant]

I think you can get problem neighbours anywhere. If the neighbours are unemployed then you could argue that they might be more likely to be up late drinking and whatever, but lots of working people also enjoy noisy parties, or noisy DIY, or have noisy children, and not everybody works 9-5, monday to friday.

I live in a council house, most of the area is council although my neighbours on all sides are privately owned, but I've had no problems whatsoever.

Plus, even if your neighbours are brilliant now, there's no telling who might move in later on!