Loft conversion- should we?... (sorry, long and rambly!)

[Erebus]

Or would you say, like my mum did 'Why on Earth do you need another room?'

We have a 4 bedroom, 2 bathroom detached, 12 years old, and 2 x DSs, 10 and 12.

The problem, such as it is, is we 'only' have one, large living room with what we use as a study area at one end. It opens into a dining room (kitchen opens onto it so it serves as 'the kitchen table', really) that opens into a conservatory. This works fine now as the DSs do their homework at the dining room table whilst I cook dinner, for instance. However, the dining table is constantly covered in crap books, papers drawings etc etc.

We have an integral garage but it too is filled with rubbish bikes, tools, paint, mowers, camping kit and so on. BUT that'd have to stay as we have nowhere else on the property to conveniently store all that.

Though we have a 'spare room', it isn't very big and it is filled with detritus books, games, toys, 2 set up sewing machines, a keyboard, a guitar, most of which is housed on the biggest size Ikea Expedit unit. Both boys actual bedrooms aren't very big. They hold: A single bed, an Aneboda (ikea) wardrobe and chest of drawers, a chair and a bedside table. The remaining space on the floor is, essentially 3 foot alongside their beds. I had considered cabin beds with a desk beneath but it struck me that though they are a very good idea, they are perhaps more for a 'really stuck for space' house which we shouldn't be (-We so have been in the past!).

Guests bunk down on the living room sofa bed which is a bit daft in a 4 bedroom house!

THING IS: We could probably afford a loft conversion to a single big room and plumb for if not install a bathroom up there now but not for much longer (we are both knocking 50). We wouldn't need to borrow and have no mortgage. In this area we should get its cost returned in added value. The reality is that there is every probability that the boys will be at home til they're well into their 20s. They will probably go to college from home rather than live in digs. Neither are 'friend mad' so I'm not looking to create a hang-out space for all the neighbouring kids BUT I am being told that it would be good for them to have a place to study other than the dining room table, a place where currently Lego could be upended and not picked up every evening; a place where the football table could be erected etc etc. It'd also be our guest room and would possibly have another TV in it. I anticipate that siting the stairs would chop out space in the current smallest bedroom so that DS would move into the 'hobby' room, leaving us with his old room as a small 4th bedroom BUT with a big loft space above.

Would you? I have a bloke quoting right now on the job but I anticipate it'll come in at £25,000+.

My reservation is/are:
Are we 'unbalancing' the house having essentially 5 bedrooms but still only one conventional living room and a single garage? Whilst you don't know my family, do we risk creating an environment where we never see the boys as they're up in the loft? Will I tire of 2 sets of stairs (though a tall, narrow 3 storey town house we rented for 6th months was a lot less hassle than I thought it'd be!). Or will I trill will delight each time I go up there (to sew, probably!) as the light floods into my spacious, airy sanctuary?!

If someone gave me £25,000 I think I'd do it in a trice but... should we be putting that sort of money into retirement funds?!

I don't know!

[Erebus]

Thanks chat and plup.

The roof isn't being redone at all! Just 6 dormer windows placed in it. I think £45k is rather steep, too. I mean, the bare faced fact is we won't increase the value of the house by £50k (the 'finished' price) as it STILL only has one large (2 connected-rooms) 'living space', and one single, integral garage.

The next line of enquiry (apart from getting 2 more quotes) is to see if the council will sell us a 1m strip of land alongside the house. Then we could access around the side properly with a 1.6 m opening as opposed to the 60cm we currently have. That way we could use the shed for a fair bit of the necessary garage-stuff storage and free up the garage to convert it as it is, despite only being 12 years old, too small for our car!

Without an alternative, other storage space, the conversion of the garage would leave us with a too-small new 'living room' with a (not yet installed) window fronting a 6' fence and the sheer wall of the neighbour's house.

[plupervert]

How big/wide is your garage? I ask because many garages are useless for modern cars, and since on-street parking is so prevalent, you could be losing something that cannot be used and which no-one would miss. The last two places I have lived in with garages would simply not fit our car (estate).

Light need not be an issue for the "former" garage: you would have a front wall (fronting the driveway), and there may be plumbing in there would could allow you to turn it into a kitchen/utility room, with access to the garden so you could use it to pass through with bikes, etc. Otherwise, you could split it in two, add storage in the front for bikes, then have the room "behind" as a separate diner/study/quiet room, with proper storage for indoor things.

[ChitChattingWithKids]

Are you redoing the roof at all? £45,00 is a little on the high side if you're not changing the roof line. I would have thought £30,000 -£35,000.

Try another few builders first before you give up.

[Erebus]

Well, sadly, the loft won't be happening as the quote came in at £45,000 exclusive of painting and carpeting and sanitary ware. So £50k to create a rumpus room. I don't think so!

[Erebus]

Good point. I will be very interested in seeing how much more space I am able to create by being ruthless with the chucking out. We have got rather a lot BUT the reason is we arrived in the UK 8 years ago with nothing so, via Freecycle, ebay, Ikea and the Dump, we amassed a household of stuff. Then 3 years ago, we got all our stored stuff shipped from Oz to the UK, apparently judiciously sorted by DH (!) but, as you can imagine, a huge amount of duplication. I have done a lot of work in choosing the best of each and disposing of the other but we still ended up with a lot of 'extra' stuff we don't need here and now but which is too good to dispose of AND will 'come' when the present item dies or wears out.

I'd agree that ideally the extra space would be better utilised downstairs- I will be very interested in hearing what the council have to say on Monday about the faint possibility that we can buy a strip of land from them. That would change the Game Plan a lot- the ability to create a decent, brick built shed with proper access on that side of the house for the garage stuff, then we can convert the garage. But currently, the legal access around that side of the house is literally 60cms wide (OK, we 'use' more in that there's no fence before you get into the council's 'nature strip' so we can sweep wider but I wouldn't dare presume anything esp in putting in say bike storage- then find we can't get the bikes in or out!).

[OriginalPoster]

Going off at a tangent a little...

I notice that you mention several times that the space you already have is being encroached on by rubbish, crap and detritus

This may be because you need to clear out 'hidden' junk in cupboards, garage, drawers etc, so that there is some where easy to put away the things you use a lot.

A good clear out might help, so that you are not paying for space to house stuff you no longer love, need or use.

We moved from a house with less downstairs space (dining room, living room, kitchen) and a great loft conversion (master bedroom ensuite), and 3 other reasonable bedrooms, and one poxy one. We have 4 dcs and the fact we were all in one room mainly downstairs was getting harder.

If there is anyway you can get the space downstairs I would say it is preferable.

[Erebus]

Ah, OK, I understand! They may have built under a different code. Good point.

[tyler80]

I'm talking about building control regulations not planning. Planning should be fairly straightforward.

Building controls regulations are the same across the country and have changed over the past decade. Just something to be aware of in case you visit the neighbouring house and then find you can't build something identical.

[Erebus]

Thanks, all, for further input! The ishoo with the sticky out bit of bedroom 2 is that the bit behind it where the loft stairs would start is our ensuite! The builder who quoted sucked in through his teeth when he suggested that and I alerted him to the possible problem!

Here the council have bunged in the PP rule that you now need to get PP for velux windows, that's all, thankfully. Should be OK esp as no one will overlook the velux windows in the loft.

[tyler80]

Be aware that the regulations have changed quite a lot over the last ten years, what was permissible then may not be permissible now.

[minipie]

I would definitely do it.

I wouldn't worry about the house being unbalanced. You have 2 reception rooms (one living one dining) and a largeish kitchen from the look of it, plus a conservatory. That's pretty decent living space.

There are loads of victorian terraces near me which have a reception, then a second reception/dining, then a large kitchen, all on the ground floor. No They then have 5 beds upstairs (one of which is loft conversion). They work absolutely fine for living space and are much in demand. (And they have no garage or conservatory either usually).

I think you will get lots of use from the extra space. If I were you I would leave the boys' rooms where they are, use bedroom 2 as a lovely sanctuary for guests and your own study/sewing area, and make the loft room into a homework/den area. If you're worried about them being too far away then swap those round and make the loft the guest room/sanctuary.

However, I would get a few second opinions on where to put the stairs. I don't see why you should have to chop off part of bedroom 4. For example why can't they double back on the existing staircase, so effectively you lose the sticky-out bit of bedroom 2 instead.

[Erebus]

KNOCK on the door, of course, redhelen

[Erebus]

aye aye, tyler! Geddit?!

[Erebus]

Out of politeness, I think I'd need to see his quote and be sure I'm serious before we went door-knocking, as it were!

However, I am going to know on the door of the first house in the close which is identical to ours as they have a loft conversion, done by my 'quoting' company but maybe 10 years ago, they say. I really want to know where they put their stairs!

[tyler80]

Phone not i

[Erebus]

tyler- your posts have an interesting habit of repeating themselves ! iphone?!

The apex runs along the long axis of the house!

I know I will need a fire door- it will either have to be at the foot of the stairs as a vestible for the bottom of the stairs (so across the small 'new' corridor if we don't go 'open plan' on the small bedroom left, or at the top of the stairs).

My 'hope' would be that we'd 'break even' in resale which won't be for years as this house is a school-catchment purchase. I am actually watching that other 'identical' house with interest as they're asking £24k more than we paid for this 2 years ago. Regarding resale, I'd hope that an agent could 'sell' the idea of that small room or ease of making the area into a small room as being 'a nursery'.

The -I'd say- 'unfortunate' fact is we are still building houses today that suit an earlier lifestyle- like, to be honest, 'the study' (if it's not an actual 'office', I mean). With wifi and laptops, 'the study' is wherever there's a flat space to open the laptop! But as for space for 2 generational living in big enough homes... (either DCs who can't afford to leave home or older parents needing assistance) And building separate dining rooms?!

[RedHelenB]

Why not look at some that have been done in your street & then decide as the builder suggests?

[tyler80]

2.3m is about the minimum, does your apex run along the short or the long length you quoted?

Not sure what you mean about the open space where the stairs are, fire regs mean you're likely to have to have a fireproof door to that room or second flight of stairs.

If you see this as an investment for your family then spend the money, I'd be wary of seeing it as an investment you'll recoup further down the line.nimum, does your apex run along the short or the long length you quoted?

Not sure what you mean about the open space where the stairs are, fire regs mean you're likely to have to have a fireproof door to that room or second flight of stairs.

If you see this as an investment for your family then spend the money, I'd be wary of seeing it as an investment you'll recoup further down the line.

[Erebus]

I see your point but in some ways I am thinking we will be gaining more than another bedroom. I actually intend 'sacrificing' that 2.2m square 'new room' as a room as it is too small to be Arthur or Martha- I am thinking I will leave it as an open space that you will access from the existing landing and off it will come the stairwell to the loft. I would 'desk' around the walls and make it into a study and book storage area. This would free up the 'study' area currently taking up one end of the living room (look at photo 2 of the 'identical house'- see where the door swings open and the sofa is under the window? That's a big area!)

The loft room, in total would be 8.5m long and 4.7m wide with a corner removed for the bathroom. It'd be a play room/teenagers retreat/spare room/hobby room. I am not entirely sure how high the the headroom up there would be- the apex is 2.3m above the rafters but I don't know how far to the L and R of the apex you'd go before hitting a 6 foot 'head'! (We're both 5'6" so less of a problem!).

Thanks for the input.

[tyler80]

You're not really gaining a bedroom if the conversion turns one room into something that's 2.1m by 2.1m.

Your house is already top heavy as the garage eats into the downstairs floor area.

I think loft conversions can work really well in older properties, they generally have a lot more roof space. Modern properties don't tend to have the height to create spacious rooms once you've added floor, insulation, cladding etc.You're not really gaining a bedroom if the conversion turns one room into something that's 2.1m by 2.1m.

Your house is already top heavy as the garage eats into the downstairs floor area.

I think loft conversions can work really well in older properties, they generally have a lot more roof space. Modern properties don't tend to have the height to create spacious rooms once you've added floor, insulation, cladding etc.

[Erebus]

I am cheating here in that this isn't my house, however it is identical to mine as there are rather a few like it in and around Eastleigh!

here

Look at the floor plan, first floor: look at the top left bedroom (4). See where its doorway is? Well, that would now go and a wall would be built across from the front of the bathroom to the outer wall (obv. with a doorway in it for access!), making bedroom (4) 2.2m square. Instead, you'd walk along this (new) short corridor, then turn left and double back on yourself to walk up the loft stairs that would rise up over 'W' and 'C' (W is the built in wardrobe in bedroom 2 and 'C' is a cupboard off the hall). The loft bathroom would go in above bedroom 4 and the rest would be open space.

I still 'get' the 'unbalanced thing' though Rightmove reveals some 'interesting stuff' around here, eg five bedrooms/one sitting room

what do you think?

I have also asked the council IF there is any possibility of buying a 1m wide strip of land off them to make access to the right hand side of our house to the shed which MIGHT make doing a garage conversion viable, but I don't like my chances! Bear in mind the plot of the 'identical' house is different to mine.

[ChitChattingWithKids]

No, you wouldn't be throwing good money after bad by demolishing the conservatory. You need to cost up how much it would cost to get everything you want in a new house (difference in house value, cost of moving, stamp duty, etc) and then decide whether it is worth spending a proportion or all of that doing up your house to how YOU want it. Just because you might be spending more on it than you might get back if you sell it now, that isn't the point of it, you are not a property developer. You are making the house fit for YOUR purposes. As long as you don't spend more than you would buying a new house, you would be doing fine.

[Erebus]

Yes, re the mess!

We had our 2 big downstairs rooms Artex sanded and skimmed. I had so steeled myself to the horror and the plaster dust for evermore but in fact, though I did have to wash the wooden floor four times, literally, one time after the next, that was it, so we got away with it lightly.

Am awaiting the quote with interest!

[Terpsichore]

We had our loft converted (in a classic London terrace), and were very happy with it. We didn't want a bathroom up there as it was always going to be used as an office/sitting-room space, not a bedroom. When we sold it, everyone commented on what a great space it was. No real down-points in those terms.

I'd just point out the amount of hideous mess involved, though. I'm sure you've factored that in, but if you're going to be living there while it happens, there will be dust everywhere. It's not for the faint-hearted or house-proud. I'm not really one of the latter but it did get to me far, far more than I'd ever expected!

[Erebus]

Anyone else with any thoughts, please?