My ds (7) is in year 2 and doesn't know his alphabet

[Peaceflower]

Is this unusual and does it even matter?

He is in the top Reading group, second top writing group, and top spelling group.

He knows all the letters, but just never learned the right order of the alphabet. It seems odd to me, because it was the first thing I learned when I started school.

Anyone else's dcs the same?

[ChocHobNob]

My eldest is 4 and he knew his alphabet when in Playschool from 2. I've now noticed he seems to have "forgotten" it. I assumed it was down to the focus on phonics. He knows all of his letter sounds when asked though.

[MumNWLondon]

why does it matter? I have heard 3 year olds singing the alphabet song despite having no idea what they are singing. its rote learning and not useful

[DilysPrice]

Here Come the ABCs by They Might Be Giants is a reasonably adult-friendly album/DVD of alphabet songs (the follow ups, Here Come the 123s and Here Comes Science are even better). They've got us through some very long car journeys.

[mrz]

I certainly wasn't taught that way 3point14 and definitely not the way children are taught today.

[3point14]

Don't you transpose the letters for numbers so that J is 10 and T is 20 and so forth ?

If you don't how do you deal with ciphers and similar ?

When I was a child this was normal. We had it drilled into us every day and nigh on 40 years later I do not have to think for times table or alphabet answers.

Is it because the teachers do not know ?

[Jane054848]

I am 34 and still have to sing the little alphabet song to get some letters in the right order.

[mrz]

When do you need to know alphabetical order? dictionaries phone directories filing systems etc...

[OtterInaSkoda]

I remember stumbling with the alphabet when I was a sixer in Brownies (so I must have been 8 or 9 I imagine). I don't think singing it to the tune of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, as we were all taught, helped - the elemenohpee bit gets mangled. We were taught a different tune at Brownies which made it far, far clearer.

I was a very good reader, so my lack of aplhabet skills said nothing about my literacy.

Soooo in essense, I wouldn't be too worried.

[mrz]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=uavlzZhJFVQ&feature=related
not very catchy ...

[Peaceflower]

lolapoppins, his reception teacher was very understanding, although I was taken aside one day to say ds had been disruptive at carpet time, calling out and fidgeting. Luckily for me, a lot of the teacher's focus and attention was being directed to another boy who was subsequently diagnosed as adhd.

At playgroup, the playgroup leader/assistants were also very relaxed, and let him do what he wanted.

Although ds is coping with school now, he is struggling with handwriting (dyspraxia) and feels frustrated and restrained in class. School is trying to help by letting him use a computer for writing tasks.

[Devexity]

helyg - ha! Perhaps there is some sort of catchy reading comprehension song I could learn.

And real-music mothers: Have you experienced the awesomeness of the They Might Be Giants oeuvre for children? Podcasts! Youtubery! The sun is a mass of incandescent gas! Blissful.

[lolapoppins]

Peaceflower - out of interrest, how did school react to your ds not wanting to learn?

We took ds out and homeschooled him half way through reception, we had hell with pre school and the first term of reception.

[helyg]

Devexity: no we didn't sing it, we were too busy singing Dau Gi Bach and Mi Welais Jac y Do. As I said earlier, there is no alphabet song in Welsh, you try fitting this to a tune:

A B C Ch D Dd E F Ff G Ng H I L Ll M N O P Ph R Rh S T Th U W Y

[mrz]

You can put the alphabet and nursery rhymes to pop music it doesn't have to be the traditional tune. Whatever appeals!

[lolapoppins]

Brilliant! We have ds on video singing ring of fire on kareoke when he was two, he loves watching it back now.

I think the Killers should release an ABC single, or an album of nursery rhymes, my ds would probably have been interrested then!

Seriously though, the amount of crappy remarks I got from parents because we listened to real music in the car/at home as opposed to kids CDs was unreal. It got ds interrested in playing guitar and piano.

[Peaceflower]

lolapoppins, that sounds like my ds! Never wanted to listen to/sing nursery rhymes. I took him weekly to mother and toddler which always ended with a 10 minute singing session, and he hated it. He hated it at nursery and playgroup. Whenever I try to sing nursery rhymes with him, he would tell me to stop!

He also didn't want to know anything about learning until 6, and then everything clicked. They must be TWINS!

[Devexity]

Lolapoppins - I had to hide in Sainsbury's once when my two year old broke into 'but I shot a man in Reno/just to watch him die...' at the top of his lungs. Aces.

[lolapoppins]

Devexity - my ds hated nursery rhymes in any form from the word go. He would cover his ears and stamp his feet from 12 months! Would listen endlessly to the beatles and johnny cash though and demand they were played over and over again.

I used to get horrendous looks at toddler group from other parents when ds didn't known single nursery rhyme, but hey ho, music is music and he has a real passion for it even now. I don't feel as though he missed out on a developmental milestone not knowing any.

Fwiw, part of the problem was that my ds refused to have anything at all to do with 'learning' until he was 6. Most kisnpicknupnthe alphabetbat 3 or 4, ds did not wan to know. Refused letters, numbers, would not even colour in as he associated holding a pencil with learning, would not sit on a circle at groups and sing songs etc.

At six, everything just clicked into place for him and he was reading/writing within a month.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

I didn't know mine til Juniors despite being quite bright. nobody had taught it to me and it didnt occur to me to learn it until I was kept in one playtime for talking in line and had to write it down as a punishment. I was mortified!

[Devexity]

To the parents of non-alphabet knowing DCs:

Don't mean to be rude, genuinely baffled: did you not endlessly sing your DCs the alphabet song as part of your repertoire of early childhood/bored in the car/kill me now songs?

Thought this was part of generic little kid-hood. I've got recordings of me singing it at 3, and very fond memories of my then 2 year old niece singing 'cue-ball ess, tee you vee...'. My very able reader Y1 DS has to sing it in chunks in order to alphebetise

Then again, so do I.

shame

[mrz]

In reception children are expected to know some letter names. However alphabetical order is in the National literacy framework for Y2

[Peaceflower]

It appears that (correctly) reciting the alphabet is not a requirement in the early years in schools!

My dd learned when she was 2, due to an addiction to Barney the dinosaur. When I started school, we all had to sing the alphabet song every day.

I love Elmo,by the way, and will forgive him the "zee", as I did "Barney" .

[lolapoppins]

Same as my ds. Fantastic with Reading, writing, spelling but only learned the alphabet with no mistakes when he was 7.4 ish.

[helyg]

DS1 is 7 and in Year 2 and I don't think he knows his alphabet either. Obviously he knows his letters and what they do (he is one of the top in the class for reading), but AFAIK they have never been taught the alphabet.

They don't sing it here as they are taught it in Welsh and not English, and all of the Ch's and Ll's don't fit with the tune!