Should I speek to the teacher about this bossy little madam in my daughters class?

[mummyloveslucy]

Hi, My daughter is nearly 5 and has a friend of the same age who lives down the road. They are at school together, in the same class. This little girl is an only child like my daughter, and is a right little madam. She is alays saying to my daughter things like "I'm better than you", "I'm faster than you", "I'm cleverer than you" etc. Her mum says "Oh, she's so competetive", I feel like saying "Oh, is that what you call it". The little girl was also saying that "My dolls house is bigger/better than yors". She came to play yesterday with her mum. Her mum told me that because she's given up her dummy, she's got two new dolls and a nintendo DS? as a reward. The little girl was saying to my DD, "I've got twin dolls and you haven't". I then told the little girl that my dd had given up her blanket thing recently too. She got quite angry about this shouting/whining, "She didn't give up her blanket, she didn't" when I said "She did" she just said to my dd, "well I gave up my dummy before you gave up your blanket".
She then said to her mum, "I'm going to throw snow at Lucy!". The mum didn't say anything.
She's just such a spoiled little madam, and I'm concerned at that she might be harming my dd's confidence. She has speech problems and is delayed developmentally, but is the sweetest little girl you could meet. She is quite sensitive though. I worry when this friend of hers says things like "No one knows what you're saying".
I'm never sure what to say when she puts my dd down, as her mum dosn't seem to mind or say anything. I don't want my dd to think that I approve of her behaviour, or what she's saying either. It's quite awkward.
I'm not sure wether to have a word with the teacher and see what she's like at school with my dd. It is such a small class of only 9, I'm worried that there won't be much escape from her.
Also if you have any advice on what to do when she's putting my daughter down, when her mum's there, that would be good.
If she plays at mine on her own I can say that "Lucy won't want to play with you, if you aren't kind to her" etc.
I just think, of all the children who could've moved in down the road, it had to be her.

[jaded]

I would ask the teacher if the girl does the same things at school (and possibly to other children). It would be useful for the teacher to know that the girl is a potential bully. The comment about your daughter's speech is bullying. Better to nip it in the bud now so things don't get worse for your daughter or other children. Don't invite the girl to your house and the parent should get the general idea that you are not happy wiht the child's behaviour. She does sound very insecure and unhappy but that is no reason to make your daughter feel upset. School at this tender age should be about teaching children how to respect each other. Bullying amongst girls (according to my husband who is a teacher) is difficult to spot in schools because girls are v sly about it! Boys just fight to get it out of their systems and that's easy to notice!! Keep up the good work, you sound like a lovely mum.

[mimsum]

randomized controlled double blind trial showing no difference between diet and control group

and links to lots of different studies here

anecdotes aren't evidence

but this is all getting way off topic as mll's daughter has verbal dyspraxia - sorry mll!

[post]

Gf/cf diet has had a massive effect on my ds, which was apparent within a week of starting it, and he has a very clear reaction when he accidently breaks it. To the extent that now he's able to talk about the effect that it has on him, and is extremely careful with what he eats because he hates the reaction so much.
I wish we'd done it sooner.

[mrz]

I was very impressed with the results of their work with my son

[mimsum]

the university of Sunderland research is not well regarded as far as I"m aware - I'd suggest anyone contemplating the GF/CF diet do a lot more digging

the uni of Sunderland also did very spurious 'research' into eyeQ, which has come in for particularly scathing comment in the Guardian's Bad Science column, so just because research is done by a university doesn't mean it's robust

[WynkenBlynkenandNod]

Unless your DD is getting upset you really don't want to say anything to the teacher. I'd make sure your DD plays out of school with the girls she does get on with. It may be that the dynamc is different in the classroom and I'm sure that with a class so small the teacher will be aware of what is going on. If things escalate you'll need to say something but not at the moment.

[MollieO]

Sounds like normal 4/5 year old behaviour. Ds is competitive over the oddest things and it varies from week to week. There was a huge competitive 'my house is older than your house' at school the other week (ds didn't partake in that one). Ime I can't see the point in saying anything. If your dd is upset then I would just say that it isn't important. If the other girl is really upsetting her then I wouldn't socialise with her.

Ds hero worships another boy at school whose behaviour towards him is unpleasant to say the least - name calling and refusing to let ds join in games even where the majority of the children are playing. It doesn't upset ds and he is still of an age where he thinks other children can be won round with kindness. All I have done is ensure that ds doesn't see this boy outside school as I know (from other mums) that the bad behaviour continues unchecked at home.

[mrz]

The university of Sunderland has undertaken a great deal of research into diet and Autism
www.espa-research.org.uk//research.html
It explains the theory and tests GP referrals and dietician support

[claig]

mimsum, ok thanks for clarifying that, I didn't realize that, I don't really know much about it

[mimsum]

claig

as far as I'm aware there is no robust evidence that a GF/CF diet has any effect at all on autistic spectrum disorders. It is a very restrictive diet which should only be undertaken under medical supervision

[madwomanintheattic]

dd2 has a number of girls like this in her class - in fact both of my older dcs have also shared a class/ friendship with girls with the same characteristics. they are found in all classrooms lol.

i think both you and i are more sensitive to more robust children when we directly compare them to our own sn children - the comparison makes it even more obvious that our child has noticeable delays and is not such a strong character/ able to defend themselves as well. this is a particular issue with speech difficulties of course.

that said - the current 'madam' in dd2's life is the daughter of dh's most senior boss. she almost certainly does have some form of sn herself, which is being looked at. i try to 'manage' their interactions a little. what upsets me more is a whole gaggle of other chikldren in the class that won't let dd2 share their colouring etc, because 'she just scribbles'. hence this morning the rest of the family have been packed off to where the rest of the community hang out, and i am at home with dd2 where hse can practice her own fine motor control without being reduced to tears.

[claig]

mummyloveslucy, I know very little about verbal dyspraxia and autism spectrum disorders, so forgive me if I am talking rubbish. Have you come across the American actress Jenny McCarthy, partner of the actor Jim Carrey? She has written two New York Times bestselling books about her search for help for her autistic son. There is lots of info about her on youtube, including an Oprah interview and Larry King CNN interview etc.

She claims that a GFCF (gluten free casein free) diet has really alleviated her son's symptoms and helped with his speech development.

Links for her two books are :
www.amazon.co.uk/Louder-Than-Words-Jenny-McCarthy/dp/0553820001/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=12631&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21 29720&sr=8-3
and
www.amazon.co.uk/Mother-Warriors-Parents-Healing-Against/dp/0452295602/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21 d=1263133510&sr=8-1

[claig]

everytime she does something nice, let her know what a lovely girl she is, and when she boasts or is nasty, don't tell her off, rather show her that you are disappointed in her. This may produce a self-fulfilling prophecy where she ends up naturally doing what you would like her to do.

[swill72]

"If she plays at mine on her own I can say that "Lucy won't want to play with you, if you aren't kind to her" etc."

I would still say this in front of the mother, to be honest! But then I would expect my friends/parents of my children's friends to do the same if my child was being vile too!

[claig]

in fact, a variation of it could be
"am I bovvered?"

[claig]

madamearcati, that is brilliant , worth trying to see what effect it has

[madamearcati]

or just reply 'so ?' to every boast

[Miggsie]

Oh this could be my DD and her "friend".

Everything DD did or said this other girl had done it bigger, better, first, higher...etc etc

Anything DD did that the other girl patently couldn't do she said she wouldn't do because it was "rubbish".

In the end she really started picking on DD and making her life a misery and I agonised about it and then DD came out of school upset and I knew why and her teacher said "is she ill? It's not like her" and so I said this girl was picking on her.

The teacher was immediately sympathetic, and talked to DD and the girl (separately) and whatever she said/did WORKED because the girl stopped.

Well, she still is a real attention seeking madam and a "queen bee" but she has stopped picking on my DD.

So, for me, it was worth saying something.

Nothing worse for a chatty young girl to make a remark and have th other child say "oh well I've done it better" or "I don't care".

DD now has non competitive friends that she can chat to and play with without this dreadful competitive dynamic.

[nancydrewrocks]

These girls are 4. Their social skills are basic at best.

Please try to stop seeing this little girl in such a negative light. Unbalanced relationships between young girls are very common, often one is a stronger more dominant character than the other. That is not necessarily a bad thing.

Unless your DD is upset by being with this girl (and that wasn't the impression I got from your OP) I wouldn't interfere. Teach your DD to have confidence in herself and then take a step back. Children learn how to negotiate more complex relationships by dealing with these smaller issues themselves.

[madamearcati]

I would just encourage Lucy to make friends with the other girls.TBH the other girls's behaviour is very very common.She does sound very very competitive ,and that's just the way some people are.

[claig]

when she says something nasty to Lucy, try saying something like
"it's unkind to speak to Lucy like that, it's surprising because you are usually such a nice kind girl"
it may work because it will make her happy that you think she is nice and kind, and she will be upset that she has disappointed you, and she may be kinder in order to please you

[annh]

Why are you inviting this child over to play? If you really think she is a "bossy little madam" (and I can probably imagine very well the kind of girl you mean), then your own daughter's happiness should come above feeling sorry for the other little girl because you think she is feeling neglected. Invite your daughter's other friends instead.

I also don't see why you feel you can pick her up nicely on her behaviour when she is at your house alone but don't say anything when her her mother is there? Yes, her mother probably should say something to her but, if not, I would say something instead. When my boys were little enough to have those kind of supervised playdates, I wouldn't hesitate to stop them from fighting, jumping on furniture, being unkind to one another regardless of whether the other parent was there or not.

[LIZS]

It isn't really anything to do with the teacher unless it impacts on her behaviour at school. I'm not sure why you feel the need to supervise the play so closely , unless you are fearful of the effect this may have ? It may seem scary but sometimes you have to let them get on with it and see if they can deal with it themselves . It may simply not bother your dd in the way you suggest, especially if it also happens at school and is dealt with. Perhaps you need to give her more credit.

[mimsum]

mll I really wouldn't throw them together too much - you can't force the other little girl to like your dd and it doesn't sound really like they've got too much in common

I can remember the torture of being made to play with kids because they were the same age as me, or lived in the same round, and adults assuming that meant we'd be bound to get on

I suspect the very small classes in your dd's school could become problematic, if they're not already, as if a socially powerful child decides to turn the rest of the class against another child it's very difficult to deal with

and please don't feel sorry for this other child and assume she's behaving like this because her upbringing is in some way faulty - it may well be that this 'bossy little madam's' mother is reading your posts - obviously I don't have a clue who you are, but you've put so much information about your dd's situation in your posts that it would be very easy for someone who knows you or her in real life to identify you