Prep School whole class violin - great idea?

[thedolly]

DD is in the first year of Prep School. Since the beginning of the year the whole class have been learning to play the violin as beginners. I'm sure this is a great idea for the majority of pupils but not DD. She has had private violin lessons for a year and a half now and is expected to 'learn' violin with the novices. She is understandably bored. Please could someone give me some advice on what I could do? I have already spoken to the teachers involved at the beginning and end of last term and nothing has changed.

[thedolly]

CJBRDS Thank you very much for your long and thoughtful post. If you were teaching DD I would I am sure have no cause for concern . Are you in a round about way saying that we should work towards a solution that means DD continues with class violin? .

[CJBRDS]

thedolly- I think I understand your concerns from all angles- is it possible that you can ask to meet the violin teacher at the school.? He/she should want to know what your child is learning privately, who teaches them (it is a very small world and the 2 teachers may know each other and be able to work together), what methods are being adopted etc. There are many different methods out there but most of them hope to achieve similar goals-some teachers however prefer different methods. if all parties are provided with all the information it should be possible to settle your concerns and make it still fun for your child at school. The violin is not learnt overnight- it is a difficult instrument, but nonetheless worthwhile. If I were teaching your child, I would want to find out exactly what he/she can do, and reassure the private teacher that I was not seeking to change anything they were trying to teach- i might get the child involved in helping the other kids who are not yet so advanced in the group, and definitely get them involved in the general musicanship which is beneficial to all. Many beginner' s methods can incorporate an easy part with a more advanced part (such as the Sheila Nelson method) so that players of differing abilities can play together. The difficulty is as a teacher that often there is very little time, so this also needs to be balanced with ensuring the others also learn the basics , and sometimes other focuses such as class discipline can marr learning experiences.
I do know that we all tend to become very sensitive in areas of music education- quite rightly! It is highly personal in the way that some other subjects are not. i hope the school teachers can listen to your concerns. I once had a very similar situation to this when a child was already learning externally. I tried to talk to the mother to reassure that I would not dream of interferring with the private teacher and the child should know that their home teacher was their "real" teacher and I was giving extra help. I felt I was being very sensitive and accomodating, but the mother would not really listen to what I had to say, which was upsetting, and even after the very first session, in which the other children had just been given their violins for the 1st time was highly critical to the point that she put her anger onto her child, which immediately filtered negatively into the group. I suggested at that point that the child did not temporarily join in in the school group, but was welcome at any time, which is actually still the case. I usually make a point of talking to that child about how she is getting on on her violin, and i actually think she would quite like to join in.I wish you and your child luck and at the end of the day hope they enjoy the violin and the music - the goal that hopefully all parties are trying to achieve.

[thedolly]

CJBRDS - I agree that the right teacher should be able to make it a worthwhile experience for all. DD plays violin in a group of children with a range of abilities/experience as part of her 'private' lessons and it is beneficial in the ways that you have mentioned. Unfortunately this is not happening at school.

The point you make about a good teacher not interfering with what a child might be learning privately mirrors my thoughts exactly. However, DD was expected to change her previously taught technique to fit in with what the class teacher expected until I interfered .

Do you feel that I have been negative/narrow minded in my response to the situation as outlined?

Does my email say 'dialogue' or 'finger-pointing' to you? I am interested in your opinion as I agree that keeping a dialogue going is important.

[CJBRDS]

I actually teach a group in a primary school the violin. I am a performing musician. I was asked to go in and set up the group. There is a lot that kids can learn even if they are already playing. We teach them in groups of 3 or 4 and it provides a very sociable way of learning and making the start of playing music a shared experience. Some parents have been negative (and I am a parent of a 5 year old, who is also learning the violin)which is a shame and also quite narrow minded- it seems that music teaching is a very sensitive issue. But also an important one, and through it children benefit so much. They learn to listen, to share and a good teacher will not interfere with what a child might be learning privately , but could enhance it. Many general musicianship skills can be learnt. It is important to keep a dialogue going with the school and music department, so that everyone is kept fully informed, but in general a school that adopts this form of learning should be praised for its efforts and it is possible to also include more advanced pupils even in a group activity.

[Scorta]

Mr Quaver

[stealthsquiggle]

Well written. You are not giving him the option of 'do nothing'. I hope he responds.

[ZZZen]

I like that, it sounds nice but at the same time like you expect a solution. Good luck, fingers crossed for you.

[thedolly]

A big thank you to all the ladies who have provided assistance on this thread. I have written to the Director of Music (email). Here is a copy of what I sent (the names have been changed to preserve anonymity - you can identify with that can't you stealthsquiggle ). You may recognise some of it .

Dear Mr Crotchet

Having spoken to you last half term, I thought I would drop you a line in an attempt to "firm up" DD's music provision during the Monday violin slot. Whilst I think that class violin at this stage is great for giving a flavour of what it is like to learn the instrument, it has been of very little use to DD who as you know has been playing for a year and a half now. Please can you let me know what you have in mind for DD for the rest of the academic year so that I can assure her that she will be doing something useful during this time. Some ideas that we have come up with between the two of us are:

1. DD could have her weekly piano lesson with Mr Quaver at this time. Hopefully, locking down one piano lesson to the same slot each week is achievable within what I know is already a complex 'rota' system for individual lessons.

1. If there is a room that she could go to she could get her daily violin practice done at that time.

1. DD has even said that she would be prepared to do some music theory worksheets in a quiet corner as a last resort!

Please let me know what you have decided so that I can pass the news on to DD, thus ensuring that her enthusiasm for all things musical does not wane.

Thanking you in anticipation,

thedolly

[stealthsquiggle]

Thanks, thedolly, but I am paranoid enough not to say . Actually, shoe-horning another instrument and associated practice into DS's week would be next to impossible anyway, so I probably don't need to know (it's just that my DB learnt from age 3 and DS is 6 so there is a bit of me thinking 'time's a-wasting' )

[MollieO]

So you aren't paying extra, which is good, but you still need to ensure dd's interest is maintained. At least it is only a 20 min lesson but even so. Good luck with talking to the head. I know at my ds's school that they would be keen to resolve it in a beneficial way if we had the same issue. That should be one of the benefits of paying!

[thedolly]

stealthquiggle - where are you? I am a member of the BSI, I'm sure there are good teachers near where you live, I could find out for you if you like.

[thedolly]

MollieO - the violin lessons of which I am speaking are part of the curriculum but DD (not DS as I previously posted - uugh I've been 'marketed' !!) also has violin lessons out of school.

[stealthsquiggle]

Whereabouts are you BTW (hopeful about wonderful suzuki teacher )?

[stealthsquiggle]

Hmmm - you are the customer here. Ask.

I know the rotas are a nightmare, but locking down one piano lesson to the same slot each week won't kill the director of music or the piano teacher and he said he would sort it.

[thedolly]

ZZZen - fabulous Suzuki teacher in village - too good to miss out on.

[MollieO]

I also wouldn't expect complacency at a private school tbh. I assume you are paying for the school violin lessons, in which case they should be made to do something appropriate for your dd. If she was good at maths they wouldn't make her do the same work as someone who was struggling, would they?

[MollieO]

I meant having a lesson with the older children which would be fine unless she was missing something important in her own class. I always missed the same lesson iirc. Ds's piano lesson varies so he doesn't miss the same lesson every week. Sounds like it could be a good idea to organise the piano lesson for when the rest of the class are doing violin. It would be hard for the teacher to have her do something more advanced in such a big class. I used to have lessons with one other girl who was the same level. Can't quite imagine being in such a large group of violins that wasn't part of an orchestra!

You need to do something though if this has been going on since Sept.

[thedolly]

stealthsquiggle - I've thought of that one but it's a logistical nightmare arranging lessons and incorporating a 'rota' system to ensure that pupils don't miss the same lesson each week. I ruled out even the possibility of it.

[ZZZen]

Presume you have chosen not to have the individual violin tuition at school because it would not be Suzuki.

[thedolly]

DS doesn't complain but when I ask her about it she says she is bored and would rather be doing something useful.

I don't like complacency in education. It's 'the road to no town' as they say where I'm from.

Going to the Head is bound to make me unpopular!

[ZZZen]

That's a good idea

[stealthsquiggle]

Could they not schedule her piano lesson to co-incide with class violin? That would seem to me to be the perfect solution and all within the control of the director of music.

It is serious in as much as it could put your DD off violin altogether.

[Scorta]

why dont you organise her vilin lesson while the others are learning?

[thedolly]

MollieO - DD learns Suzuki violin from a teacher who is not linked to school in any way. There are individual violin lessons at school but no one in her class plays (as far as I know). She already misses a lesson a week for piano.

I just need to come up something that she could do during the allotted time - any ideas since you are obviously musical?

[roisin]

Thedolly - does your dd complain to you about this situation? Does it really bother her, or is just that you think it's a waste of her time?

If it bothers her then I would take it to school again and talk to them again about it, and say how difficult dd is finding this.

If not, then I'd just say go with it. It's only 20 mins a week, and it's not the end of the world.