Scottish system of school age: please help me work this out as I'm too bloody thick.

[MadamAnt]

DD has a Jan birthday and is now 3.9. She is allowed to start school next September or the year after. (I think she'll be fine to start next year as she's v outgoing).

DS has an Aug birthday. He will start school when he's five + a few days.

We've only recently moved back to Scotland, and I was v worried about hin starting school in England at four. The scottish system is going to be much better for him.

Anyway, I'm toying with the idea of a third DC. More than toying actually, I'm sure we're going to go for it soon. I know it's impossible to time these things, but in an ideal world, I'd like to avoid TDC3 (T = theoretical) being the youngest in his / her class.

So if I got up the duff in the early spring, and TDC3 was born in Dec/Nov, would he/she be one of the youngest? I guess it depends on how common it is for parents of Jan/Feb b'day DCs to defer entry til they are 5 and a half.

Someone help me work this out please!!

[prettybird]

My ds (birthday in September so right in the middle age wise) really struggled with his reading: as the school said, bright but just not developmentally ready. They said some kids, especially boys, just aren't ready to read until they are 6. It didn't click (ie he only learnt how to "blend" then) until near the end of P2 - so I was 6 and a half. Until then he was "reading" by memorising the sotry and words. The school gave him loads of extra support - 6 weeks of 1:1 tuition from the depute head who is repsonsbile for the infants/literacy - but finally decided to drop him out of the "top" group for reading into the middle group - as much for his own confidence as anything.

He has a minor problem now in that he is between groups, ie the middle group is not stretching him, but he wouldn't be able to cope with the top group. We re working with the school on this.

If he had been born two weeks earleir and we were in England, he would have really struggled and I am not sure if he would have ever caught up.

[goldndiamonds]

Oh, and I feel I must add: the way things have turned out for my DS, now in P2, sometimes I wish I had deferred him!! He's 'billy no mates' I'm sad to say, doesn't listen very well to verbal instruction, and has good and bad days as far as focussing on his work while in class is concerned... he is generally well behaved in class, but some days are punctuated by him acting a bit silly in a pathetic bid for attention and friendship. (He's in the middle bunch in terms of reading ability and is quite good at maths, so I suppose it could be worse, but additional support for learning have been brought into the mix... in an effort, I think, to save the quality of the schoolwork from being undermined by the perceived developmental/social weaknesses - this could well be what some canny people who defer their children hope to avoid!!!)

[goldndiamonds]

Celtiethree is spot on on this. My DS has a December birthday, but in the end we decided to send him the year he turned 5 just to simplify it (so in fact he was still 4 when he started) + nursery said he was ready. When he got to school there were 2 or 3 children in P1 who fell just outside the dates or who were deferred - I help in the classroom and noticed that the older children were more mature in their general demeanor, but by no means any better at their school work!

[poppysocks]

Thanks celtiethree. Hadn't considered registering her and then deferring, if necessary.

[celtiethree]

Poppysocks you can register her but still not send her, the law only requires you to send from age 5 and in Scotland that means that if they are not 5 by the start of the Aug term then you don't have to send them until the following year.

It drives the council and schools crazy but the reality is that every year they often don't know exactly who will actually turn up on the first day of term as there are always a few who can't make up their minds.

The only problem for you if you take this route is that you may loose any flexibility in the nursery sessions that are available if you finally choose not to send. That said if your local school is anything like ours they will be as supportive as possible and ensure that there is still a place in nursery if required.

[poppysocks]

Watching this with interest as am English in Scotland, so is all a bit different. Thought I'd done quite well, school year wise, by having DD in late February...

Four and a half does seem quite young for full-time school, especially if most children do defer and she effectively ends up being in a year group with children over a year older (January birthdays who had deferred from the year before). On the other hand, five and a half sounds late to start school.

She's only two and a half at the moment, but the school want her to be registered by the end of January if she's to go at four and a half .

[celtiethree]

Hi,

Where I stay it is fairly common to defer. I chose not to defer my DS2 who has a Feb birthday and I don't regret it. He is very sociable and academically at the top end of the class. When making the decision I took the advice of the nursery who said that he was more than ready.

One frustration that I have with where I stay is that everybody feels that it's OK to comment on your decision to send/not send esp if you have a boy. Seems that you are doing something wrong by not keeping them at home for another year.

Love the Scottish system as is allows so much flexibility. DS1 is an Aug birthday and if we hadn't left London would have gone at age 4, difference between 4 and 4 and a half is huge.

DS3 has a November birthday and will be going in the August that follws his 4th birthday.

[prettybird]

One of ds' friends has a December birthday and was deffered, so he is nearly a full year older than ds (whose birthday is in September) (ds has just truned 8 and his friend will be 9 in December)

My neighbours deferred entry for their ds, whose birthday is in February, so although he is already 5, he only started in P1 in August (and today is his first full day at school! )

I even knew that deferral was an option for ds, even though his birthday is in September (and I'd have had to pay for the extra year's nursery, unless the nursery supported the deferral), but in the event he was ready.

[tiggerlovestobounce]

To answer the OP, my DD has an early Jan birthday, and is the youngest in her year.
There are older children then her in the year below her. She seems OK though. I did worry about it when she started and I found out she was the youngest, as I hadnt realised when we registered her for school how common deferring was.
I did discuss it with DDs teacher though who clearly thought I had no cause for concern, which was reassuring.
My DD loves being the youngest, and she is doing absolutly fine, but even now I have moments of doubt about whether or not I did the right thing, which is stupid really as I only feel that way because so many other people have deferred.

[allytjd]

I wish i had defered DS2 whose b/day is 20th December. The nursery advised me not to bother and I didn't want to separate him from his friends but he struggled quite a bit in P1.

[tiggerlovestobounce]

P1

[midnightexpress]

BTW, out of interest, if you do defer, does your child go into p1 or p2?

[hannahsaunt]

I deferred ds2 (a Jan birthday). He's proving to be very bright but he's a homeboy too and another year at home at this age doesn't hurt in the slightest. He's ahead of his P1 peers in some areas but I think it's not really about the academic stuff in P1 - it's socialisation, tiredness etc. He comes home and has enough energy to be excited about his swimming lesson and tennis and can't wait to start his new gymnastics class.

OTOH my colleague didn't defer her dd1 and the first three years of school were awful. In P1 she was just past it by the end of each school day and was miserable. It's taken 'til now for her to actively enjoy and engage with school. And she's always going to be playing catch up.

[Wallace]

I'm sure it does happen, but probably not as often as the other way round

[TheCrackFox]

Sorry, it is probably a one off but this boy is super bright and I think he gets easily frustrated because TBH the work is beneath him. I think parents have to be realistic about their DCs.

[Wallace]

Interesting thecrackfox, We were discussing this recently and I know plenty of parents who didn't defer and regret it, but not a single parent who did defer and regrets it.

[TheCrackFox]

There is a boy in DS1s class who is a deferred entry and I think his parents made a mistake. He is really bright for his age and gets bored easily.

[nicky111]

In Glasgow _ I know loads of people who have deferred entry for their children - it is positively encouraged by DD1's nursery, especially for boys.

[cluelessnchaos]

I deffered entry for dd2 even though she was reading and writing and was very confident. Mainly becasue she was going to a small school with only 4 others in her year two of them being over a year older. It is more common here to defer than to send them if they are jan/feb birthdays. But they are clamping down on it here for oct-dec birthdays, you will now need evidence from the teachers and health visitor to defer, hth.

[MadamAnt]

Thanks - this is very helpful info!

[RaggedRobin]

my ds is a dec birthday. he just misses automatic entitlement to an extra year of nursery if i decide to defer him. his language is delayed at the moment, so i am sending him to a school nursery in the hope that i can discuss deferred entry with his nursery teacher when the time comes.

as far as i know, the extra year of nursery is at the lea's discretion for dec birthdays, so i'm assuming i'd have to make a good case.

[pointydog]

yes, it has become popular to defer

[AMumInScotland]

Back when I went to school, hardly anyone deferred. When DS started (now nearly 15) there were 2 boys with Jan/Feb birthdays who had deferred, and two who had not. That was a very small sample obviously, but would make it 50% for Jan/Feb, and presumably lower for Sep to Dec birthdays.

It's worth remembering that with the Scottish system even the youngest in the year will start a bit older than in England. So they will still be the youngest in their year but they will be much more ready for school.

[pointydog]

That's true, MIS. You should also consider the advice given by your dc's nursery teacher or it could be tricky.