Are year 6 SAT results used to project GCSE results?

[Marypoppins19]

I think DS will do in ok in SATs but I also think he could make much more progress in Secondary school. Primary has been bumpy with changes of teachers, one sacked! He has suddenly grown up, found a bit more of a commitment to working hard - but probably all a bit late in the day for primary results.
How much will sats effect his secondary school journey?

[TeenTimesTwo]

And you have to remember that teachers and schools actually do want to help the pupils learn and pass exams. Teachers wouldn't put up with their working conditions if they didn't care about the pupils. So they aren't just going to ignore pupils because they don't have y6 SATs results.

[noblegiraffe]

Every child without SAT data could literally fail every GCSE and the progress 8 score would remain unchanged.

This doesn’t mean that schools can shut kids with no SATs data in a cupboard for 5 years. They still count in the headline GCSE figures for the school and despite not counting for progress 8, the school will still want them to pass maths, English and the Ebacc.

[Helix1244]

Where will this leave dc in the incorrect cohort? I believe their results are not counted towards the school? So will schools put themin bottom sets? Not help them?

[TeenTimesTwo]

A decent school will look at SATs but will not be constrained by them. They will look at the child in front of them and treat them as they see them.

Our school doesn't let on to the pupils their formal SATs based GCSE target. It just says how they are getting on and their predicted grade based on current attainment, progress to date, and work ethic.

Similarly a decent school will not prevent progress based on sets. Every child should be being pushed/encouraged to do their best whatever their set.

[OpalTree]

I had every intention of dd2 doing sats as her older sister had done but my husband died just before they started and she was in shock and in no fit state to take exams. The school gave her a target based on cats and put her in a maths set that was right for her. I just have to hope that not being included in progress 8 won't disadvantage her as she moves up the school

[modgepodge]

Regardless of what everyone has said on here about how their child’s school doesn’t care about SATS and does their own assessments in year 7 - their child’s school will be judged on progress from y6 sats to GCSE, so they do care, regardless of what they tell parents. They can do any assessments they like, but it’s all irrelevant when it comes to statistics at GCSE. One poster mentioned that sats results are ignored until they are looked at for statistical purposes after GCSE - there’s no way the school simply ignore the data until after GCSE then analyse it - there will be discussions going on yearly or possibly even termly, most likely from y7 onwards, about which children are making expected progress and which need to make more progress and how to achieve that.

What Cordelia says is unfortunately likely true in many many schools where data is king. No teacher wants this, but the pressure is immense.
Incidentally, the same thing is happening in many primary schools with y2 to y6 data - particularly junior schools with a separate infant school (rather than through primaries).

[CordeliaWyndamPryce]

Sorry, I was probably being unclear. By "good" I categorically do not mean "what ofsted grades as Good". I mean decent, genuinely interested in the progress (and health and wellbeing) of all children. Progress 8 only includes students who have SAT data. Ofsted and progress 8 will give you literally no indication of how children without SAT scores do. Every child without SAT data could literally fail every GCSE and the progress 8 score would remain unchanged.

Btw, I'm really not a fan of SATs and as a teacher I absolutely think they should be scrapped. But, until they are, I think that children who won't be mentally harmed by the process should sit them as a fail-safe against unscrupulous secondary school leaders. Even if you like the school leaders now and they are decent folks, a lot can change in 5 years.

[Marypoppins19]

We have chosen a school with the highest progress 8 in the county. Results not as high but still on top 20%, progress is highest in the area though. I’m hoping that really helps him.

[CordeliaWyndamPryce]

Whilst what individual schools do internally changes, OfSTED look at progress from SATs to GCSE. In my previous school (with shit slt) I was told that the extra work I did with a kid at lunchtime didn't matter because he had no SAT data and so it wouldn't help the school data. I moved schools rather than deal with such narrow focussed slt, but it would have been easier to simply focus on the kids that counted for ofsted (which is what slt were implying I should do).

So if you are bothered about his progress and how school will handle his progress I think sitting the SATs are a better plan than skipping them. If you ask the school you'll get an "every child matters" response. In good schools that is true, but in shit ones it isn't. But it's almost impossible to tell which is which unless you've worked for them.

[HaroldsSocalledBluetits]

Hopefully the school are sensible about it. We actually found it useful to have lower targets for dd to begin with. She did badly in sats as she'd missed a lot of yr 6 due to illness so the targets she initially had were manageable and took the pressure off. Now she's more or less caught up and her targets have been steadily adjusted. She's also moved up sets but again it was good she got the extra time and support in lower sets to begin with because like I say she'd missed a lot of school. DS on the other hand aced his sats and the setting tests and has had very high targets throughout which doesn't seem to phase him but I personally think it's a lot of pressure.

[Marypoppins19]

HaroldsSocalledBluetits - well that’s a lot more reassuring.

I’m going to need to really work with the school to get the best for DS

[HaroldsSocalledBluetits]

You really need to ask the school itself as from reading what others are saying it works differently in different places.

[Marypoppins19]

I can totally imagine that 😭

[HaroldsSocalledBluetits]

That should say those end of year targets

[HaroldsSocalledBluetits]

At my dcs'school they use the sats scores to initially set the eventual target. They then do their own tests for streaming in some subjects after Xmas. As they go through school they get targets for the end of the year which to begin with are in line with what their eventual target taken from the sats are. However those end of the year are adjusted according to how they're doing. So if a pupil is doing better than their target for that year by Xmas or Easter they just give them a higher target to reach. By the end the headline figure is whether or not they've met the target set in yr 7 for govt collation purposes. However most of them will in practice be working to different actual targets depending on their progress through school. And although they are streamed, the streams are flexible. So there is actually quite a lot of movement both in terms of targets and setting. By the time they're a couple of years in, how they did in their sats has no bearing on what happens with them and it only resurfaces again for statistics purposes after GCSE results.

[DobbysLeftSock]

Movement between sets can be hard. For someone to move up, someone else has to move down. If the child in the set above has a higher target (based on their SATS) the school needs to get that kid to their target, or they will have a negative progress score. So the school will be unlikely to move a child with a higher target down a set in order to move a child with a lower target up.

[MsTSwift]

Dd school they definitely set on sats. She’s year 8 in too low maths set due to sats result not reflecting her ability. Doesn’t seem to be much movement between sets. Sats seem to be very important though we were told otherwise by the school

[DobbysLeftSock]

I am wondering if there will be a move away from this now Ofsted are focussing less on internal data

The KS2 SATS will likely be even more important, as the only data that will now be considered by ofsted is the amount of progress from the end of ks2 (so, SATS) to the end of ks4 (GCSE). Schools will be able to do whatever they like with cats tests, internal assessment etc, but ofsted won't look at that data.

[Marypoppins19]

Are CATS very different to sats?

[Marypoppins19]

It just scares me you could be in a set for a year before being moved?! I was thinking they might termly adjust?

[DobbysLeftSock]

It's a risk OP. Hopefully the school will recognise that he's 'better' than his SATS results and move him up to a better set, or they will do CATS tests at the start of yr7 which he can do well in, but there's no guarantee of that. It's one of the many reasons I don't like sets!

[DippyAvocado]

Yes, DH teaches Business and has his classes' GCSE predictions set based on how they did in their maths and English SATs in Year 6! I am wondering if there will be a move away from this now Ofsted are focussing less on internal data.

[MrsElijahMikaelson1]

School would like an under performance as they can add loads to his VAM! Don’t forget they move around sets as necessary-indeed DD who is Yr10 is only set for maths and everything else is mixed ability, which I seriously don’t understand! There are children struggling and children bored who can do it all-I don’t know how that is the best teaching for either end of the spectrum or how a teacher manages that (IME they are not!)

[zen1]

My DC in year 8 is purely streamed on SATs, whereas his older brother (in the same school) was streamed on CAT and SATs. However, for both DC, there is movement in the streams at least once or twice a year depending on exam results, so theoretically, a child placed in the bottom set in yr 7 could end up in the top set over the course of time. This has happened to a few DC.

[Chocolate50]

I think just for an initial indication. But most will assess again at secondary school.