Dreadful behaviour at school but not at home

[chloworm]

Please, please can someone offer me some advice? I feel so helpless and anxious. My little boy (5 years, July born) is really struggling with his behaviour in Year 1. I've just had the school on the phone for the upteenth time telling me he is hitting, punching, refusing to work and saying really unkind things. This has happened on and off since December. The school have put a lot of things in place for him, which worked for a while but not now. They have given him a safe space, downtime, personal timetable, reward systems and generally a lot of support. He is academically able and does not struggle with the work, when he does any! My concern is that he never once had an issue with his behaviour in Reception class. At home he is kind, gentle, happy, eager and generally a pleasure to be around. It's like he's a different child at school. Everyone he has ever been with, family, childminder, preschool, Reception class etc. all said how lovely and kind and well-behaved he was. I feel powerless as I can't be there at school to deal with this. At home we talk about feelings, read lots of stories about friendship and also have a reward system. But I can't do an awful lot else because he is so good at home and I can't punish him for something that happened hours ago at school. Should I push the school to have him assessed? I wonder what for? I never once thought my kind, happy child would be in this situation. Do you think it's to do with 'too much too soon' for a summer-born boy? I'm seriously considering asking to flexi-school (school in morning, home in afternoon). Do you think the school would go for that? I would love to home-school him but have to work p/t to put food on the table, and I love my job! Advice welcome from others in similar situation, teachers, ed psychs etc. Thanks so much in advance.

[Basicbrown]

I'd never heard of parents being graded but found this

Well yes, we get 'graded' on how often we read with DC at home whether we remember to fill in the reading record

It's a bit of a joke imo as you could never read but fill in the record. We're crap at filling it in so we get that we haven't met our target even though we read religiously.

[CheckpointCharlie2]

We use a similar analogy oldbirdy, a coke bottle that is shaken every time something happens, like you say, little things, and then after a while the bottle is so fizzy it explodes.
Sometimes I lose my spoons too! I'm going to use that idea from now on if you don't mind!!

[chloworm]

Oldbirdy that makes complete sense and it does seem to fit with what's happening to DS. As 'bad' things happen, or he gets told off, the whole day seems to go out the window. It's like he gives up trying. The last couple of days of term he was allowed to play in the library with another boy who has autism and has a 1-to-1 helper. That seemed to work really well and was a good compromise between getting attention but also learning how to play with someone else in a positive way. I hope they keep that up. I am going to bypass parents' evening and ask for a progress meeting the following week as 10 mins is not enough. The school does provide parents' questionnaires about the school, general stuff. Like AlexanderBerry, I would rather talk to the teacher face-to-face than rely on a questionnaire. She rings me up all the time anyway! I dread the phone ringing and jump out my skin when it does!

[user789653241]

Great post, oldbirdy.

[oldbirdy]

Have you heard of 'spoons theory'. I'm not sure that's its proper name, mind you. It was written by a girl with autism but is true for everyone really. It says you need to have 10 spoons in your pocket to feel great. But things make you lose spoons. Like mum shouting at you to get your shoes on, first spoon is dropped. Then teacher tells you to stop talking, another spoon drops. Etc etc. Once you are down to your last few spoons they drop very easily because you have few coping resources left. This means it can be a very tiny final event that leads to losing your final spoon... When you have lost your final spoon you meltdown or lash out. The teacher would say 'no trigger' but the trigger is that a series of tiny things have led to dropped spoons. What you need to do is work out how to put spoons back so the last spoon is never dropped. For example, teacher greets you personally, pick up a spoon, have a quiet zone at break time where you can chill out, collect 3 spoons back etc. Everyone picks up and loses spoons for different reasons. At the minute it sounds like he is losing more spoons than he gains, despite what support they have put in. This means either there is too much happening that he can't manage (could be the whole pressured ethos) or they are not doing the right sort of things to put his spoons back. I wonder if he can articulate what sorts of things make him feel better. I have to say I suspect it is just the wrong kind of ethos for your particular 5 year old. Hopefully he can identify a couple of things that make him lose spoons and a couple that help him collect new ones.

[AlexanderBerry]

Ours does ask for feedback on the school as a whole as they ask how the school deals with bullying/behaviour/settling the children in/if the hwk is challenging enough. They don't ask for feedback on individual teachers but i wouldn't write negative stuff about individual teachers on a survey anyway. I would speak to the teacher concerned to try and sort out any problems. I did give positive feedback about how the school/form teacher had dealt with stuff on the survey. Ours doesn't grade parents anyway.

[scaryclown]

I just wanted to make a couple of points in case its useful. When i was at school anything that infantalised me did my head in. I sort if put on an adult head when i went in and any play task felt deneaning..possibly because the (quite dangerous!) remedial class waa completely about play -orientates learning and was a complete free for all.

I also hated over authoritarian teachers and there was also an overriding culture if 'hard' kids so i sometimes acted up to fit in..but because i was a 'good kid' got massively bollicked for this compared to hard kids and it made my life miserable.

earlier in my school career i was the victim if several 'poke you till you react' bullies..eg compasses.. nicking your stuff and giving it back slightly damaged etc.. one of whom used to always push in front of me when i was waiting to see the teacher..even if she didnt want to see the teacher. i punched her in the face eventually in front of the teacher, but luckily a wonderful deputy head carefully listened to the whole dynamic, said he had seen her trying to get teachers sympathy by pretending to be hurt and i wasnt blamed but asked to help by staying away from her. she got a bollocking i could hear down the corridor :)

i'm saying that punishing the behaviour might not address the issue and might create more internal anger and damage.as it impkies its just intentional badness.

Also look at labelling. once i was labelled 'difficult' by one teacher, i got bloody told off all tge time, even when i wasnt even in the room sometimes

my teachers were shit with bullying but i am sure some of the dynamics remain..

[user789653241]

Yes, our school does parent surveys, but they ask about child's happiness etc, not about individual teacher/HT/SLT, or school as a whole.

If they grade parents by "if parents go above and beyond", parents should have opportunity to say if the school goes above and beyond for their child/children as well.

[AlexanderBerry]

The primary school does parent surveys too.

[AlexanderBerry]

Our high school doesn't grade parents (yet!) but they do hand out questionnaires at parents evening where we give feedback on things like child's happiness, feeling safe, behaviour etc at the school. You pick agree, strongly agree, disagree etc. Similar to parentview i think and you can write comments.

[user789653241]

School grading parents...I hope there's system for parents to grade school and HT/SLT as well at that school.

[BertrandRussell]

In that case, if I were you I might ask another parent if their child has said anything.

[chloworm]

Yes BertandRussell. I'm lucky I have some good friends who are also parents at the school.

[BertrandRussell]

Are you friends with any other parents?

[chloworm]

Just seen your message ohdarling. To the best of my knowledge, DS isn't being tormented but I will check with the teacher to be on the safe side. He does like the attention though, so when others laugh at him when he plays the clown, it probably doesn't help. I did think that if it continues, a new school might help him break the cycle. Lots to consider there though, as his sister goes to the same school and is very happy, so it would mean school runs to two different places. I think if it continues into the summer, I will investigate other schools. Need to give it time though, and see if these interventions work, as I do rate the amount of support given to me/him at his current school.

[chloworm]

No that's not my school in the article, but the grading system is pretty similar! TBH a lot of parents just ignore it as being a bit OTT. I do agree that DS needs to have firm boundaries and that aggression is not OK. Just being cross with him doesn't help though, in fact it makes things ten times worse. The message both the family and school give is it's OK to feel angry, but it's not OK to hit/kick. The teacher has worked very hard to help him channel his frustration in a better way e.g. take time out, take deep breaths, play for a while... I really like the idea of social stories, and another person on here has kindly offered to make some up for me. Ultimately, I have to remember he is 5 years old and needs love, love, love. I've started to accept that he marches to a different beat, and that my sick and anxious feeling is here to stay, for the time being at least. I cannot thank everyone enough for the support and ideas. I really like the idea that mums on here can support each other without judging.

[ohdarling]

I think this 'whispering' business needs to be investigated. It sounds to me as though your boy is being subtly bullied and goaded to behave like this. Those are the children the school needs to watch. Can they keep him away from those children somehow? Is there any possibility of you changing his school? I work in a secondary school and I must admit, sometimes, despite all interventions, some children just need to be given a fresh start away from their tormentors. It's that old adage - it's not you, it's them. And it really is sometimes.

[Lowdoorinthewal1]

As far as we know, OP's child is neurotypical? No mention of behaviours being caused by overload.

It is important to help any autistic child to self-regulate as there is no way, however perfectly you set up their school and home environment, you will catch every trigger or eliminate every situation in which they will overload. For these times, it is essential to help them know which 'coping' behaviours are never acceptable. It just isn't ok to hit or bite other kids, no matter how over-stimulated you are. If a child isn't taught this very clearly, the message won't stick when they really need it to. And yes, obviously you have to work just as hard to teach them what they can do to help themselves when they are overloaded.

I'm glad my DS wasn't taught by anybody who thought it was understandable and therefore excusable that he pushed other kids in a line because he didn't like the feeling of them being in his personal space. I could have asked them to always put him at the back of the line with a gap between him and the next child. That would have eliminated the trigger. But I know in busy schools with lots of staff that one day he would end up in the middle of a line. I'd much rather teach him that, yes, being in a line in uncomfortable to you, but you will keep your hands and feet to yourself and then have your own space in a few minutes when queuing is finished.

I was on a course recently where they described a pupil who had been taught always to be at the back of a line for this reason. Later, in a community learning session as a young adult, the person was observed not being able to get to the front of a queue in a bank because every time somebody joined the line behind them they came out of the line and went to the back, where they had been told they should be. Eliminating triggers rather than helping a child learn to cope with them has to be considered very carefully.

[mummytime]

Lowdoor I am so pleased you are not my DDs teacher. Being hardline with her got no where. Giving her an environment which she understands and with staff who understand her, has enabled her to thrive.
I never punish at home for what happens in school. I do ensure my children know when their behaviour is disappointing. And we go over and over the kind of behaviour expected.
But I also understand as does the school, what circumstances can make things extra hard for her. So she used to be warned about fire alarms, she has access to leaving the classroom to calm down, even when punished at school it is "justice tempered by mercy".

What worked at one point with your son will not necessarily work with every child. There is a world of difference between bad behaviour and sensory overload.

[Lowdoorinthewal1]

If it doesn't happen at home then there is really nothing much you can do.

My August born DS had a few issues at the start of Reception with pushing other children and being quite unkind. I didn't take the attitude that I didn't see it so I couldn't do anything at all. I made sure I got feedback every day from his teacher about how his day had gone and he was absolutely for the high jump if there had been problems. Conversely, I really rewarded him if he had done well. I also bought lots of social story books and laid it on thick teaching him how he should be behaving socially and strategies to deal with problems in better ways.

He is on the spectrum so I know very well that his behaviour was anxiety driven, but that didn't mean it was ok to ignore it and feel sorry for him. He is now in Y2 and thriving.

I am a specialist ASD teacher (and was long before DS was born) so maybe have the confidence to be a bit more hard line, but I wouldn't say you were doing your DS any favours by thinking it's not something you can address at home.

[Ifonlyoneday]

The glue ear may have returned if he has had a cold or infection over the winter. Grommets hav made my little one return to her normal self.

[bojorojo]

Good detective work Alexander!

Is this your school op - or is the practice spreading? I was a perfect parent - haha! But I think it is demeaning. What do they do if a parent cannot read, is in prison or has MH issues? Say you're a bum parent!

[AlexanderBerry]

I'd never heard of parents being graded but found this
www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/12/02/school-grades-parents-support-childrens-education/amp/?client=ms-android-samsung

[bojorojo]

I am utterly shocked at a school grading parents. In fact the grading altogether is so "private school". Dreadful.They should be telling you about progress. Admittedly lack of it is a topic for conversation but working with the school to see what the barriers to learning are is important for his well-being. I get a strong feeling this school just is not right for him. However, as I said earlier, the NC is the NC but pushing it too early seems very counter productive if a child is not ready to learn in this way.

I think behaviour does lead to social exclusion, of the child and the parent. It would worry me that parents are not likely to be accommodating if they want this "academic" environment. However I cannot see how that goes with a noisy classroom. With 28 children, this shouldn't be the case. It should be purposeful. I think I would swerve parents' evening. You will not learn anything you don't know in 10 minutes! Try and go for a personal appointment.

Identifying the triggers are key in my view. I would also ask if he can get more attention from the TA. The school will be terrified of parental complaints so trying to help him stay calm in the classroom is important. Can he articulate how he feels when it goes wrong for him? When I used to work in education, we had nurture groups for children like this.They had controlled play in a separate unit - part time. Does your school know of any facility like this? Also see if the school has put him on their EP list - assuming they access EP services.

I do hope life gets easier!

[mummytime]

The glue ear may not have just cleared up, but just be a fluctuating thing. On the other hand it is highly possible that he is very sensitive to noise and now he can hear it's causing him real problems.

And school can do thing to help. A big one is giving him permission to escape if it gets too loud, giving him quiet time after noisey activities, letting him into the dinner hall early (or packed lunches if eaten elsewhere). Talk to the teacher and the SENCO, in a proper meeting, and see what you can all do to help him.
Sometime foam earplugs can help too.