Can school do this?

[lljkk]

Not my child, can't think I can do anything about it, but think I have read stuff about this type of situation on MN. It's niggling at me.

Friend has a 5yo DS who is very uncooperative in class (yr1). So he only goes part time. Basically I think he goes when school can spare an adult to mind him 1-to-1, or if his mom or an older sibling comes to mind him. So he goes for limited hours every day, which I think is maximum 3 hrs/day.

Don't ask me further questions, I don't know more specifics. Except I have strong impression the lad isn't distressed, shouty, violent or risk to anyone or property. Quite bright, maybe. The mom says she has no problems making him mind at home. She has a lot of other (very well-behaved) children.

Is this completely pants of the school that they can't do anything to provide the 5yo lad with more hours in school? What could they do instead?

[enterthedragon]

From our own experience this is what our DS' old mainstream school tried to do, without any prior discussion or advice from the LEA or professionals the subject was brought up in an interim review in front of the LA SEND department manager by the HT. SEND dept manager was not impressed and actually told me after the meeting was over that I did the right thing, that my son was entitled to an adequate full time education and that is what he would get, somewhere else.

[cuntycowfacemonkey]

Parent partnership aren't independant so ime only spout the party line of the LEA, which often bares no resemblance to actual SEN law.

[cuntycowfacemonkey]

www.ipsea.org.uk/what-you-need-to-know/exclusion-from-school

[weirdsister]

The school called your friend when he needed changing!? It gets worse.

[MissRabbitHasTooManyJobs]

This happened to my friends ds a few years back. He was already on the autism pathway and it was decided that he wouldn't be able to cope full time( they were right )

Also he was not toilet trained and school would call my friend if he needed changing!

Halfway through reception it was mutually agreed that her ds would cope better at a school nearby that could cater for his needs and he now attends that and is extremely happy and settled and so is my friend.
The school would not have just decided to do this. I think your friend knows more than you realise.

It's not a decision taken lightly and will have had input from your friend too.
Just imagine if the school said the same about your dc and there were no obvious concerns or issues, you would be up in arms about it, like I said before this has probably been spoken about for a while and given lots of thought. It's not the norm.

[AugustaFinkNottle]

Reduced timetables are indeed illegal unless, as pp say, they are very short term and part of a phased return to full time education. The fact that parents consent makes no difference to that. If they are necessary because a child isn't coping in school, then the school should be taking urgent steps to get advice and support from the local authority, and the local authority should be putting in place home tuition to ensure the child still receives the equivalent of full time education.

[Devilishpyjamas]

My son had a statement specifying full 1:1 in reception for autism. He was full 1:1 in mainsteam.

When he went to an SLD school that was dropped as a specification (although he usually had it). His needs then increased and he now has 2:1 full time. So yes he has 2 TA's with him the whole time.

School (special) did the work to get the 2:1, I did the battle for 1:1 in mainstream.

He wouldn't have been remotely safe in a mainstream school without 1:1 and he now needs 2:1 to access a suitable curriculum. Support given is based on needs which often have to be evidenced and often involve a battle (although tbh the 1:1 was easy to get & the 2:1 was nothing to do with my efforts, although it took longer than it should have).

It's just not accurate to say children never get 1:1 or 2:1 - if they need it you can get it.

[enterthedragon]

IPSEA and SOS SEN have great advice on their sites, and have model letters (downloads) that parents can use. IPSEA have a bookable callback service for more specific advice and information.

I've never been able to get through to SOS SEN, but I am told that they offer good advice.

[enterthedragon]

OP, look up your local authorities local offer (eg Bradford local offer) on the website you will find details for your area's independent advice and support service (IASS) your friend needs to book an appointment with them and tell them what is happening, go with her if you can for support (btw you sound great) also on the local offer site should be the details of the LA inclusion officer talk to them too. Schools cannot make a parent accept a reduced timetable, so if your friend wants her child in school full-time then the school must do everything they can to support the child through their SEN budget, if the child needs more support than the LAs budget allows then the school has to provide evidence to support that ( which they can't do if the child is not in school) Parents and older siblings shouldn't be asked to go into school to support the child, it is the schools job to provide the support from their SEN budget.

If a school phones a parent and tells them to collect their child but does not provide the parents with a letter detailing why they have been asked to pick up their child, how to challenge the decision etc then it is an illegal exclusion. If a school says that a child is not coping in school and illegally excludes them then that in itself is evidence to support a request for an EHCP assessment.

A parent can put in a request for an EHCP assessment (giving reasons why they are asking for the assessment) the local authority has several weeks to decide whether or not to assess, part of that decision will be asking the school exactly what they are doing and deciding whether or not it is enough, then they must inform the parents of their decision.

1-1 support for primary children is not that unusual without an EHCP or statement of SEN, a diagnosis of SEN is not a prerequisite for extra support.

My own DS had 2-1 support for a portion of his time in mainstream education.

[Ditsy4]

Yes, I googled and found it too. It might be of some help OP.

[mrz]

Now IASnetwork

[mrz]

I think Parent Partnership has been scrapped and replaced it has in my area anyway

[Ditsy4]

In hindsight forget it because it is detracting from OPs thread.

OP I hope the child will soon be back in school fulltime. I'm sure school will be working towards this but your friend could ask for support from the Parent Governor. There used to be something called Parent Partnership that was in place to support parents but I don't know if it is still in place. I'm sure someone with more knowledge will be able to inform you about this.

[mrz]

We've provided 1-1 support fir pupils without them having a statement /EHCP from the school SEN budget

[Ditsy4]

Yes, ok but I would still be interested in children whose plans are are not supported by some type of medical evidence getting one in Reception and how they manage it. I've just spoken to a mum who is still struggling to get TA support for her child.

[mrz]

.

[weirdsister]

Children going into reception currently will have EHCPs not statements. Older children and young people may still have statements though.

[Ditsy4]

In that case I would be very interested in how they give a Statement to a child who has just come into Reception and what it is for?

[cuntycowfacemonkey]

I did read your post correctly and it's still not factually correct. It may be what one specific LEA tries to fob parents off with but it's not correct.

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

To be be legal, a reduced timetable would have to be very short term i.e. less than about 6 weeks, have a re-integration with it and be agreed by the parent. Otherwise it's probably an illegal exclusion whether she's agreed to it or not.

If she's not happy with it, she could insist that they fill out the correct paperwork for exclusion before she picks him up. That might focus their mind on their legal responsibilities a bit.

[Ditsy4]

If you read my post correctly ccfmonkey andDevilishpjs I said only those coming into school with a statement . Meaning children in Reception that arrive with 1:1 support have some medical support to their statement. If a child has been in an LEA nursery this might happen earlier.
If you know otherwise then your cc must have much more money than ours.
Other children can have 1:1 support in school once the school have gone through the process which takes much longer than it used to because the school needs to prove that it has tried various methods of action to support the child before the Educational Psychologist assesses the child.
Goodness your son is very lucky to have 2:1 I have never heard of any child having that much support even in the Special school. Do you mean two people are with him all the time?

As others have said OP your friend must have agreed to this and there will be a timetable supporting his integration back into full time education.

[Ferguson]

I was a TA, and often had 'difficult' children. I hadn't heard of IPSEA, unfortunately, but Yes - having looked at their web site, they should be able to suggest something.

[Devilishpyjamas]

Of course any child can have full 1:1 if needed. My son has full time 2:1 (& had full 1:1 from age 4). He doesn't have big medical needs (has some since January after developing epilepsy but his 2:1 predates that).

IPSEA are always very busy but worth talking to. Their website has a lot of information on as well.

[cuntycowfacemonkey]

Reduced timetables are illegal unless very temporary as part of a reintegration programme for a child whose not attended school for a long period of time. Even if parents are on board with it it's still illegal.

It's also complete rubbish that only children with a medical statement get 1:1 full time support.

OP I suggest you repost in SN section as you will get a lot of misinformation here. I agree that IPSEA should be your friends first port of call for advice.

[Devilishpyjamas]

If she needs further advice IPSEA would be a better bet than CAB