My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Primary education

Crouch End Haringey primary school shortage and admissions review by council

98 replies

JKemp · 27/11/2015 20:33

Apologies for the dull, geeky subject but it's pretty critical to us as a local family.

Particularly interested in the views of those living in Crouch End with personal experience of the primary school admission system. I'm local with a young child and am amazed that a problem this serious has persisted for so long.

The 2015 admissions data has just been released and for several schools the majority of places have gone to siblings (a number of whom don't live in the area), with last child offered distances shrinking again, particularly for Weston Park and Coleridge.

I would appreciate constructive ideas about how to fix the system. Particularly to feed into the council consultation, which closes in a few weeks: www.haringey.gov.uk/children-and-families/schools-and-education/school-admissions/admission-arrangements/consultation-school-admission-arrangements-201617.

The proposal by the council wouldn't appear to make any impact until about 2020, which is way too long and totally ignores the plight of the local community in the interim, who pay local council tax and require school places this and next year.

Transitional arrangements need to be developed as a priority.

Gaming the system has been long reported (some links below) - by official data most of the children should live within c5mins walking distance of most schools, which begs the question why do so many travel in by bus and car?

Local short term lettings of 'buy the right address temporarily before moving out again' is a buoyant business, which has been tackled in several areas but not sufficiently in Crouch End/ Haringey Council area. Perhaps more rigorous enforcement could be an answer? I think that in Hackney, a short term let address doesn't count if you still own your main home.

In any case, the official council line is that they would like to support vibrant local communities, which is great. Hopefully the solution to be adopted early next year will also deal with the immediate challenge as opposed to a partial fix over the medium term.

Links:
www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/revealed-the-legal-loophole-letting-pushy-parents-rent-the-best-state-school-places-8878941.html

www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/education/haringey_crack_down_on_families_who_move_home_after_secure_school_place_1_4262636

www.theguardian.com/education/2014/apr/11/primary-school-places-offer-day

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/2365792-Primary-school-place-shortage-in-Crouch-End-September-2015?trending=1

OP posts:
Report
starpatch · 24/04/2016 17:51

The crowland school one

Report
Plainflour · 24/04/2016 15:27

Which thread is that please starpatch?

Report
starpatch · 24/04/2016 15:07

There is a Haringey parent on another thread who has been allocated a school 2.6 miles away Shock

Report
Garriguette · 24/04/2016 06:46

Hmm we've had no hard copy letter from Haringey yet. Just saw our offer on the admissions site, which doesn't seem to offer this useful info. I am interested to know if the last distances offered have changed at all from last year, in which case I will give a bit more or less credence to being on the waiting list for some schools..

Report
JusticeforKatherina · 22/04/2016 14:40

Kiely it was a very obvious misclassification of a child under the admissions criteria. Forgive me for not wanting to give further details. I mentioned it to suggest the admissions stats are only correct as the local authority sees it for a very short period of time.

On the point of black holes, I live in what has previously been one of those areas but this year have been offered a school on distance criteria my child would have had no chance of getting in during the previous 3-4 years. I know of a few other families in a similar position. So I agree with the smaller/fewer black holes observation for this year as it affects my immediate area and the longer distance cut off for my local school reflects that.

But there are many other factors to consider so I think it's impossible to derive any trend from these stats alone.

Report
KielyKiely · 22/04/2016 08:24

What was the mistake Justice?

Report
Garriguette · 21/04/2016 21:47

Thanks for uploading Justice

Report
Rosebud05 · 21/04/2016 17:18

Indeed they could, but some of the reasons for not doing it ie that it unfairly disadvantages families living in temporary accommodation (who are already disadvantaged in multiple ways) are very valid.

Report
HowardsEnd · 21/04/2016 15:20

Indeed - but I think they COULD do it if they wanted to.

Report
Rosebud05 · 21/04/2016 13:50

It's easier to change the admission criteria for a single church school Howards. Much less easy for a whole borough worth of schools - see the posts above re Haringey's recent consultation.

Report
HowardsEnd · 21/04/2016 12:38

My children go to a v sought-after C of E school, with (now, years after we first applied) a teeny admissions radius. There was a disastrous year (3/4 years back) when loads of siblings didn't get in as a result of 'pew-jumping'; as a result the admissions criteria were massively tightened and changed so that

  • sibling priority only applies if you live less than 0.5 miles away, in which case it trumps church
  • church attendance requirement increased four-fold (was 1/month for 1 yr, changed to 2/month for 2 years)

BOTH of these changes were brought in with very little notice, so that for a year it was impossible for parents to clock up the required attendance (a church register was introduced), as the clock had already started ticking before the guidelines had changed.
So I think that changes CAN be made very speedily: there WILL be pain (people's plans get disrupted) - but there's pain already, just for others.
Report
cgehansen · 21/04/2016 12:23

The furthest distances offered are higher this year than last so that's probably meant no 'black holes'. Last years' reception place shortage will move on to secondary transfer. Based on the reception admissions trend the last distance offered for Highgate Wood in 5 years time will be around 0.4 of a mile.

Report
Rosebud05 · 21/04/2016 12:02

Thanks. Yes. it's interesting how things vary so much year to year, largely sibling dependent I guess.

Report
JusticeforKatherina · 21/04/2016 10:55

Joining in having followed this thread with interest.

Does this help?

I know of at least one mistake on this (which has already been rectified). Anecdotally, from a very, very small sample size of local parents that I have spoken too, there appears to be more flexibility with places this year. I am, however, a bit further up the Hill in Haringey than the schools referred to earlier in this discussion so that may not be true for all the borough.

Crouch End Haringey primary school shortage and admissions review by council
Report
Rosebud05 · 21/04/2016 10:02

I'm interested to know this too. I don't think they officially get published until the admissions booklet for next year, so 1st September, but if anyone could upload a photo of the letter that comes with their reception offer which outlines the number of applicants/number of siblings/distance offers etc for Haringey I'd be grateful Grin.

Report
Garriguette · 21/04/2016 05:16

Talking of official numbers- Does anyone know when Islington or Haringey publish their primary offer day stats?

Report
LifeIsNeverFair · 21/04/2016 01:27

Just looking at the official numbers it looks better in general this year. I think last year was particularly bad. But the situation in the area is getting silly and there are changes to be put in place. 🙌

Report
What1984 · 20/04/2016 18:30

Interestingly, although its a couple of days after Offer Day I have not seen any postings here from people expressing concern about the place they have been offered in the Crouch End area, or indeed saying they do not have a place in the area at all.

Does this means things have improved this year?

Report
LifeIsNeverFair · 19/04/2016 19:29

sandyblack So I take it that you would have stayed in your current house had you not been expecting twins? Or was a move due to a sibling planned anyway?

In any case, whilst the proposal didn't go through, I understand that at least one primary school has abolished the sibling priority. That will stop the game playing. Around DC's school there are so many small flats/houses that change owners/tenants every 2-3 years. And for some reason the new owners/tenants older child is normally 2.5-3yrs old... Changing School is not something horrible and most children deal with changes brilliantly if the parents support them. Children make friends so easily.

It's ludicrous when you have a situation where a fair amount of children are being driven to school due to game playing, despite the catchment area being 0.3-0.4 miles and many children within 10-15 minutes walk being denied a place. I don't understand why it's better that local children suffer.

Report
JKemp · 18/04/2016 20:43

Congratulations! My personal view, which I put into my consultation response, was that half a mile would be too tough for many and that a mile would be fairer as well as special provisions for those really caught in cold economic waters (a mile radius opens up dramatically more potential to find an affordable place). That said, I live within spitting distance of a school and am unlikely to secure a space because the majority of places now go to siblings, which has created gamesmanship around local lettings. People like you need to be protected but there is need for balance in my opinion.

OP posts:
Report
Sandyblack · 18/04/2016 19:22

Our oldest is in a great primary school in the area but I have also found out I am expecting twins, which creates a real problem. We need a bigger house but will find it hard to buy in the exact same area in our price range. We are torn between staying put in a tiny house or moving and having to resettle somewhere else at a difficult time for our son, and goodness knows how he would get into a new school elsewhere if not in reception. So we are basically stuck in a two bed house with too many kids for the next four years. These rule changes would basically make it impossible to move.

Report
nlondondad · 15/01/2016 22:43

schoolme,

I think it has taken up until now for people to start to grasp the significance of Councils having a legal duty to provide places, while no longer having the power to open new schools.

Frankly, I think the problem is that the situation is so daft, (and ideologically driven) that people simply could not believe it is the case.

Report

Don’t want to miss threads like this?

Weekly

Sign up to our weekly round up and get all the best threads sent straight to your inbox!

Log in to update your newsletter preferences.

You've subscribed!

schoolmeplease · 15/01/2016 15:43

As someone pointed out on the other thread, one major problem is local authorities being responsible for providing places, but not controlling the opening of new schools! That's ridiculous.
And we should ALL stop talking about whether a school is "under the control of the LA" and start talking about whether the school "has the support of the LA". I've been a governor and chair of curriculum and attainment at an LA primary for years (NC just in case!) and I have NEVER seen the council be anything but supportive: governor services, safeguarding, support for hiring, template policies, you name it - we don't have to reinvent the wheel on all this, and no one ever tries to control us or any policy or teaching in the school - they support the school.
Let councils open schools. Fund schools. Drop the ideological "private sector is better" agenda. But certainly don't make a LA responsible for something over which it has very little control. With little funding.

Report
nlondondad · 15/01/2016 14:51

Weston Park mentioned on the BBC Local London news last night as an example of a small catchment.

Report
JKemp · 14/01/2016 14:30

Crouch End school places now a national issue. Call for decisive action from 'The Times':

Schools turn down pupils who live 100m away
The smallest catchment area is just 92m, according to data from the online service FindASchool

Ben Birchall/PA

Ben Birchall/PA
The smallest catchment area is just 92m, according to data from the online service FindASchool Ben Birchall/PA

Nicola Woolcock Education Correspondent

Last updated at 12:01AM, January 14 2016

Ninety primary schools are refusing to accept pupils who live more than 300m away as Britain’s booming population pushes classrooms to crisis point.

The smallest catchment area is only 92m, according to data from the online service FindASchool. Middle-class parents moving near the most desirable schools to secure places for their children have forced local authorities to shrink their catchment areas.

The figures come on the eve of the deadline for parents to apply for ­primary school places for their four-year-olds this autumn.

About one in eight families is expected to miss out on their first-choice place for September. Separate statistics released by the New Schools Network today show that some schools had three times as many first-choice applications as places available.

www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/01044/inline_dc5cf3e8-ba_1044121a.jpg

The growing population has created intense competition for the most ­desirable schools. The number of births in ­England rose by almost 6,000 between 2011 and 2012 and net migration reached a record high of 330,000 in the year to March last year. First-generation immigrant families have a higher than average birth rate.

The average cut-off distance for all oversubscribed schools in England is 2.3km for primary schools and 4.8km for secondary schools.

However, 90 schools offered no places for children living further than 300m away, ­including three in Birmingham, three in Manchester, four in Bradford, four in Kent, two in ­Plymouth, two in Gloucestershire and 39 in London. Others have had to reduce catchment areas to about 100m.

Weston Park primary in Haringey offered places to pupils no further away than 120m this year; in the previous year Beech Hyde primary in Wheathampstead, Hertfordshire, had a cut-off of 103m; and Cromwell Junior and ­Infant School in Birmingham was restricted at 108m. Grasmere primary in Hackney had a cut-off point of 87m in 2014, but this grew to 240m this year.

The worst situation this year was at Fox primary school in Notting Hill, west London, which took no pupils ­living further than 92m away , the data showed . A studio flat next to the school costs £460 a week to rent and a three-bedroom house across the road is £1,150 a week. A one-bedroom flat ­nearby costs £800,000 to buy while a four-bedroom terrace house costs ­almost £4 million. The local authority is considering a lottery for places.

The Local Government Association said last year that it would cost £12 billion to provide the estimated extra 900,000 places needed in ­England’s schools in the next decade.

David Simmonds, the chairman of the association’s children and young people board, said: “We fear a tipping point could soon emerge when councils and schools can no longer afford the ­massive costs for the creation of places, nor find the space necessary for new classes.”

Previous research by the association suggested that councils were plugging a black hole of at least £1 billion, abandoning building projects, cutting back on school maintenance and borrowing money in order to pay for a school place for every child.

Academies, which control their own admissions, and local authorities, which run admissions on behalf of schools, are adopting a range of tactics to try to prevent sharp-elbowed parents with the deepest pockets from monopolising the best schools by buying the closest properties, often at over-inflated prices. These include lottery systems, abolishing sibling priority for those who move away and setting up priority zones.

The catchment area data was provided by FindASchool, a new service from 192.com for parents to research and understand their chances of getting a place at their chosen schools.

Ed Rushton, an economist, established the service after struggling to find relevant information on schools while moving house. He believes that tiny catchment areas are exacerbated by schools occasionally creating “bulge” classes to accommodate more pupils in a particular year. This leads to extra siblings competing for places a few years later.

“Forty-six per cent of schools in England and two thirds of schools in greater London are oversubscribed — all of the schools are filling up whether good or bad,” he said. “It’s slightly farcical to talk about having a choice.”

Mr Rushton advises parents not to pin their hopes on one school and to have a back-up plan.

A Department for Education spokesman said: “Despite rising pupil numbers, 95 per cent of parents received an offer at one of their top three preferred schools last year. We doubled basic need funding for new school places to £5 billion between 2011 and 2015, which helped to create half a million new school places.”

OP posts:
Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.