Should Descender letters (g j p q y) be joined or not

[Sunflower123456]

I have been taught to join all my letters, including descenders but the teacher's remark on my DD's school work book said 'We do not join descenders'. I don't understand why and why not.

[Bonsoir]

I agree that the teaching of penmanship is hit and miss in UK schools. In the Waterstones local to my parents in England I am fascinated to read the book reviews by local schoolchildren (several schools). So much awful handwriting! And for a piece of work designed for public display!

[AtiaoftheJulii]

I taught my kids to write at home. I showed them that there are variations for joining many letters, and let them choose their own way of doing things.

[drinkscabinet]

Different ways of writing join different letters. Of the descending letters I join all on the left but at the right on f, g, j, y, and z, but not on q or p. I wouldn't join b on the right either. b and p are obviously similar and joining those on the right looks awkward to me, I'm not quite sure why I don't join q and it makes me wonder if I was taught to not join any of the descenders but liked the loop generated when you link the other descenders so started doing it myself as a teenagers as an affectation.

[alexpolistigers]

What about writing numbers?

Do the children learn to do a straight line for a 1, or a line with another at an acute angle to it, etc?

The people I know who join up their writing also seem to do more with their numbers - loops on 2s, crossed 7s, etc.

[mrz]

Again it depends on the school. In general schools start from the simple for very young children so they dont cause confusion.

[chaiselounger]

Based in this, I have just told ds2 that we need to practice his letters this week. He seemed thrilled!! Not!

[Scarydinosaurs]

I think handwriting should match the individual child. I do intervention with children at secondary school with poor handwriting, and often I stop them joining descenders in order to make their handwriting legible.

[NotCitrus]

I was taught not to join, but by the time I was 13 I did. Conversely ds in Y1 is doing "hooks and flicks" on his letters and will be expected to join them together in Y2 - I was most confused to see on a report "ds is writing cursively" and the teacher explained this means making each letter in a way that enables joined-up writing - when I was young, cursive was just American for joined-up!

I was flabbergasted to hear ds had some of the most legible handwriting in the class - apparently this is because the neater writers have leapt into doing joined-up which makes things less legible, whereas ds does his letters in the way and the size he's told.

[Sunflower123456]

There are many writing styles :

www.tsroadmap.com/physical/handwriting/masculine-handwriting.html

www.tsroadmap.com/physical/handwriting/androgynous-handwriting.html

www.tsroadmap.com/physical/handwriting/feminine-handwriting.html

My style is the joined feminine cursive similar to the first one on the above web page.

Over the years, I found very few people (from school, college and work) write join letters. I winder why this is so.

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

Chaise, if you are going to practise handwriting based on this thread, I would make sure you have a copy of the school's handwriting policy. It can sometimes be found on the website. Otherwise, you run the risk of him spending next term undoing the practice you have just done.

[mrz]

Our pupils leave us in Y6 with excellent handwriting (according to advisors, visitors, inspectors and their secondary teachers) yet within a term revert to print as it's not reinforced in Y7 onwards. I saw the same with my own children when they left primary.

[FabulousFudge]

Tell the teacher that you'd prefer her to join these letters as you feel it's nicer and quicker. Ask if they can teach both and give children the option, so that they can begin to develop their own handwriting style.

[mrz]

Don't be surprised if you find the school says no we want your child to follow the school curriculum

[mrz]

www.hwtears.com/hwt/why-it-works/letter-style

[mrz]

www.paediatric-ot.co.uk/communities/0/004/008/141/760/images/4536082828.gif is very similar to my normal handwriting which is different to how I write in school.

[Scarydinosaurs]

Mrz that's really interesting- what sort of things do you do in your primary class to keep on top of handwriting, and what would you suggest we could do at secondary to provide continuity?

[mrz]

Every class has a daily (sometimes short ) handwriting lesson from reception where correct formation is taught and reinforced in every lesson. We have a school handwriting style (based on previous deputy head's handwriting) that is used by everyone including staff when writing comments in books.
Good presentation is an expectation in every piece of work no matter what subject and poor handwriting isn't accepted and always corrected.

[Scarydinosaurs]

Thanks, I'll have a think about how I can do more than just the intervention sessions we run at the moment. I feel like we help the very bad, but many that get overlooked because it isn't intervention terrible could be improved.

[Sunflower123456]

mrz that's an excellent way to teach children's hand writing, when there's an agreed style and all the teachers follow it as well. There was a part time teacher at the school, and she set our DD's writing backwards a few months, by telling her not to join letters.

Good hand writing is very important, even though we use keyboards more now. It tells how well the person is education and if he/she is conscientious or not.

[mrz]

As I said earlier our youngest children learn correct individual letter formation first and only move onto continuous cursive once this is mastered. We've tried joined from day one and found it didn't give good results for our pupils.

[lolalotta]

.

[FabulousFudge]

At our school, we would take the views of the parent into consideration and make adjustments within reason. If a parent wanted their child to join their descenders (and we didn't teach this as standard) then we would facilitate this.

It is worth asking for clarification and an explanation as to why they are not joined in KS1.

[Sunflower123456]

Handwriting is like accents. It depends on where you were taught, where you came from, and your personality. There's no one correct way of writing, but if children are taught to write clearly and legibly so others can read them then it's OK.

Poor handwriting could become a stumbling block at some stage, eg at an interview where some written answers are needed. An employer would likely to choose a person with good handwriting than one with a bad handwriting.

The same goes for grammar. It wasn't taught at my secondary school, and I had to learn it when my boss pointed out how bad my was. I'm glad grammar is being taught again.

[mrz]

I'm not sure that handwriting does depend on where you come from or where you were taught. It evolves over time and grows with us.
My handwriting in grammar school was very different to how I was taught in primary and very different to my adult handwriting.

What's important is that children are taught how to form letters correctly and the correct sequence of movements/directions to develop a fluent hand.